[00:33:38] YEAH, THAT'S OUR TV. 30S. [Call to Order] [00:34:09] GOOD AFTERNOON TIMES 4:06 P.M. THIS IS A REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY [Roll Call] [00:34:16] COMMITTEE. I'M YOUR CHAIR, DAN SYME, AND I'M JOINED BY VICE CHAIR, COUNCILWOMAN TAMMY [00:34:22] HAWKINS. TODAY I'M JOINED BY FOLLOWING COMMITTEE MEMBERS BARBARA SHANKLIN, SHAMIKA [00:34:31] PARISH, RIGHT, IS ON VIDEO. GOT KEN HERNDON IN CHAMBERS. JONATHAN JOSEPH IS IN CHAMBERS. [00:34:42] ANTHONY PIAGENTINI. BETSY RUIZ, JENNY MULVEY WOOLRIDGE ARE HERE. AND WE ALSO HAVE. WHO'S THIS? DO [00:35:05] WE HAVE? ANYBODY? WE ALSO HAVE JP LEININGER IN. AND I WANTED TO MAKE A SPECIAL RECOGNITION TO [00:35:16] THREE GENTLEMEN THAT WE HAVE HERE FOR THEIR BOY SCOUTS, VINCENT BENNY AND EVAN BIAGGI. WHERE ARE YOU AT? VINCENT, BENNY AND EVAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. FOR PUBLIC SAFETY. WE GIVE YOU A HAND. THANK YOU. WE ALSO HAVE DOCTOR PAULA MCCRANEY. AND I'M SORRY, DOCTOR CLERK, WILL YOU PLEASE READ THE VIRTUAL MEETING LANGUAGE? THIS MEETING IS BEING HELD PURSUANT TO CARRY 61.826 AND COUNCIL RULE FIVE A READ IN FULL. I'M GOING TO GO. THANK YOU, MR. CLERK. WE HAVE FOUR ITEMS ON THE AGENDA THAT INCLUDE ONE DISCUSSION ITEM AND THREE PIECES OF LEGISLATION. PLEASE NOTE WE DISCUSS ITEMS NUMBER TWO AND NUMBER FOUR FOLLOWING THE SPECIAL DISCUSSION. ITEM NUMBER THREE WILL BE HELD IN COMMITTEE AND HEARD AT OUR NEXT MEETING. TODAY [1. ID 25-0336     VIOLENCE PREVENTION UPDATE – Amy Luttrell, Goodwill Industries of Kentucky, Inc. and Darleen Horton, Pivot to Peace/Goodwill Industries of Kentucky, Inc.] WE'RE JOINED BY AMY LATRELLE AND DARLENE HORTON WITH GOODWILL INDUSTRIES OF KENTUCKY. ALSTON. ALSO IN THE AUDIENCE IS EVAN BENITEZ. BENITEZ WITH THE OFFICE OF VIOLENCE PREVENTION. AMY AND DARLENE ARE HERE TO PROVIDE US AN OVERVIEW OF THE PIVOT TO PEACE PROGRAM. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND TITLE FOR THE RECORD. YOU MAY BEGIN IF YOU COME ON UP. HI, I'M AMY LUTTRELL, I'M THE PRESIDENT AND CEO FOR GOODWILL KENTUCKY. I AM DARLENE HORTON. I'M THE DIRECTOR OF THE PIVOT PEACE PROGRAM. ALL RIGHT. WELL GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY. COUNCIL MEMBERS, COMMITTEE MEMBERS. OCEAN NOW, OVP APPROACHED GOODWILL LAST YEAR TO ASK US IF WE WOULD CONSIDER MORE DIRECT INVOLVEMENT IN THE EFFORTS THAT WERE ONGOING TO ADDRESS THE VIOLENCE THAT LOUISVILLE HAS EXPERIENCED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. WE ALREADY WERE DELIVERING SERVICES TO ADULTS WHO HAD INVOLVEMENT WITH THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, AND ALSO TO YOUNG ADULTS WHO SOME OF WHOM HAVE HAD THAT INVOLVEMENT AND SOME WHO HAVE NOT. AND WE SAW A LOT OF OVERLAP IN THE PEOPLE WHO WE SERVED AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED OR MIGHT POTENTIALLY BE INVOLVED IN GUN VIOLENCE. WE ALSO HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS WITH ONE OF OUR SISTER, GOODWILL'S, UP IN SOUTH BEND, INDIANA, WHO HAD RUN A SIMILAR PROGRAM IN THAT AREA FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND DONE THAT SUCCESSFULLY. ALSO, REENA SHARP, OUR CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, HAS SERVED ON THE GOVERNANCE COMMITTEE OF GVI FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS. LIKE EVERYBODY, WE HAVE BEEN CONCERNED, VERY CONCERNED WITH THE LEVEL OF VIOLENCE IN LOUISVILLE. SO WE CONSIDERED THAT REQUEST SERIOUSLY AND WE ULTIMATELY DECIDED THAT WE SHOULD HONOR IT. I HAVE HEARD IT SAID THAT WE DID NOT WANT TO DO THAT WORK. A MORE ACCURATE STATEMENT WOULD BE THAT WE DIDN'T ASK FOR IT, BUT THAT WHEN WE WERE ASKED, WE WERE HAPPY TO HELP WITH IT, BECAUSE WE DID BELIEVE THAT WE COULD DO A GOOD JOB WITH THE PROGRAM. WE SELECTED DARLENE HORTON, WHO HAD WORKED WITH GOODWILL BEFORE TO LEAD THE PIVOT TO PEACE PROGRAM, AND DARLENE STARTED IN THAT ROLE IN LATE SEPTEMBER, AND THEN ALSO MARILYN ROBERTS. I'M SORRY, MELVIN ROBERTS, WHO WAS IN A DIFFERENT ROLE WITH US AS THE ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR FOR THE PROGRAM. AND MELVIN STARTED IN LATE OCTOBER. SO WE'VE BEEN VERY WELL PLEASED AT HOW DARLENE AND MELVIN HAVE HANDLED THE PROGRAM AND THE PROGRESS THAT WE'VE MADE IN JUST A FEW MONTHS THAT THE PROGRAM HAS BEEN OPERATIONAL. SO WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO DARLENE TO GIVE YOU ALL A GOOD PROGRESS REPORT ON PIVOT TO PEACE. DARLENE. SO THANK YOU ALL FOR HAVING US TODAY. THIS IS OPPORTUNITY THAT WE DO NOT TAKE LIGHTLY AS WE KNOW WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADVOCATING FOR PIVOT TO PEACE. AND THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR ALLOW US TO SHOW US OUR GREAT WORK THROUGH GOODWILL. I'M GLAD THAT YOU ALL CALLED US FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. SO PIVOT TO PEACE NETWORK IS MORE THAN JUST GOODWILL. PIVOT TO PEACE NETWORK CONSISTS OF FOUR ORGANIZATIONS, THAT IS GOODWILL. VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA, UOFL HOSPITALS, AND OFFICE OF VIOLENCE PREVENTION. FOR THE GOODWILL PART OF THIS CONVERSATION. THAT'S WHAT I WILL BE TALKING ABOUT. SO PIVOT TO PEACE FOR GOODWILL IS A COMMUNITY BASED ORGANIZATION THAT IS DESIGNED TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE. OUR GOAL IS TO PROVIDE STREET LEVEL INTERVENTION TO HELP WITH MEDIATION, RETALIATION, CONNECTING PEOPLE TO RESOURCES, AND RESOLVING [00:40:03] ONGOING THINGS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH GROUP OR GANG ACTIVITY. WITH THE HIGH RISK POPULATIONS WE SERVE IN THE FOUR LOCATIONS, WE'RE AT OUR FOUR LOCATIONS RIGHT NOW, WHICH I HOPE WE GET TO EXPAND, IS RUSSELL PARK, ALGONQUIN, TAYLOR, BERRY, AND NEWBURGH. AS OF NOW, WE HAVE BEEN BOOTS ON THE GROUND OFFICIALLY, PROGRAMMATICALLY DECEMBER 1ST, 2024. I KNOW SOME PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED, HEY, YOU ALL HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY A LITTLE BIT LONGER. THE FIRST THING WE DID WHEN WE STARTED THIS INITIATIVE WAS ACTUALLY STAFF AND RECRUIT. THAT WAS AROUND FROM OCTOBER TO JANUARY. STAFFING AND RECRUITING. IN NOVEMBER, WE SURVEYED OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND LET THEM KNOW THAT WE ARE ON OUR WAY AND WE ARE COMING DECEMBER. WE ARE BOOTS ON THE GROUND THAT IS IN RUSSELL, PARK HILL, TAYLOR, BERRY, ALGONQUIN, AND IN NEWBURGH. BY JANUARY, ALL OUR TEAMS WERE FULLY STAFFED. SO FOR THE BEGINNING PART OF THIS YEAR, 2025, WE FOCUSED ON TRAINING AND DEVELOPING, FOCUSED ON RELATIONSHIP BUILDING, DAILY OUTREACH, STREET LEVEL INTERVENTION, MEDIATION AND RESOURCE AND CONNECTING. IN FEBRUARY, WE'RE PROUD TO HAVE OUR PRESS RELEASE ANNOUNCING THAT WE HAVE JOINED THE PIVOT TO PEACE NETWORK. AND AS WE GO INTO JUNE, WE ARE FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY IMPACT, ESTABLISHING POSITIVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH AND MENTORING NEIGHBORHOOD ACTIVATIONS AND PIVOT TO PEACE PULSE CHECKS WHERE WE COME TO OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND ENSURE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND WE ARE HERE. WHEN WE HEAR THAT THERE HAS BEEN SHOOTINGS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS, AND WE WANT THEM TO KNOW THERE'S RESOURCES AND THINGS THAT WE CAN HELP WITH. WE ARE CONDUCTING MEDIATION AND WE ARE ESTABLISHING POSITIVE PRESENCES WITH THE BUSINESSES, THE LOCAL LEADERS, PARKS, COMMUNITY CENTERS AND IN THE COMMUNITY. I CAN TALK ABOUT OUR GOALS TOO, IF YOU WOULD LIKE. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? I DO, I'M OKAY. I KNOW VICE CHAIR HAWKINS, PLEASE. THANKS. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. I WANT TO FIRST GO BACK TO MISS AMY, THE PRESIDENT. I WANT TO SAY THAT I WAS THE ONE WHO STATED THAT. YOU SAID THAT YOU DIDN'T ASK FOR IT. THOSE WERE MY WORDS. AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU TOOK IT. RIGHT. SO, YOU KNOW, I JUST TODAY WANT TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, YOU ALL WERE GIVEN $1 MILLION. A LOT OF THE WORK THAT THE NONPROFITS WAS DOING WAS GIVEN TO YOU ALL. SO I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO KNOW. I HAVE A SERIES OF QUESTIONS. ONE OF THOSE QUESTIONS ARE AND I'LL JUST GO STRAIGHT INTO THOSE, WHAT MAKES A CLIENT OR A PERSON'S TEAM? HOW DO YOU INTERACT WITH HIGH RISK CLIENTS, AND HOW DO YOU TARGET THOSE HIGH RISK CLIENTS? GREAT QUESTION. SO FOR US, WE HIRE CREDIBLE MESSENGERS. THAT'S IMPORTANT. TO DO THIS WORK, A CREDIBLE MESSENGER HAS TO BE SOMEONE THAT THE COMMUNITY CAN RELATE TO AND UNDERSTAND. SO WE HIRE PEOPLE WHO WAS FROM THE COMMUNITY, PEOPLE WHO HAD SHARED EXPERIENCES, THAT OF SOMEONE WHO WHO ARE HIGH RISK, MEANING THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN GROUP OR GANG INVOLVED AT ONE POINT IN TIME, MEANING THAT THEY MAY HAVE SHARED TIME IN JAIL OR PRISON, MEANING THAT THE COMMUNITY KNOWS THEM AND THEY'RE TIED, WHETHER IT'S THEIR FAMILY TIES OR FRIENDSHIPS OR THINGS THAT THEY WERE DOING IN THE COMMUNITY. THAT IS THE MAIN PART OF A CREDIBLE MESSENGER THAT ALLOWS US TO BE EFFECTIVE. A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE PASSION TO DO THIS WORK. IN ORDER TO DO THIS WORK AS WELL, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RIGHT PEOPLE ARE IN FRONT OF THE PEOPLE WHO'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO RECEIVE THEM AND BE ABLE TO LISTEN TO THEM, SO THEY CAN CHANGE THEIR NORMS ON GUN VIOLENCE. OKAY. SO BASICALLY YOU LOOK AT THE SO THEY PUT THEIR THEY PUT THEIR. POLICE CHECK ON A RESUME OR BECAUSE WHEN THEY FILL IT. SO HOW DO YOU JUST HAVE A LENS FOR THEY UNDERSTAND THE WHO THE HIGH RISK CLIENTS ARE. THAT WAS ACTUALLY A PART OF THE INTERVIEWING PROCESS THAT WE ESTABLISHED THAT THAT THOSE ANSWERS. OKAY. SO HOW MANY REFERRALS HAVE YOU GUYS MADE TO VOA? AS OF TODAY, WE HAVE MADE 400, OVER 400 REFERRALS TO VOA. YOU SAID OVER 400. YES. OKAY. SO FROM THE REFERRALS SENT TO VOA, HOW MANY WERE HIGH RISK AND HOW MANY WAS REFERRED TO OVP? SO DO YOU MIND LETTING ME GO OVER WHAT QUALIFIES AS HIGH RISK SO THAT MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS. THANK YOU. SO THE TARGET [00:45:01] POPULATION FOR SOMEONE IS SOMEONE WHO'S HIGH RISK IS MEANING THAT THEY HAVE TO BE GROUP OR GANG INVOLVED. AND YOU HAVE TO HIT TWO OF THESE CRITERIA. LET'S JUST SAY THAT ONE, YOU HAVE TO BE A MEMBER OF A GANG OR GROUP KNOWN TO BE ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE. TWO THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE SAYING THAT THIS MEANS YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO BECOME A PART OF THE PIVOT TO PEACE NETWORK, AND WE'RE GOING TO START TO INTERACT WITH YOU IN A WAY OF GETTING YOU GROUP OR GANG DISENGAGED. TWO YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HISTORY OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, INCLUDING CRIMINAL CRIMES AGAINST PERSONS. YOU HAVE TO BE A LEADER, A CORE MEMBER OF A GANG OR GROUP ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE. PENDING OUR PRIOR ARRESTS FOR WEAPON OFFENSES. CURRENT OR PAST VICTIM OF A SHOOTING, CURRENTLY UNDER PROBATION, PAROLE OR OTHER COMMUNITY SUPERVISION, OR RECENTLY RELEASED FROM CUSTODY BETWEEN THE AGES OF 14 TO 35, WHICH WE HAVE ADJUSTED BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY, 14 IS NOT YOUNG ENOUGH AND 35 SOMETIMES IS NOT THE CAP, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE. AND THEN WE HAVE A PRIORITY. PRIORITY. PRIORITY IS SEEING THIS NEEDS TO BE HIGH CONSIDERATION IF WE ARE ENGAGING WITH THIS INDIVIDUAL. INDIVIDUALS ARE MEMBERS OF A GANG OR GROUP THAT IS ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN A CURRENT CONFLICT. RECENTLY SHOT ARE RELATED, ARE CONNECTED TO SOMEONE RECENTLY SHOT OR KILLED, KNOWN TO BE A REGULAR CARRY OF A GUN, AND HIGH PROBABILITY TO PARTICIPATE IN RETALIATORY ACTIONS. OKAY, I'M SORRY, I MAYBE MISUNDERSTOOD THE QUESTION. I THINK EVERYBODY HERE IS FULLY AWARE OF WHAT A GANG MEMBER IS, IS WE WE'VE BEEN ON THE GANGS FOR A WHILE NOW, SO YOU DON'T. WE AIN'T GOTTA WASTE NO TIME WITH THAT. MY NEXT QUESTION IS HOW MANY? HOW MANY INTERRUPTIONS OR MEDIATIONS HAVE YOU DONE PER SITE, AND HOW DO YOU ENSURE YOUR TEAM IS DOING THE WORK IN THE AREA THAT THEY'RE IN? I KNOW YOU SAID ALGONQUIN, RUSSELL, PARK HILL, JUST BESIDES CANVASING THE AREA AND HOW MANY FROM EACH NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU KNOW, OUT OF THE 400 AND SOMETHING, HOW MANY ARE YOU GETTING? SO WE CAN KIND OF TARGET WHAT AREAS? I'M SURE THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHICH AREAS ARE THE WORST. OKAY. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT ANSWER. AND SOME OF THAT I MIGHT HAVE TO REFER TO OUR PARTNERS LIKE OVP. WE TALK ABOUT REFERRALS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT YOU CAN ALWAYS GET BACK WITH ME. THANK YOU I APPRECIATE THAT. SO AS OF RIGHT NOW, YEAR TO DATE, WE HAVE 93 MEDIATIONS THAT WE HAVE DONE OVERALL THROUGH ALL FOUR SITES. RUSSELL IS LEADING AT 30 AND THEN PARK HILL MEDIATIONS IS AT 19, TAYLOR BERRY IS 29 AND NEWBURGH HAS HAD 15 MEDIATIONS. WITH THAT BEING SAID, OUR MEDIATIONS ARE SUCCESSFUL BASED ON THE CREDIBLE PEOPLE WHO WE PUT IN THE COMMUNITY. THE ESTABLISHED RELATIONSHIPS ARE BUILDING WITH THE COMMUNITY THAT WE'RE NOT ONLY IN THE COMMUNITY CANVASING EVERY DAY, BUT WE HAVE ESTABLISHED A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COMMUNITY WHERE BUSINESS OWNERS AND PEOPLE FROM THE COMMUNITY THEMSELVES, OR PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY A PART OF THE PROGRAM AS A HIGH RISK PARTICIPANT, ARE REFERRING PEOPLE AND SAYING, I THINK THIS IS ANOTHER PERSON YOU SHOULD REACH OUT TO. OKAY. WHAT HAPPENS AFTER YOU ALL REFER PEOPLE TO VOA? AS GOODWILL? WE ARE BOOTS ON THE GROUND. SO OUR WAY OF INTRODUCING SOMEONE TO PIVOT TO PEACE NETWORK IS TALKING TO THEM, BOOTS ON THE GROUND, ENGAGING WITH THEM EVERY DAY, DAY TO DAY, MEDIATIONS, RETALIATIONS. THE MOMENT THEY SAY THEY NEED SERVICES, THEY ARE REFERRED TO VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA, WHICH SOMEONE FROM VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA MAY WANT TO STAND UP AND ANSWER THAT QUESTION. NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO. I'M TRYING TO SEE WHAT GOODWILL IS DOING, BECAUSE THAT'S WHO WE GAVE THE MILLION DOLLARS TO. WE GAVE $1 MILLION TO VOA. SO ALL YOU ALL YOU BASICALLY DO IS JUST REFER CLIENTS TO VOA. IS WOULD YOU SAY? YES. AND I KNOW YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT HOUSING SO YOU DON'T HAVE A HOUSING OPTION. I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T KNOW I MENTIONED HOUSING. WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THE ACTUAL COMPONENT OF BARRIER REDUCTION, CASE MANAGEMENT WOULD BE ABLE TO WANT TO ADDRESS THOSE BARRIERS, WHETHER IT'S HOUSING, EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES LIKE THAT. WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THE MILLION DOLLARS, OUR MILLION DOLLARS, 94% OF IT, WHICH IS ALMOST ALL OF IT IS SALARY. WE HAVE 24 PEOPLE ON OUR TEAM AND ONLY 6% IS FOR OFFICE. SO THAT IS SAFETY UNIFORMS. SO OUR TEAM IS OUT THERE IDENTIFIABLE. THEY WORK FROM 1:30 P.M. TO 10:30 P.M. SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE COMMUNITY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE. AND IT IS DIGITAL EQUIPMENT SUCH AS PHONES, LAPTOPS, BUSINESS CARDS THAT CAN HELP PEOPLE GET IN CONTACT WITH US. THAT IS WHAT OUR BUDGET CONSISTS OF. OKAY, SO THE MILLION DOLLARS HAS BEEN SPENT ON STAFF, PHONES, COMPUTERS. JUST STUFF TO [00:50:04] IDENTIFY THAT YOU ALL ARE THERE, RIGHT? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. SO WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU ALL NEED MORE MONEY? IS HOW MANY STAFF DO YOU HAVE? IT IS 24 OF US AND YES, 24. AND SO IF THEY'RE SPLIT UP, ARE THEY SPLIT UP IN DIFFERENT AREAS? GREAT QUESTION. I'M SORRY, I'M CUTTING YOU OFF. I GET A LITTLE EXCITED ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS BECAUSE I'M SO EXCITED TALKING ABOUT PIVOT TO PEACE. SO GREAT QUESTION. YES, I WOULD LOVE MORE MONEY BECAUSE WE CAN BE EFFECTIVE AND WE CAN EXPAND. AND NO MATTER HOW LOW THE NUMBERS ARE GOING DOWN, IT COULD BE MISSED OPPORTUNITIES. IF YOU'RE NOT ADDRESSING THE AREAS THAT'S STILL UP THERE, THOUGH, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO OUR SITES, 20 PEOPLE ARE BOOTS ON THE GROUND OF THE 24. SO, SO NOT TO CUT YOU OUT. AND EACH SITE IS FIVE PEOPLE. OKAY. SO YOU CONSIDER BOOTS ON THE GROUND JUST GOING OUT AND JUST CANVASING GANG MEMBERS. RIGHT. SO YOU DON'T ALREADY HAVE A BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY LIKE WHO THESE GANG MEMBERS ARE OR YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT. I'M JUST TRYING TO YEAH, THAT IS OUR ROLE OKAY. TO GET EVERYONE TO PIVOT TO PEACE, IT IS OUR TEAM WHO HAS TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THEM, TO PIPELINE THEM, TO PIVOT TO PEACE. NETWORK. WHAT IF THEY'RE NOT IN THE AREAS, THE FOUR AREAS THAT YOU COVER? I FEEL LIKE MY HEART BREAKS EVERY TIME SOMEONE ASKS THAT QUESTION, BECAUSE AS OF NOW, AS OF NOW, WE ARE IN OUR FOUR AREAS THAT OUR GRANTOR HAS SELECTED FOR US BASED ON THE DATA THAT SHOWS THIS IS THE MOST HIGH RISK AREAS, OKAY. AND YOU GET YOUR DATA FROM FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND WE USE THE OVP DASHBOARD METRO DASHBOARD THAT WAS REFERENCED LAST WEEK IN THE BUDGET MEETING FOR OUR SOURCE OF DATA, THAT IVAN IS THE ONE WHO OVERSEES AND PUTS IN. OKAY. AND I THINK HE GETS HIS DATA FROM LMPD. I'M NOT QUITE SURE. I KNOW WE HE HAS A SALARY WITH USED TO BE OCEAN TO DO DATA AND FOR SOME REASON THAT DATA JUST WASN'T IT WASN'T IN MY SATISFACTION. DO YOU ALL DO ANY RELOCATION AT ALL. SO IF YOU HAVE A GANG MEMBER THAT IS ACTIVE AND YOU KNOW HE NEEDS TO GET OUT OF HER, FAMILY'S NOT SAFE, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, HOW DO YOU, YOU KNOW, DO YOU LOOK INTO RELOCATING THAT FAMILY? SO AS I RODE FOR GOODWILL, LIKE I SAID, BOOTS ON THE GROUND, WHEN WE MAKE A REFERRAL AND WE TELL THE REFERRAL, WE TELL OUR VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA, AND NOW WE'RE SETTING IT UP WHERE WE CAN EXPEDITE THAT TO OVP AS WELL, TO SAY THAT THIS PERSON NEEDS X, Y, AND Z. IN THOSE CASES WE CAN INFORM. BUT BECAUSE OUR PART IS BOOTS ON THE GROUND AND WE DON'T WANT TO OVERSTEP ON THE WORK THAT OUR GREAT PARTNERS ARE DOING, WE'RE LIMITED TO THAT. WE DO NOT HAVE FUNDING OUTSIDE OF, AS I SAID. SO BASICALLY ALL YOU ALL DO IS JUST REFER TO OTHER RESOURCES, RIGHT? NO. RIGHT. FOR RIGHT NOW. JUST RIGHT NOW, THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO. SORRY. WHEN YOU SAY ALL YOU DO, I'M LIKE, I GOT AN AMAZING TEAM NOW. I MEAN, YEAH, OF COURSE YOU HAVE A GREAT TEAM. I'M VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS WORK. RIGHT. OKAY. SO I AM BOOTS ON THE GROUND. YES. SO I CAN SPEAK TO IT. YES, MA'AM. SO WHEN I SAY THAT, I MEAN, I'M JUST THINKING $1 MILLION. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, I'M, I MEAN, I AIN'T I'M JUST WONDERING, LIKE $1 MILLION, 24 PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, LIKE, AND THE GANG VIOLENCE AIN'T REDUCING. SO I'M LIKE, WHAT'S UP? SO. SO I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE. I FEEL LIKE I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S NOT WORKING. I'M JUST SAYING EITHER YOU NEED MORE MONEY OR YOU NEED A BROAD, A BROADER RANGE. I'M JUST KIND OF LOOKING AT IT AS IT BEING A REFERRAL SOURCE, AND IF THAT'S WHAT IT IS, THAT'S WHAT IT IS, SO CAN I INTERJECT AND ASK OKAY. SO THANK YOU I APPRECIATE IT. SO I WANT TO SAY THIS AND THEN I'M GONNA ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. SO JUST GIVE ME A COUPLE MINUTES. AND I PROMISE YOU I WILL EXPLAIN WHY I SAY BEING BOOTS ON THE GROUND IS THE MOST CRITICAL ROLE FOR THIS POSITION, BECAUSE WE WERE BOOTS ON THE GROUND. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU PEOPLE'S NAMES FROM OUR GROUP. TANISHA WAS ABLE TO HELP A GIRL WITH HER PROM NEEDS BECAUSE WE WERE BOOTS ON THE GROUND. THOMAS HELPED A YOUNG MAN GET HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE, DRIVER'S LICENSE, EMPLOYMENT. ANTONIO HELPED TWO PEOPLE FIND HOUSING. SEAN HELPED SOMEONE GET REHAB. DAVID HELPED CLIENTS GET THEIR CNA TRAINING. GREG HELPED CONNECT PEOPLE TO ANGER MANAGEMENT. JAMAR WAS ABLE TO DISENGAGE TWO PEOPLE FROM THE STREETS. BEVERLY HELPED REUNITE A RUNAWAY TO HIS PARENTS. DAVID HAD CLIENTS GO INTO SCHOOL FOR THEIR CDL. WE HAVE HELPED PEOPLE WITH EMPLOYMENT. WE HAVE HELPED PEOPLE FIND DIFFERENT OPTIONS BECAUSE WE ARE BOOTS ON THE GROUND. IT IS OUR CREDIBLE MESSENGERS, ALONG WITH THIS AMAZING PARTNERSHIP THAT IS ALLOWING PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT WE WILL MEET YOU WHERE YOU'RE AT, AND WE CAN BRING YOU TO WHERE YOU NEED TO BE. SO IT SOUNDS SIMPLE. WE'RE ON THE GROUND, BUT [00:55:06] EVERY DAY THEY'RE OUT THERE IN THE MOST HIGHEST RISK AREAS, AS IDENTIFIED BY THE DATA, TO SAY, I WANT TO HELP YOU SAVE YOUR LIFE AND GET YOU ON THE PATH THAT IS TO YOUR FULLEST POTENTIAL AND NOT LIMIT YOU TO HAVING A GUN IN YOUR HAND. SO IT'S A LOT MORE TO THAT TO ME WHEN YOU SAY THAT. SO. THANK YOU. FOR THE RECORD, COUNCIL MEMBERS, SHAMIKA PARISH, RIGHT, AND DONNA PURVIS HAVE JOINED US AND COUNCILMAN KEN HERNDON. YES, SIR. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. I HAVE A QUESTION. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH RENA SHARP ABOUT HOSTING THIS YEAR'S GUN VIOLENCE SUMMIT AT THE GOODWILL OPPORTUNITY CENTER AT 28TH AND BROADWAY. THAT'S PUT ON BY FORMERLY OCEAN NOW OFFICE OF VIOLENCE PREVENTION. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE STATUS OF THAT IS? THE ONLY THING THAT I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THE STATUS IS THAT WE HAVE COMMUNICATED THAT WE'RE WILLING TO HOST IT IF THAT'S WHAT'S DESIRED. AND WE THINK THAT THAT'S IT'S DOABLE, AND WE'D BE VERY HAPPY TO HAVE IT THERE. OKAY. THANK YOU. I HAVE A MEETING WITH THEM TOMORROW MORNING. I JUST WANT TO GET THE MOST RECENT OPINION FROM YOU GUYS. I'LL FOLLOW UP. THANK YOU SO MUCH. YEAH. YOU. I DON'T SEE ANY MORE PEOPLE IN THE QUEUE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. THANK YOU. CLERK. WOULD YOU PLEASE READ ITEM NUMBER TWO INTO THE RECORD, PLEASE? AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTIONS 123 .01 THROUGH 123 [2. O-087-25     AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTIONS 123.01 THROUGH 123.06, AND SECTIONS 123.32, 123.35, 123.37 AND 123.99, AND CREATING A NEW SECTION OF CHAPTER 123 OF THE LOUISVILLE METRO CODE OF ORDINANCES (“LMCO”) REGARDING REGULATED PROPERTY AND RESTRICTED METALS. (AMENDMENT BY SUBSTITUTION) 5/7/25 Public Safety Committee Amended; Tabled 4/16/25 Public Safety Committee Held Action Required By: September 27, 2025 Sponsors: Kevin Kramer (R-11) ] .06. SECTIONS 123 .321, 23.35 ONE, 23.37 AND 123 .99 AND CREATING A NEW SECTION OF CHAPTER 123 OF THE LOUISVILLE METRO CODE OF ORDINANCES REGARDING REGULATED PROPERTY AND RESTRICTED METALS. AMENDMENT BY SUBSTITUTION. READ AND FOLD. SECOND, THAT HAS BEEN PROPERLY MOVED AND SECONDED. COUNCILMAN KEVIN CRAMER IS THE SPONSOR OF THIS ORDINANCE. YOU HAVE THE FLOOR, SIR. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS. I NEED THE OPPORTUNITY. IF YOU LOOK THROUGH THE WHEREAS STATEMENTS, THERE ARE SIX OF THEM. THE LONG AND THE SHORT OF IT IS THIS WE HAVE SEEN A DRASTIC INCREASE IN THEFT OF WIRE, SPECIFICALLY TELECOM WIRE AND WIRE FOR LIGHTING ALONG OUR EXPRESSWAYS. THERE ARE CERTAIN CERTAIN PARTS OF OUR COMMUNITY WHERE YOU DRIVE DOWN THE EXPRESSWAY, AND THERE ARE NO THERE ARE NO FUNCTIONING LIGHTS. YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE STREET LIGHTS EXIST, BUT THE LIGHTS AREN'T ON. AND THAT'S BECAUSE FOLKS ARE PULLING UP, OPENING THE ALUMINUM DOOR, HOOKING TO THAT WIRE, CUTTING IT FROM THERE, DRIVING IT A LITTLE BIT, CUTTING IT, AND THEN JUST LITERALLY PULLING IT OUT WITH THE TRUCK AND TAKING IT IN FOR RECYCLING. IT IS VALUABLE. AND AS MUCH AS YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS A IT IS A COMMODITY THAT THAT HAS A SALE PRICE. THE ALONG WITH THE FACT THAT THAT THIS IS THEFT, THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT SAFETY ISSUES HERE. THEY'RE NOT ONLY TAKING WIRE THAT THAT ALLOWS FOR LIGHTING, THEY'RE ALSO TAKING TELECOM WIRE, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY'RE CUTTING SERVICE FOR YOU AND I WHEN WE WANT TO TALK TO OUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEY'RE MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR FOLKS TO CALL 911 OR GET ANY KIND OF SERVICE WHEN THEY MIGHT NEED IT AT THE SAME TIME. THAT'S TRUE. WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT NOT ONLY ARE THEY, NOT ONLY ARE FOLKS CUTTING THESE THESE WIRES TO SELL THEM AND RECYCLING BECAUSE THE WIRES ARE HANGING ON POLES VERY NEAR OTHER KINDS OF WIRE, THEY'RE ALSO CUTTING FIBER OPTIC CABLE. AND WHEN THEY CUT FIBER OPTIC THAT THAT CUTS TELECOMMUNICATIONS FOR THE INTERNET, FOR PHONE, FOR YOU NAME IT, IT'S NOT UNCOMMON THAT THEY WILL CUT THE FIBER OPTIC, RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S NOT WHAT THEY WANTED, AND LITERALLY LEAVE THAT SITTING ON THE GROUND RIGHT NEAR THE POLE. IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE. IT'S ALSO, AS I SAY, SAFETY ISSUE AND QUITE DANGEROUS. AND SO THE WHEREASES EXPLAINED WHY THIS WAS NECESSARY, HOW WE ENDED UP IN THIS PLACE. I WILL SAY FROM THE UP FRONT THAT I'VE REACHED OUT TO BOTH THE TELECOM INDUSTRY TO KYTC, WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE LIGHTS, AND THEN ALSO REACHED OUT TO THE RECYCLING INDUSTRY. UNDERSTANDABLY, IF YOU ARE IN THE RECYCLING INDUSTRY, THESE ADDITIONAL REGULATIONS MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO FUNCTION. AND I THINK AS WE MOVE INTO THE CONVERSATION, WE SHOULD NOT LOSE TRACK OF THAT, RIGHT? WE'RE REGULATING AN INDUSTRY WHO'S NOT CAUSING THE PROBLEM, BUT BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT THAT THE SALE WORKS, YOU'VE GOT FOLKS WHO ARE BREAKING THE LAW AND THEN THEY'RE TAKING THIS MATERIAL THAT IS STOLEN GOODS, AND THEY'RE SELLING STOLEN GOODS TO RECYCLERS. THE RECYCLERS [01:00:04] DON'T WANT THE STOLEN GOODS, BUT THEY DO WANT THE RECYCLABLE, RECYCLABLE GOODS. AND SO IT'S A CHALLENGE FOR THEM. I GET IT. IF THERE WERE A DIFFERENT WAY TO DO THIS, WE'D HAVE A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION. SO AND AGAIN, LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR IN ALL OF MY CONVERSATIONS WITH THE RECYCLING INDUSTRY, THEY UNDERSTAND THIS, RIGHT? THERE'S NOT A THERE'S NOT THIS SENSE THAT THAT YOU GUYS ARE JUST PICKING ON US. THEY THEY DON'T WANT TO BUY IT EITHER. SO WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO ADD REGULATIONS THAT CAPTURE WHAT WE NEED TO CAPTURE, BUT THAT AREN'T ONEROUS FOR THE RECYCLING INDUSTRY. I WILL JUST SHARE WITH YOU AND WE'LL GO THROUGH A BIT OF IT. BUT ONE OF THE DEEPEST CHALLENGES WAS, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A CONVERSATION AROUND FERROUS AND NON-FERROUS METALS, AND I WANTED TO STRIKE SOME OF THE LANGUAGE, OR I WANTED TO ADD IN AND MAKE CERTAIN THINGS EXEMPT. THE PROBLEM IS, IF I MAKE NON-FERROUS METALS EXEMPT, THEN ANYTHING ELSE I DID WITH WIRE GOES AWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT'S NON-FERROUS. I LEARNED THAT THROUGH THIS PROCESS. THE OTHER THING THAT'S CHALLENGING, WE ASKED FOR AND SORT TRIED TO FIND A DEFINITION FOR TELECOM WIRE OR UTILITY WIRE OR, YOU KNOW, WIRE IN GENERAL THAT WOULD THAT WOULD IDENTIFY WHAT'S BEING STOLEN SO THAT WE COULD JUST REGULATE THAT. SO WE CAME UP WITH THE DEFINITION FOR INFRASTRUCTURE WIRE. THE REALITY IS THAT THE SAME WIRE THAT YOU WOULD USE TO LIGHT THE EXPRESSWAY LIGHTS IS THE KIND OF WIRING THAT A PERSON WOULD USE TO WIRE THEIR GRANDFATHER'S BARN. AND YOU CAN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE WHEN IT GETS TO THE RECYCLING ENTITY, RIGHT? THAT THERE'S NOT A WAY TO SAY, YOU CAN BUY THIS ONE, AND YOU CAN BUY THIS ONE WITHOUT REGULATION, BUT YOU CAN'T BUY THAT ONE. IT LOOKS THE SAME. SO UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT THAT MEANT IS WE HAD TO ADD REGULATIONS ON WIRE THAT WE REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO REGULATE. BUT THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO THE WIRE WE NEEDED TO GET TO WAS BY ADDING THAT REGULATION DOES THAT. I HOPE THAT MAKES SOME AMOUNT OF SENSE. SO HERE'S WHAT WE DID WITH THE ORDINANCE. AND I'LL I'LL HAPPILY TAKE QUESTIONS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IN THE ORDINANCE IS THE DEPARTMENT OF CODES AND REGULATIONS HAS CHANGED HIS NAME. THAT THAT HAS BEEN DONE CONSISTENTLY THROUGHOUT THE ORDINANCE. WE ADDED A DEFINITION FOR ELECTRICAL WIRE, HIGHWAY LIGHTING, WIRE, TELECOMMUNICATION, TELECOMMUNICATIONS WIRE. AND WE LUMPED THOSE ALL TOGETHER AND CALL THAT INFRASTRUCTURE WIRING. AND WE HAVE A DEFINITION FOR INFRASTRUCTURE WIRING. WE MADE THAT A REGULATED PROPERTY SO THAT IF AN INDUSTRY WERE TO PURCHASE THAT THERE WOULD BE CERTAIN STIPULATIONS, CERTAIN REPORTING REQUIREMENTS. IT DOESN'T SAY THEY CAN'T BUY IT. IT JUST SAYS THAT IF THEY BUY IT, THEY NEED TO KEEP TRACK OF WHO THEY BOUGHT IT FROM AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO MAKE IT WHERE WE COULD FUND FOLKS WHO ARE STEALING THESE THINGS. SCRAP FERROUS METALS ARE EXCLUDED FROM REGULATED PROPERTY. SO WE RECOGNIZE THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN METALS THAT HAVE, SAY, IRON IN THEM VERSUS METALS THAT ARE COPPER OR ALUMINUM THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE PRIMARILY WIRE. SO WE EXEMPT EXEMPTED THOSE FERROUS METALS. WE THAT THAT'S IN THE FIRST SECTION. AND THEN IN THE SECOND SECTION WE ADDED A LICENSING, A LOCAL LICENSING SO THAT THEY RECYCLERS HAVE ALWAYS HAD TO HAVE A LICENSE FROM THE STATE OF KENTUCKY. NOW