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IS GOING TO TAKE MY ADVICE AND. I KNOW I. KNOW. THERE'S NOTHING BETTER THAN SPACE. RIGHT? HERE.
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RIGHT? METRO TV WILL START IN 30S.[Call to Order]
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THIS IS A REGULAR MEETING OF THE METRO COUNCIL'S COMMITTEE ON COMMITTEES. TODAY[00:20:09]
IS TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 9TH, 2025. THE TIME IS CURRENTLY 4 P.M. THEREABOUTS. THIS MEETING IS[00:20:15]
BEING HELD PURSUANT TO KERA 61.826 AND COUNCIL RULE FIVE. A MADAM CLERK. CALL THE ROLL[Roll Call]
COUNCIL MEMBER. I'M THINKING OF THE ORDER. YES. COUNCIL MEMBER BACHON PRESENT. AND PRESIDENT ACKERSON, WE HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU. COUNCILWOMAN HAWKINS AND COUNCILWOMAN CHAPEL BOTH HAVE EXCUSED ABSENCES. OUR FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS NEW BUSINESS. THE FOLLOWING[Legislation assigned to APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE]
LEGISLATION WILL BE ASSIGNED TO THE COMMITTEES. ITEMS ONE THROUGH FOUR WILL BE ASSIGNED[Legislation assigned to BUDGET COMMITTEE]
TO APPROPRIATIONS. ITEMS FIVE THROUGH SIX WILL BE ASSIGNED TO BUDGET. ITEM SEVEN AND EIGHT[Legislation assigned to EQUITY, COMMUNITY AFFAIRS, HOUSING, HEALTH AND EDUCATION COMMITTEE]
WILL BE ASSIGNED TO THE EQUITY, COMMUNITY AFFAIRS, HOUSING, HEALTH AND EDUCATION COMMITTEE.[Legislation assigned to GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT/AUDIT AND APPOINTMENTS COMMITTEE]
WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY COUNCILWOMAN CHAPEL. ITEM NINE WILL BE ASSIGNED TO GOVERNMENT[Legislation assigned to LABOR AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE]
OVERSIGHT, AUDIT AND APPOINTMENTS. ITEM TEN AND 11 WILL BE ASSIGNED TO LABOR AND[Legislation assigned to PLANNING AND ZONING COMMITTEE]
[Legislation assigned to PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE]
ECONOMICS. ITEM 12 AND 13 WILL BE ASSIGNED TO PLANNING AND ZONING. ITEM 14 THROUGH 17 WILL[Legislation assigned to PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE]
BE ASSIGNED TO PUBLIC SAFETY. ITEM 18 WILL BE ASSIGNED TO PUBLIC WORKS. ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS REGARDING THOSE ASSIGNMENTS? OUR NEXT AND FINAL ACTION OF BUSINESS WILL[Pending Legislation]
BE PENDING LEGISLATION. MADAM CLERK, A READING OF ITEM NUMBER 19, A RESOLUTION AMENDING RULE 5.04 OF THE RULES OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL OF THE LOUISVILLE JEFFERSON COUNTY METRO GOVERNMENT REGARDING DEBATES AND EXPLANATION OF VOTES. MOTION. ITEMS BROUGHT BEFORE COUNCIL. THIS IS YOUR BABY. YOU'VE GOT THE FLOOR. WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF MY BABY, BUT YES, I DID SPONSOR THIS RULE CHANGE. EVERYBODY REMEMBERS. BUT A FEW MEETINGS AGO, WE HAD AN INSTANCE WHERE ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES ASKED TO EXPLAIN THEIR VOTE AFTER THE VOTING HAD STARTED. THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE TALKED ABOUT FOR QUITE SOME TIME. WE, AS A MATTER OF FACT, SORT OF IN A BIPARTISAN WAY, AGREED TO LIMIT OR CEASE DOING THAT ALTOGETHER.BUT THEN IT HAPPENED AGAIN. I DIDN'T MAKE A MAKE A POINT OF ORDER BECAUSE IT WAS JUST ONE PERSON. IT WASN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL. BUT THIS IS A PRACTICE THAT IS ACTUALLY EXPLICITLY, COMPLETELY BANNED IN ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER. THE ONLY REASON WE IN OUR RULES, I FOUND OUT AFTER THE FACT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO THE METRO COUNCIL CLERK'S OFFICE THAT WE HAVE A SPECIFIC RULE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE AFTER THE VOTING IS OPENED. I DO BELIEVE IN WHAT THIS ESSENTIALLY DOES, WITH ONE EXCEPTION, GOES CK TO WHAT ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDERS ARE THAT ONCE VOTING IS OPENED, NOBODY CAN SPEAK OR OPINE. THE CURRENT RULE ALLOWS NOT ONLY ACTUALLY FOR EXPLAINING YOUR VOTE, BUT IT ALSO ALLOWS FOR ANCILLARY MOTIONS, WHICH ARE THINGS LIKE TABLING OR REFERRING TO COMMITTEE SECONDARY MOTIONS, NOT AMENDING THE LAW, BUT ACTUALLY DOING THINGS WITH IT. AGAIN, SOMETHING THAT ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER DOES NOT CONTEMPLATE. THE REASON THIS IS SO PROBLEMATIC IS YOU CAN IMAGINE A SCENARIO WHERE IF WE GO BACK TO AN MANY YEARS AGO, THIS WAS MORE COMMON WHEN PEOPLE ARE REGULARLY EXPLAINING THEIR VOTE. IF DURING THE DEBATE I MAKE, YOU KNOW ANYBODY, COUNCILWOMAN CHAPEL MAKES A POINT ABOUT AN ORDINANCE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I'M IN DISAGREEMENT. I'M DISAGREEMENT WITH IT, AND I WAIT AND VOTE NO ON THAT ORDINANCE AND THEN MAKE MY POINT WHEN I'M EXPLAINING MY NO VOTE, I CAN MAKE POINTS. THAT ATTACK POINTS THAT COUNCILMAN CHAPEL HAS MADE. AND NOW SHE HAS NO ABILITY TO TO RESPOND TO THOSE COMMENTS. AND I AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT ROBERT'S RULES, THAT'S THE SORT OF FUNDAMENTAL REASON WHY, WHEN A VOTING OPENS, DEBATE CEASES AND THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY WHATSOEVER. THE WAY WE'VE WRITTEN THIS RULE CHANGE, IT WILL GO BACK TO THAT PROCESS WHERE ONCE VOTING IS OPENED, NO MORE DEBATE CAN HAPPEN, INCLUDING EXPLAINING YOUR VOTE. NO ANCILLARY MOTIONS CAN HAPPEN WITH ONE EXCEPTION, AND THAT IS EXPLAINING AN ABSTENTION. SO IF ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE VOTING HAS TO ABSTAIN AND THEY HAVE NOT YET STATED ON THE RECORD WHY THEY ARE ABSTAINING, THEY CAN THEN USE THAT PERIOD TO EXPLAIN THEIR ABSTENTION. BUT IN NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD THAT BLEED INTO THE CATEGORY OF DEBATING, BECAUSE BY DINT OF THEM ABSTAINING, THEY SHOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT THE CONTENTS OF THE LAW ANYWAY. SO IT DOES. I WILL SAY THIS DOES THEN REQUIRE, AND I THINK EVERYBODY DOES IT. YOU, MR. PRESIDENT, DO IT. THE COMMITTEE CHAIRS GENERALLY DO IT THAT BEFORE THEY OPEN THE VOTING, PAUSE FOR A MOMENT AND SAY, I DON'T SEE ANYBODY ELSE IN THE QUEUE. ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? AND YOU SORT OF WAIT A BEAT TO GIVE SOMEBODY THE OPPORTUNITY TO RAISE THEIR HAND. RIGHT. AND THE POINT IS THEY WANT AT THAT POINT EXPLAIN THEIR VOTE. THEY CERTAINLY CAN. BUT THEN DEBATE IS STILL OPEN. SO THIS WILL JUST CLOSE OFF THAT AVENUE THAT I BELIEVE CREATES AN UNFAIRNESS, WHERE PEOPLE CAN BRING UP
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ISSUES AND OTHERS WILL NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO ANSWER THOSE ISSUES, AND THAT'S IT. IT'S JUST A SIMPLE RULE CHANGE. OTHERWISE. THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT. ANYONE HAVE ANY ESTIONS ABOUT THIS? IF WE COULD REFER TO HOLLY HOPKINS, YOU MIGHT WANT TO CLARIFY. YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. YEAH, JUST A COUPLE THINGS. HOLLY HOPKINS WITH THE JEFFERSON COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. ONE OTHER MINOR CHANGE IS THAT WE TOOK OUT THE WORDS ROLL CALL. SO THIS WOULD APPLY TO BOTH ROLL CALL AND VOICE VOTES. SO TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IT APPLIES TO ALL VOTING. AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO THE SUPPLEMENTAL MOTIONS, THE LANGUAGE IS SUPPLEMENTAL MOTIONS IN THE ORDINANCE. AND THAT THAT WOULD APPLY TO ANY MOTION. SO I KNOW WE'VE SEEN A COUPLE OF TIMES ON THE FLOOR WHERE SOMEBODY HAS MADE A MOTION TO AMEND SOMETHING AND THEN SOMEBODY BEFORE THERE'S A VOTE ON THAT, SOMEBODY WANTS TO AMEND THE MOTION THAT'S AMENDING SOMETHING. AND I KNOW SOME COUNCIL CHAIRS, COMMITTEE CHAIRS. NO, NO, JUST LET'S DEAL WITH THE ONE FIRST. AND THEN IF YOU WANT TO AMEND THAT, IF IT PASSES THEN YOU CAN AMEND THAT MOTION. BUT RATHER THAN STACKING THEM FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, BECAUSE IT GETS CONFUSING FOR MEMBERS AS TO WHAT WHICH ONE, WHAT ARE WE VOTING ON KIND OF THING. SO SUPPLEMENTAL MOTIONS WOULD ALSO INCLUDE THOSE KIND OF STACKING MOTIONS AND WOULD REQUIRE VOTING ON THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR BEFORE YOU ADDED ANOTHER AMENDMENT TO IT. MY QUESTION, BECAUSE NOW THE QUESTION REGARDING THAT IS THIS IS IF AN AMENDMENT IS VOTED DOWN, LET'S SAY, FOR INSTANCE, WE START OFF AND WE SAY ABC. SOMEONE SAYS, I WANT TO AMEND AN AD D AND E. SOMEONE WANTS TO AMEND AND SAY, NO, NOT HOW ABOUT D AND G? WELL, THE PROBLEM IS IF WE'VE GOT TO VOTE ON D AND E, WOULDN'T THAT FORECLOSE? I MEAN THE POTENTIAL OF IF, IF THAT GETS VOTED DOWN BECAUSE THERE'S CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS THAT DON'T AGREE WITH E, BUT LIKE D PART D WOULD NOT PART E, WOULDN'T THAT PROHIBIT US FROM THEN MAKING A POTENTIAL SUBSEQUENT MOTION TO AMEND THAT WOULD INCLUDE D AND G THAT MIGHT PASS. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I THINK I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THE D'S AND G'S, AND HE'S GOT ME CONFUSED. BUT I THINK THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS NO, IT WOULD NOT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A SEPARATE, DIFFERENT MOTION. BECAUSE THE THING THAT GOT VOTED DOWN WAS THE COMBINATION OF D AND E. OKAY. YEAH. AND CAN I, MISTER CHAIR THE. YEAH. JUST TO BE CLEAR, THIS ALL OF THE AMENDMENTS IN HERE REFER TO ONCE THE VOTING IS STARTED. RIGHT. SO ALLOW ME TO READ THE PORTION JUST TO CLARIFY. RIGHT. SO MEMBER DEBATE 5.04, WHICH IS THE RULE SECTION IN ORDER FOR MEMBER TO SPEAKER DEBATE, WE'RE NOT CHANGING ANY PROCEDURE RELATED TO SPEAKING OR DEBATING. THERE'S A PART ABOUT TWO MEMBERS SEEKING RECOGNITION AT THE SAME TIME. WITHOUT OBJECTION SECTION. THEN IT SAYS, QUOTE, THIS PART IS NOT CHANGED.I'LL TELL YOU WHEN IT CHANGES. WHENEVER THE SUBJECT OF THE MOTION HAS BEEN DISCUSSED AND CONSIDERED AND VOTING, WE CHANGE THAT FROM ROLL CALL TO VOTING. SO IT SAYS AND END CONSIDERED. AND VOTING HAS BEEN STARTED. OKAY, THERE SHALL BE NO FURTHER DISCUSSION OR DEBATE PERIOD THERE. THERE WAS AN ADDITIONAL SENTENCE THAT SAID, EXCEPT THAT MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL MAY BE ALLOWED TO EXPLAIN THEIR VOTE OR PROPOSE SUPPLEMENTAL MOTIONS THAT HAS BEEN STRICKEN. AND NOW IT READS, NO SUPPLEMENTAL MOTIONS MAY BE PROPOSED. AGAIN, ONLY AFTER VOTING HAS BEEN OPENED, BEFORE VOTING HAS BEEN OPENED. FAIR GAME. RIGHT. AND IF THE CHAIR.
TO BE CLEAR, ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDERS ALLOW FOR TWO LEVELS OF AMENDMENTS YOU CAN AMEND ONCE, AND THEN IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT AMENDMENT, YOU CAN AMEND THE AMENDMENT RIGHT. ONCE YOU GET PAST THAT, THEY SORT OF SAY STOP BECAUSE IT GETS CONFUSING. YOU GOT TO GO DOWN A LEVEL AND COME BACK UP A LEVEL SO WE CAN STILL DO THAT. A LOT OF HOLLY'S POINT IS SIMPLY A LOT OF CHAIRS OPT NOT TO PLAY WITH THAT GAME OF STACKING AMENDMENTS, AND THEY JUST STAYED AT ONE LEVEL.
BUT NONETHELESS, WITH THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN, IS IT SIMPLY REMOVING ALL MOTIONS AFTER VOTING HAS OPENED? SO BEFORE VOTING IS OPENED, HAVE AT IT. WE'RE INTO ANY MOTION, ANY AMENDMENT YOU WANT. AND THEN IT SAYS SO IT SAYS NO SUPPLEMENTAL MOTION TO BE PROPOSED. AND THE OTHER THING WE ADDED IS, QUOTE, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL MAY NOT EXPLAIN THEIR VOTES, BUT ANY MEMBER ABSTAINING FROM THE VOTE SHALL EXPLAIN THEIR REASONS FOR SUCH ABSTENTION. PERIOD. THIS ALL BOILS DOWN TO WHEN WE'RE WHEN WE'RE TAKING THE VOTE. NO MORE TALKING UNLESS YOU'RE
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EXPLAINING EXACTLY, MR. PRESIDENT. YEAH, THIS IS ALL RELATED TO ONCE VOTING IS OPEN, THERE'S ONLY ONE THING WE CAN DO VOTE. AND THEN IF SOMEBODY'S ABSTAINING, THEY CAN EXPLAIN THEIR ABSTENTION. IF THEY HAVE NOT DONE IT ALREADY, THAT'S IT. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? NO. YEAH.MIKE IS ON. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS? THIS REQUIRES A ROLL CALL VOTE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE, AYE. ANY OPPOSITION HEARING? NO OPPOSITION THAT PASSES AND SHALL BE SENT TO OLD BUSINESS. CORRECT. OR IS THAT AMENDMENT. BUT THAT'S UP TO YOU. DO YOU WANT THIS TO BE DISCUSSED? THE RULE WOULD NEED TO BE DONE BECAUSE YOU STILL DO TWO THIRDS ON A CONSENT. SO AGENDA CONSENT CALENDAR. OKAY. IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO PULL IT, THEY CAN PULL IT. ALRIGHT. WE HAVE NO FURTHER BUSINESS BEFORE US. SO AT THIS POINT WE'RE ADJOURNED. YES,
[Adjournment Note: Agendas are followed at the discretion of the Chair. While an item may be listed, it does not mean all items will be heard and/or acted upon by the Committee.]
MA'AM. THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE AGREEMENT.* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.