THEY HAVE TO HAVE A LICENSE FROM METRO LOUISVILLE AS WELL. THE ADVANTAGE THERE IS THAT IF THEY HAVE A LOCAL LICENSE AND THEY'RE RUNNING UP AGAINST, WE'RE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH SOMETHING AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, THEN WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO WITHHOLD THAT LICENSE OR SUSPEND THAT LICENSE, WHICH GIVES US THE ABILITY TO ENGAGE THAT THAT RECYCLER MORE COMPLETELY. SO THERE IS A LICENSE WE ESTABLISHED THE LICENSE FEE. I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT A FAIR LICENSE FEE WOULD BE. I LOOKED AT WHAT THE STATE IS CHARGING FOR RECYCLERS, AND I JUST USED THE SAME FEE THE STATE USES. SO IT'S I WOULD ARGUE IT'S A MINIMAL FEE. IT'S $75 A YEAR. BUT WE DID WANT TO AT LEAST GET THAT LICENSE IN PLACE. SECTIONS THREE, FOUR AND FIVE ARE CONFORMING TO ONE, TWO, THREE. THEY CHANGE CODES AND REGULATIONS. THE NAME AGAIN THAT WAS THEIR NAME CHANGE ALL REGULATED PROPERTY AND RESTRICTED METALS GET GET INFORMATION ON THE TIME AND DATE THAT IT WAS PURCHASED, DESCRIPTION OF THE PROPERTY, THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THEN WHAT WE DID IS WE ADDED LANGUAGE THAT FOR RESTRICTED METALS, WHICH INCLUDES INFRASTRUCTURE OR BURNED WIRE, THERE ARE ADDITIONAL BITS OF INFORMATION THAT THE RECYCLERS MUST COLLECT ON OUR BEHALF. THAT'S A PHOTO OF THE SELLER AT THE TIME. IT'S A DIGITAL COPY OF THE GOVERNMENT ID FOR EACH TRANSACTION, SCAN THE BACK OF THE ID SELLER'S PHONE NUMBER. WE WANT THAT WE NEED A LICENSE PLATE NUMBER. SO THEY HAVE TO INTRODUCE ENTER THAT A DIGITAL PHOTO OF THE PROPERTY AND THEN DIGITAL DIGITAL THUMBPRINT. THOSE ARE ONLY FOR THOSE. THOSE SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS ARE ONLY FOR THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO REGULATE. RIGHT. THAT DOESN'T [01:05:02] INCLUDE IF SOMEONE BRINGS IN A WASHER AND DRYER, IT DOESN'T INCLUDE IF SOMEONE BRINGS IN A LAWNMOWER. THIS IS SPECIFIC TO IF YOU'RE BRINGING IN WIRE. AND WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR BURNT WIRE, WE WANT TO KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND WHERE YOU GOT THAT. BASICALLY, IT MIRRORS THE EXISTING STATE REQUIREMENTS, MAKING IT ILLEGAL TO GIVE FALSE INFORMATION. SO IF YOU ARE SELLING THIS TO A RECYCLER, AND RECYCLER IS DOING ALL THE THINGS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING RIGHT, THEY'RE TRYING TO KEEP THIS FROM PURCHASING THINGS THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE PURCHASING. IF A PERSON GIVES THE RECYCLER FALSE INFORMATION THAT NOW IS A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR, WE RAISE THE LEVEL OF CHARGE THERE TO GIVE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE TEETH TO SAY, YOU KNOW, FOLKS SHOULD NOT BE GIVING FALSE INFORMATION TO RECYCLERS. THE NO CASH TRANSACTIONS IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU SEE IN OTHER PORTIONS. IT PROHIBITS THE PURCHASE OF BURNED METALS WITHOUT A SIGNED CERTIFICATE OF OWNERSHIP. SO IF YOU IF THERE'S A REASON THAT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE BURNED WIRE AND YOU CAN SHOW THAT, THEN THEN YOU CAN PURCHASE IT. BUT BURNED WIRE MEANS THAT SOMEBODY CUT IT OFF OF A POLE SOMEWHERE. THEY TOOK IT SOMEPLACE AND BURNED THE RUBBER SHEATHING OFF. THAT'S NOT A STANDARD PRACTICE FOR THE TELECOM INDUSTRY. WHEN THE TELECOM INDUSTRY DECIDES TO RECYCLE WIRE, THEY TYPICALLY DO IT IN THE SHEATHING THAT WAS ON THE WIRE. AND THAT SHEATHING IDENTIFIES WHO THAT BELONGED TO. THE ONLY REASON TO BURN THAT OFF IS THAT DIFFERENTLY, THERE MIGHT BE SOME OTHER REASON. SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT HAVE. THE PRIMARY REASON FOR BURNING THE SHEATHING OFF IS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO MAKE IT WHERE YOU CAN'T TELL WHERE THE WIRE CAME FROM. THAT'S A PROBLEM. WE MADE A MIRROR KENTUCKY STATUTE AGAIN, AND THEN WE CONSISTENT WITH KENTUCKY STATUTE. IT'S A CLASS B FELONY A CLASS B MISDEMEANOR. I'M SORRY IF SOMEONE PURCHASES ACCORDING TO SECTION EIGHT AMENDMENT. AND ANYWAY IT'S IN THERE. SELLERS WHO PROVIDE FALSE INFORMATION CERTIFICATES ARE PENALIZED ALSO AT A CLASS AS A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR. AND THEN THE LAST TWO THINGS. AND I WAS PARTICULARLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS. WE PUT LANGUAGE IN THAT SAYS VERY MUCH LIKE THE DUMPING ORDINANCE WHERE IF WE HAVE YOU ON FILM DUMPING ON CAMERA, DUMPING ILLEGALLY, WE CAN TAKE YOUR CAR OR TRUCK AWAY. WE'VE DONE THE SAME THING IF A POLICE OFFICER SEES YOU CUTTING IT, IF WE HAVE VIDEO EVIDENCE OR PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT YOUR VEHICLE WAS USED IN STEALING THESE THESE TYPES OF CABLES, THESE TYPES OF WIRE, WE CAN AND WILL IMPOUND YOUR CAR. WE ALSO ADDED LANGUAGE VERY MUCH LIKE THE CATALYTIC CONVERTER LANGUAGE THAT SAYS THAT IF YOU HAVE THIS BURNT WIRE IN YOUR POSSESSION AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, YOU KNOW, PROOF THAT THERE'S A REASON YOU WOULD HAVE IT, THEN THAT JUST HAVING IT IN YOUR POSSESSION IS AGAINST THE LAW, THE SAME AS HAVING A CONVERTER, A CATALYTIC CONVERTER. AND THEN THE OTHER THING I GOT SOME FEEDBACK THIS MORNING FROM THE INDUSTRY. THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT IT WAS LEFT TO LMPD TO DETERMINE. AND SO WE ADDED LANGUAGE TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IF THERE'S A VIOLATION AND A RECYCLER FEELS LIKE THAT, IT WAS AN UNFAIR THAT THEY THAT THEY WERE, THAT THEY WERE CHARGED UNFAIRLY, THEY CAN TAKE THEIR COMPLAINT TO THE TO THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD, WHICH IS A LOCAL BOARD THAT GIVES US A MUCH QUICKER OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO THEIR CONCERNS. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THEY HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE COURTS TO WEIGH IN. AND THEN IF THEY DON'T GET SATISFACTION THERE, THEN THEY CAN TAKE IT INTO THE COURTS. BUT THE GOAL IS TO HAVE AS MINIMAL IMPACT ON THE INDUSTRY AS WE CAN, WHILE RECOGNIZING AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM AND THAT WE NEED TO PUT SOME LANGUAGE IN PLACE THAT MAKES IT EASIER FOR US TO RECOGNIZE WHO IT IS THAT'S STEALING THIS MATERIAL AND TRYING TO SELL IT. SO THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE GIST OF IT. I'M HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN. IN THE QUEUE IS SHAMIKA PARISH WRIGHT, PLEASE. THANK YOU, MISTER CHAIR. FIRST, COUNCILMAN KRAMER, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK ON THIS. I KNOW IT HASN'T BEEN EASY AND YOU'VE BEEN TRYING TO BE AS INCLUSIVE AS POSSIBLE. MY CONCERNS AROUND LANGUAGE LANGUAGE DOES MATTER, AND THE LANGUAGE AROUND THE DEFINITION IS VERY BROAD. AND THIS ISN'T, YOU KNOW, AS WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PROFILED AND PEOPLE DEAL WITH ALL SORTS OF ISSUES AS WE'RE TRYING TO DEAL WITH ONE WE WANT WE DON'T WANT TO PUT SOMEONE IN A BAD SITUATION. AND I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE WIRE AND HOW IT'S TOO BROAD, SEEING AS THERE'S FINANCIAL PENALTIES. AS YOU STATED WITH THE STATUTE, THE ORDINANCE DRAFT, AND THERE ARE AND SOMEONE CAN GET UP TO 12 MONTHS IN JAIL. AND WE KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ENTREPRENEURS, A LOT OF PEOPLE USE RECYCLING FACILITIES TO SAVE MONEY, TO RECYCLE TO ALL THOSE THINGS. AND WE LOVE THAT PEOPLE ARE DOING IT. BUT I THINK WE [01:10:04] WANT TO BE CLEAR IN OUR LANGUAGE AND OUR DEFINITION OF INFRASTRUCTURE WIRE, AND JUST SPECIFICALLY THAT IT'S SO BROAD THAT THE ORDINANCE WHY LIKE SAYING JUST SAYING UTILITY WIRE CAN LEAVE IT OPEN AND THAT IN FACT, AS I CHECKED WITH SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE INDUSTRY AND WHO AGREE WITH A LOT OF THE THINGS YOU'VE DONE AND ARE THANKFUL FOR IT, AND THEY DEFINITELY WANT TO HANDLE THE WIRES AND ALL OF THAT IN A DIFFERENT WAY, WHICH I THINK YOUR ORDINANCE DOES. THE FACT IS, IS THAT YOU CAN BUY THE KIND OF WIRE THAT'S REFERRED TO IN THIS DEFINITION AT HOME DEPOT, AND YOU CAN HAVE IT DELIVERED TO YOUR HOUSE TOMORROW BY AMAZON. AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THAT WORRIES ME. AND I SAID THIS IN OUR LAST MEETING. I'M NOT JUST MAKING THIS UP. IT THAT REALLY CONCERNS ME. HOW CAN WE FIGURE OUT THE, THE, THE BEST DEFINITION SO THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE WELL INTENTIONED DOING THE RIGHT THING? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE WIRE FOLKS. THE PEOPLE CAN THAT THEY'RE NOT CAUGHT UP INTO THIS. MESS. DID YOU WANT TO RESPOND, SIR? YES. THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN. COUNCILMAN. YOU'RE AGAIN. THAT'S THAT WAS IN MY OPENING COMMENTS. IS PRECISELY THAT THERE IS NOT A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ELECTRICAL WIRE THAT IS IN THE STREET LIGHTS. AND I WOULD POINT OUT FOR, YOU KNOW, SPEAKING TO THE COUNCILMAN FROM DISTRICT THREE, YOUR DISTRICT IS MORE HARD HIT WITH THE LIGHT PROBLEM THAN THAN OTHER PORTIONS OF THE COMMUNITY. RIGHT? THE TELECOM WIRE IS PRETTY MUCH ALL OVER. BUT THE STREET LIGHTS WHERE WE'VE SEEN THE WORST OF IT HAS BEEN ALONG 264, SPECIFICALLY 264 WEST OF 260 OF WEST OF 65. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SAFETY HERE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIGHTING ON STREETS. AND THE REALITY IS, AND YOU'RE QUITE RIGHT, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ELECTRICAL WIRE THAT CARRIES ENOUGH CURRENT TO TURN THOSE LIGHTS ON. AND SO THE ONLY I MEAN YOU THERE'S NOT A WAY TO DEFINE IT. WE TRIED THERE'S NOT A WAY TO DEFINE IT MORE CLEARLY TO SAY YOU CAN'T BUY MATERIAL THAT'S STOLEN AND IDENTIFIED AS BEING STOLEN. IT'S IT LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME. AND SO SHORT OF, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO FIND A WAY TO SAY AND AGAIN, IT'S ALREADY ILLEGAL TO BUY SOMETHING THAT'S STOLEN. SO WHAT THIS DOES IS IT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T PROHIBIT A SCRAP DEALER FROM PURCHASING WIRE. WHAT IT DOES IS IT IT ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THE KIND OF WIRE THAT IS USED IN STREET LIGHTS AND THE KIND OF WIRE THAT LIGHTS SOMEONE'S BARN IS THE SAME KIND OF WIRE. MORE WIRE IS BEING STOLEN THAT LIGHTS STREET LIGHTS THAN IS BEING STOLEN, THAT LIGHTS BARNS. SO OUR CHALLENGE ISN'T SO MUCH TO IDENTIFY SPECIFICALLY THE WIRE. OUR CHALLENGE IS TO FIGURE OUT WHO'S SELLING IT SO WE CAN FIGURE OUT IF THAT PERSON WHO'S SELLING IT IS ACTUALLY SELLING SOMETHING THAT BELONGS TO THEM VERSUS SOMETHING THAT THEY'VE STOLEN. SO THIS DOESN'T AND I THINK FOLKS MIGHT MISUNDERSTAND, I DON'T I'M NOT MAKING THIS. I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU'RE MISUNDERSTANDING. I WANT TO MAKE SURE JOHN Q PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS NOTHING IN HERE PREVENTS A SCRAP DEALER FROM BUYING ANY OF THESE PRODUCTS. RIGHT? WELL, EXCEPT BURNT WIRE, EVEN BURNT WIRE THEY CAN PURCHASE AS LONG AS THE PERSON WHO'S SELLING IT HAS PROOF THAT IT BELONGED TO THEM. RIGHT. SO WHAT IT DOES, THOUGH, IS IT REQUIRES THEM, THE SCRAP METAL DEALERS, TO DO A BETTER JOB OF KEEPING TRACK OF WHO THEY PURCHASED IT FROM, WHEN THEY PURCHASED IT, WHEN THEY PURCHASED IT. WE WANT A PHOTO OF WHAT THEY PURCHASED SO WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. IT MAKES IT MORE POSSIBLE FOR US AFTER THE FACT TO GO BACK AND FIGURE OUT WHERE THIS CAME FROM, SO WE CAN TRACE DOWN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STEALING IT. AND AGAIN, I'D REMIND YOU, THE ONLY REASON WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IS BECAUSE THERE ARE SECTIONS OF EXPRESSWAY IN LOUISVILLE THAT YOU CAN'T DRIVE ON SAFELY AFTER DARK BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE STOLEN THE WIRE. THERE ARE THERE HAVE BEEN MULTIPLE SITUATIONS WHERE FOLKS HAD ACCESS TO TELECOM THAT WAS DISCONNECTED, OR THE SERVICE WAS INTERRUPTED BECAUSE PEOPLE PULL UP TO TELEPHONE, WIRE, TELEPHONE POLES AND JUST SLICE IT. AND WE'VE EVEN HAD SITUATIONS WHERE AND IT HAPPENED IN MY SCHOOL WENT IN TO SCHOOL ONE MORNING, OUR ENTIRE INTERNET WAS DOWN. I WENT TO THE HEAD OF OUR IT DEPARTMENT AND I SAID, DO YOU KNOW IF THIS IS A PROBLEM? DO YOU KNOW IF THE IF THE FIBER OPTIC CABLE GOT CUT? HE SAID, I CALLED, I CALLED OUR PROVIDER AND THEY SAID THEY DON'T THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM. LATER THAT DAY HE CAME TO ME AND HE SAID, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU KNEW THAT. HE SAID, BUT WHEN THEY CAME OUT TO FIND OUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED IN THE FIELD JUST ACROSS THE STREET FROM US, SOMEONE HAD CUT THE FIBER OPTIC CABLE, THINKING THAT THEY WERE CUTTING COPPER WIRE. [01:15:07] AND OUR SCHOOL, THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND OUR SCHOOL, WHAT USED TO BE GE, THAT ENTIRE AREA, ALL OF THEM LOST ALL OF THEIR TELECOM BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE STEALING COPPER. AND THE REASON THEY'RE STEALING IT IS BECAUSE IT'S EASY TO SELL AND IT MAKES A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY. THEY DON'T MAKE NEAR OFF OF IT WHAT IT COSTS. BUT IT'S EASY AND IT'S QUICK. ALL WE'RE ASKING THE INDUSTRY TO DO IS HELP US KEEP TRACK OF IT. RIGHT. IT'S NOT LIKE THEY CAN'T PURCHASE IT. IT'S JUST HELP US FIND OUT WHO'S DOING THIS FOR SAFETY'S SAKE. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN. COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI, I WANTED TO OPPORTUNITY TO READDRESS BECAUSE MY QUESTION DIDN'T GET ANSWERED. MY QUESTION, AND I AGREE. I WANT THIS REGULATED. I WANT IT DEALT WITH. MY QUESTION IS THAT THE BROADNESS OF THE DEFINITION MEANS THAT SOMEONE IN POSSESSION COULD BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME FOR HAVING THIS. AND SO THE BEST SOLUTION WOULD BE THAT THE WIRE HAS INSIGNIA ON IT ITSELF SO THAT IT'S ALREADY IN IT. BUT THAT IS ANOTHER DEPARTMENT TO DEAL WITH THAT, RIGHT? WE CAN'T MAKE THE MANUFACTURERS PUT EVERYONE THAT BUYS IT AND PUT THEIR SYMBOLS IN IT. THAT CAN'T BE BURNT OFF, BECAUSE TO ME THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE A BETTER SOLUTION. BUT POSSESSION OF THE WIRE AS DESCRIBED, WHICH YOUR DEFINITION CAN BE USED AS A. THEY CAN BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME AS AS IT'S EVIDENCE TO SALE THAT TO ME. AND I KNOW YOU SAID THAT THEY CAN BECAUSE OF THE LOCAL ORDINANCE AND THEY CAN TAKE IT TO THE CODES OR REGS OR WHATEVER THEY NEED TO DO, BUT THAT DOESN'T STOP THEM IN THE CRIMINAL PROCESS. IF WHAT IF THEY'RE WRONGLY CHARGED? THAT TO ME, I'M WANTING TO. WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS YOU SAID THAT YOU'VE TRIED TO FIND DIFFERENT WAYS TO DEFINE THIS. ARE THERE OTHER EXAMPLES IN OTHER CITIES OR OTHER PLACES WHERE THEY'VE DEALT WITH THIS ISSUE IN A WAY THAT IT SPEAKS TO IT? BECAUSE THIS IS NOT JUST ME AS A CONCERNED PERSON WHO KNOW PEOPLE WHO RECYCLE AND DO ALL OF THAT. I'M SAYING THIS EVEN THE PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY SAY THAT THE DEFINITION IS TOO BROAD. COUNCILWOMAN, THE DEFINITION IS AS BROAD AS IT IS ONLY BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A WAY TO DEFINE IT MORE NARROWLY. A WIRE IS A WIRE IS A WIRE, AND THE WIRE YOU USE TO CONDUCT THAT LEVEL OF ELECTRICITY IS THE TYPE OF WIRE YOU USE TO CONDUCT THAT LEVEL OF ELECTRICITY. THERE'S NOT YOU CAN'T MAKE IT CLEAR. THERE'S NO WAY TO DEFINE A WIRE THAT KYTC USES VERSUS A WIRE THAT SOMEONE USES TO ELECTRIFY THEIR BARN. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO THAT. SO THAT'S WHY THE LANGUAGE IS AS BROAD AS IT IS. IT SEEMS TO ME YOUR YOUR CONCERN ISN'T SO MUCH ABOUT AT THE RECYCLING FACILITY. RIGHT. LIKE FIGURING OUT THE WIRE. IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FOLKS WHO MIGHT BE IN POSSESSION OF IT, RIGHT? THE ORDINANCE DOESN'T MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO BE IN POSSESSION OF WIRE, THAT YOU HAVE EVERY REASON TO BE IN POSSESSION OF. IT MIRRORS THE LANGUAGE AROUND CATALYTIC CONVERTERS. WE KNEW A COUPLE YEARS AGO PEOPLE WERE SLIDING UP UNDER CARS. THEY WERE CUTTING OUT CATALYTIC CONVERTERS, AND THEY WERE SELLING THEM LIKE NOBODY'S BUSINESS. WHAT WE DID IS WE SAID THERE'S ONLY CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE A CATALYTIC CONVERTER, AND IF YOU'VE GOT THEM IN YOUR POSSESSION, AND THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD NORMALLY HAVE IN YOUR POSSESSION, THEN IT'S ILLEGAL. NOW, WHAT THIS DOES IS IT SAYS IF YOU ARE JOHN Q PUBLIC, WHO HAS POUNDS AND POUNDS AND POUNDS OF THIS STUFF IN YOUR POSSESSION, AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO HAVE IT, EXCEPT THAT YOU JUST SAY, HEY, I HAVE IT. WHERE'D YOU GET IT? RIGHT? YOU IT SIMPLY SAYS, WE KNOW WHAT OUR PROBLEM IS. WE KNOW WHAT OUR PROBLEM IS. WE'VE IDENTIFIED THIS IS THIS IS WHERE WE CAN THIS IS A PINCH POINT, IF YOU WILL. AND SO WE'VE IDENTIFIED WE'VE WE'VE INCLUDED LANGUAGE IN HERE THAT LETS US TREAT THAT WIRE THE SAME WAY WE TREATED CATALYTIC CONVERTERS. AND AGAIN THE GOAL THERE IS JUST TO SAY THERE ARE ONLY CERTAIN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE THIS IN YOUR POSSESSION. AND ONE OF PERHAPS THE LARGEST REASON IS YOU STOLE IT FROM SOMEWHERE. THERE'S NO REASON FOR SOMEBODY TO HAVE SPOOLS OF BURNT CABLE. THERE'S NO REASON FOR SOMEBODY TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, YARDS AND YARDS AND YARDS OF WIRE THAT KYTC USES TO LIGHT PROPERTIES. NOW, AGAIN, IF YOU GOT A PERSON WHO IS REHABBING A FACILITY AND IN THE PROCESS OF REHABBING THE FACILITY, THEY'VE GOT THAT. THEN THEY HAVE EVERYTHING THEY NEED. AND IT'S NOT ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO HAVE THAT. SO WE'RE NOT TARGETING, YOU KNOW, FOLKS WHO ARE DOING REHAB WORK. WE'RE NOT TARGETING, YOU KNOW, FOLKS WHO HAVE A REASON TO HAVE THESE MATERIALS. WE'RE SIMPLY SAYING IF THIS IS NOT THE INDUSTRY YOU'RE IN AND YOU JUST ALL OF A SUDDEN HAVE ALL OF THIS CABLE THAT'S PROBLEMATIC, AND THERE'S NOT A WAY TO MORE NARROWLY DEFINE IT, SORRY, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE RIGHT ALONG. WE'VE GOT JUST A FEW MORE MINUTES. ANTHONY ARGENTINA, PLEASE. YES. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR, IN SUPPORT OF [01:20:02] THIS. TO BE CLEAR, IT'S HARD. AND THE ONLY THING I LAMENT IS THAT AN INDUSTRY WHO HAS MANY GREAT ACTORS WHO ARE ALL DOING THE RIGHT THING, HAVE HAVE NOW AN ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN BECAUSE OF OTHER PEOPLE'S ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. THAT SUCKS. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME IN THE HISTORY OF GOVERNMENT THAT THAT'S EVER HAPPENED. THERE ARE ABOUT A MILLION THINGS THAT WE ALL DO AND PAY FOR IN BUSINESS, PAYS FOR THE WHOLE FACT THAT LICENSES EVEN EXIST IN ANY INDUSTRY IS BECAUSE OF OTHER PEOPLE BEING BAD ACTORS. AND THEREFORE WE HAD TO REQUIRE EVERYBODY TO BE LICENSED TO DO CERTAIN ACTIVITIES. RIGHT. SO IT IS LAMENTABLE THAT WE HAVE TO PUT IN SOME REGULATIONS. BUT I THINK YOU'VE THREAD THE NEEDLE HERE, AND I WANT TO POINT OUT TO MY COLLEAGUE AND TO ALL MY COLLEAGUES AND THE PUBLIC WE HAVE, WE HAVE EXPERIENCED DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS RELATED TO CATALYTIC CONVERTERS. OKAY. THE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE, LITERALLY ZERO EVIDENCE THAT LMPD OR ANY OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY IN THIS CITY HAVE GONE HOG WILD IN WRITING TICKETS AND ARRESTING PEOPLE WHO WERE LEGITIMATELY WHO LEGITIMATELY HAD CATALYTIC CONVERTERS AND, AND, YOU KNOW, WERE WRONGFULLY ACCUSED OF THAT. THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF THAT. SO, SO THIS IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, LAW ENFORCEMENT IS NOW GOING TO GO OUT AND START ARRESTING PEOPLE LEFT, RIGHT AND SIDEWAYS BECAUSE THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT TO REPLACE A LIGHT SWITCH ON MY HOUSE, AND I'M GOING TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF WIRE ON ME AND THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, WASTE THEIR TIME. YOU KNOW, QUESTIONING ME ON THIS IS SILLY. NOT TO MENTION THAT PERSON STILL HAS DUE PROCESS RIGHTS IN THE COURTS, WHICH HAS TO BE PROVEN. THEY CAN'T JUST JUST THE ACCUSATION ITSELF IS NOT ENOUGH, PARTICULARLY WHEN WE'RE TALKING MISDEMEANORS. SO I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE HERE IS GOOD. AND I WANT TO UNDERLINE HOW SERIOUS THE PROBLEM IS RELATED TO THE HIGHWAY LIGHTING. I HAVE CONSTITUENTS WHO REGULARLY TEXT ME BECAUSE THEY'RE ON THE ROAD ALL THE TIME ON WHOLE STRETCHES. IT'S GOTTEN BETTER, AND THANKFULLY KYTC AND OTHERS HAVE STARTED REWIRING THESE LIGHTS. BUT THERE WERE WHOLE PERIODS OF TIME WHERE HUGE SWATHS OF THESE STREETS WERE PITCH BLACK, AND THESE WERE PEOPLE COMMUTING IN THE MORNING AND COMMUTING AT NIGHT. I MYSELF HAVE DAUGHTERS WHO JUST GOT THEIR DRIVING PERMITS, AND IN SIX MONTHS WE'LL HAVE THEIR RESTRICTED LICENSES. AND, YOU KNOW, THEY WILL. THEY WORK PARTICULARLY IN THE WINTERTIME. THEY'RE GOING TO BE COMING HOME AFTER DARK. I WANT THESE STREETS LIT. THIS IS I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A SOLUTION THAT DID NOT REQUIRE ADDITIONAL REGULATION OF GOOD, LAW ABIDING BUSINESSES. BUT I THINK YOU HAVE DONE THE RIGHT WORK HERE. AND I THINK I SEE VERY LITTLE TO NO RISK THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE EVIDENCE IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES THAT ANYBODY IS GOING TO BE ARRESTED OR BURDENED BECAUSE THEY HAVE ACCESS, BECAUSE THEY HAVE WIRING THAT THEY BOUGHT FROM THE STORE. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK ON THIS, AND I'M FULLY SUPPORTING IT. COUNCILMAN, PLEASE. THANK YOU. CHAIR, I WANT TO COMMEND MY COLLEAGUE FOR BRINGING THIS BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS WHAT WAS DONE WITH CATALYTIC CONVERTERS FROM THE COUNCIL IN THE PAST. I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES, HOWEVER, AND I WANT TO SAY I SPEAK FROM A LOT OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE HERE. MY FIRST JOB WAS A SCRAPPER. MY DAD WAS A ROLLBACK MACHINERY TRUCK DRIVER, AND PART OF THAT JOB IS COLLECTING SOME SCRAP, INCLUDING SCRAP WIRE. YOU KNOW, I WAS A FRESHMAN IN HIGH SCHOOL. I HAD MY SEARS AND ROEBUCK COVERALLS, AND I WOULD COME OUT OF FACTORIES LOOKING LIKE A COAL MINER WITH MY SISTER FREQUENTLY SCRAPPERS. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INDUSTRY, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT DEALERS, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT DEVELOPERS, ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT MIGHT INCIDENTALLY DEAL OR EVEN IN LONG, LONG DUMPSTERS IN SCRAP METAL, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT INDUSTRY, BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SCRAPPERS, INDUSTRY IS NOT THE RIGHT WORD. THESE PEOPLE ARE AS SALT OF THE EARTH AS IT GETS FREQUENTLY. DON'T HAVE A HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION. WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROPERLY COMMUNICATE THIS. I DO HAVE A PROBLEM AND I AND I DON'T WANT TO HAVE A PROBLEM, BUT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SECTION NINE AND SECTION TEN J. WHEN IT COMES TO THE POSSESSION PROBLEM I HAVE HAD IN MY POSSESSION SPOOLS OF THIS KIND OF METAL WITH NO PAPER TRAIL OF HOW IT CAME INTO MY POSSESSION. BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE SCAVENGERS, THESE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SURVIVE. THEY ARE TRYING TO KEEP A ROOF OVER THEIR FAMILY'S HEADS AS BEST THEY CAN WITH VERY MARGINAL WORK. THEY'RE NOT CRIMINALS. SOME SOME PEOPLE ARE CRIMINALS. AND THAT IS JUST TRUE. BUT A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE BRINGING TRUCKS IN, PICKUP TRUCKS WITH WITH THIS KIND OF WIRE INTO THESE FACILITIES, EVEN IF THEY WERE A MINORITY, I DON'T THINK HAVING PRIMA FACIA THAT THIS IS A THIS [01:25:04] IS A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED WITH A PENALTY BETWEEN CRIMINAL AND CIVIL, UP TO $2,000 AND A YEAR IN JAIL, AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO DEFEND THEMSELVES IN COURT WITH A MERE MEANS THEY HAVE IN, YOU KNOW, MISSING THIS WORK. AND THEIR TRUCK IS IMPOUNDED WHILE THE CASE IS ADJUDICATED. I THINK THAT I THINK THIS IS TOO TALL AN ORDER. THAT'S THAT'S MY ONLY PROBLEM WITH THE LEGISLATION. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN KRAMER, YOU HAVE TO RESPOND. THANK YOU. I, I WANT TO RESPOND TO ENTIRETY, BUT THE LAST PIECE ESPECIALLY I THINK IS INTERESTING. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMPOUNDING THE VEHICLE OF A PERSON WHO IS EITHER SEEN BY A POLICE OFFICER OR CAUGHT ON VIDEO, OR WITH PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE CUTTING FIBER OR CABLE OFF OF POLES OR PULLING IT OUT OF LIGHTS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMPOUNDING CARS FROM PEOPLE WHO WE SEE BREAKING THE LAW. THESE AREN'T SCRAPPERS. THESE AREN'T PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT THERE DOING LEGITIMATE WORK. THESE AREN'T FOLKS WHO ARE DOING REMODELING WORK FOR SOMEBODY. THEY'RE CUTTING CABLE OFF OF POLES. AND THAT'S WHAT WE TAKE THE CAR FOR. SO PLEASE DON'T MISUNDERSTAND THIS. IF YOU'RE OUT AGAIN, IF YOU'RE JOHN Q PUBLIC AND YOU'RE WATCHING, PLEASE DON'T MISUNDERSTAND. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT TAKING A TRUCK AWAY FROM A GUY WHO'S LEGITIMATELY INVOLVED IN THE SCRAP BUSINESS. WE'RE TAKING THE TRUCK AWAY FROM A GUY WHO WE WATCHED, CUT A CABLE OFF OF A POLE THAT CLEARLY DOESN'T BELONG TO HIM. THAT'S THAT'S THE FIRST PART. AND IF, AS I RESPOND TO THAT, I THINK IT KIND OF LEADS INTO THE REST OF MY RESPONSE. YOU KNOW, IF A SCRAPPER IS DOING REMODEL WORK OR IF A SCRAPPER IS SCRAPPING MATERIALS THAT BELONG TO SOMEONE AND THEY'VE GIVEN THEM PERMISSION TO DO THAT, THOSE FOLKS AREN'T IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW. SO FOR ALL OF OUR WORRY AND CONCERN, WE'RE WORRIED AND CONCERNED ABOUT THE WRONG THINGS. IT'S NOT AGAINST THE LAW TO SCRAP METALS. IT'S NOT AGAINST THE LAW TO BE INVOLVED WITH A DEMOLITION PROJECT WHERE, YOU KNOW, TO MY COLLEAGUE'S POINT, IS SALT OF THE EARTH, THIS GUY'S COMING IN. HE JUST WANTS TO MAKE A LIVING. SOMEONE'S PAID HIM TO TAKE THIS STUFF OUT OF THIS BUILDING. SOMEONE'S PAID HIM TO COME IN, AND THEY'RE SAYING, YEAH, YOU CAN HAVE WHATEVER YOU CAN TAKE OUT. THAT'S SCRAP. YOU CAN HAVE. THERE'S AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN HIM AND THE PERSON WHO OWNED THAT PROPERTY. THAT AGREEMENT MEANS HE'S NOT A CRIMINAL. HE HAS A REASON TO HAVE IT. IT ONLY IT ONLY RISES TO THE LEVEL OF CRIMINAL WHEN WE STOP THE PERSON WHO MY COLLEAGUE IDENTIFIES AS A SCRAPPER. SO I'LL USE THE SAME LANGUAGE. IT ONLY RISES TO THE LEVEL OF CRIMINAL WHEN WE STOP THAT SCRAPPER WHO HAS A TRUCK FULL OF THIS STUFF, AND WE SAY TO THE SCRAPPER, WHERE'D YOU GET THIS? AND THE SCRAPPER SAYS, OH, I WAS DOING SOME REMODEL WORK. WELL, TELL ME WHERE YOU WERE DOING THE REMODEL WORK. WHO WERE YOU WORKING FOR? WHO OWNED THE PROPERTY, WHERE YOU TOOK THIS FROM? WHOSE PROPERTY WAS THIS BEFORE YOU CAME INTO POSSESSION OF IT? IT'S NOT ILLEGAL TO HAVE THIS PROPERTY IN YOUR POSSESSION. IT'S NOT. IT'S ONLY ILLEGAL TO HAVE THIS PROPERTY IN YOUR POSSESSION. IF THE PERSON WHO OWNED IT DIDN'T GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO HAVE IT. SO AGAIN, I THINK THERE'S A MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT WHAT THIS ACTUALLY DOES. AND TO COUNCILMAN GIANNINI'S POINT, WE DIDN'T SEE WITH CATALYTIC CONVERTERS THIS HUGE RUSH TO STOP PEOPLE WHO WERE TRADING LEGALLY IN CATALYTIC CONVERTERS. I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A HUGE RUSH TO GO AFTER SCRAPPERS WHO ARE BEING ASKED BY PROPERTY OWNERS TO COME IN AND DO REMODEL WORK. WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE IS PEOPLE WHO HAVE THIS IN THEIR POSSESSION. AND I APOLOGIZE TO MY COLLEAGUE AND I, AND I REGRET THAT IT'S TRUE FOR HIM. THIS DOES ADD A LEVEL OF RESPONSIBILITY. IF I'M A SCRAPPER AND SOMEBODY'S GIVING ME PERMISSION TO TAKE WIRE, IT DOES ADD A LEVEL OF RESPONSIBILITY THAT WHEN I'M ASKED, WHERE DID IT COME FROM? I HAVE TO HAVE A LEGITIMATE ANSWER. COUNCILMAN LEININGER ASKED TO RESPOND. JUST, JUST, JUST REALLY QUICKLY. AS IT'S WRITTEN IN SECTION NINE, IT'S REQUIRED TO PRESENT PROOF. AND I AM TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW, THE SCRAPPERS I HAVE KNOWN THAT I SOLD TO AT AUCTION THAT I, YOU KNOW, MY, MY, MY DEARLY DEPARTED UNCLE, THEY, THEY, THEY WOULD SAY TO THE OFFICER, I DON'T KNOW, DUDE TOLD ME I COULD TAKE IT AND THAT'S THAT IS JUST THE TRUTH. AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO COME JUSTICE INVOLVED, IF THAT IS, IF THAT IS IN THE VIEW OF THE COUNCIL AND UNFORTUNATE COLLATERAL DAMAGE. BUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM, WHICH IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM, THEN THAT'S HOW THE VOTES ARE GOING TO GO. I'M JUST SAYING THIS, THIS IS THIS IS A PROBLEM. COUNCILWOMAN SHAMIKA PARISH, RIGHT, PLEASE. THANK YOU. SO I'M THANKFUL THAT COUNCILMAN LINIGER IS ABLE TO SAY WHAT I WAS SAYING. I MY CONCERN IS THAT THE DEFINITION IS TOO BROAD. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ASKED TO CLEAN OUT HOMES AND BACKYARDS AND PLACES WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF WIRE AND EXPOSED WIRE AND WHATEVER HAPPENS. MY DEFINITION THE DEFINITION IS TOO BROAD. IF JOHN Q PUBLIC WAS GOING TO A PLACE TO [01:30:05] RECYCLE, AND THEIR REASONING WAS THAT TONY GAVE ME THIS, THIS, THIS STUFF AND THEY DON'T HAVE A WRITTEN RECEIPT FOR IT, THEN THEY COULD BE SUBJECTED, BASED ON THIS DEFINITION, TO BE IN CHARGE WITH A CRIME OR EVIDENCE TO SELL. IF THEY DON'T, IF THEY CAN'T PROVE IT WITH A RECEIPT, THEY DON'T HAVE THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY WEREN'T SELLING IT. AND AS THE REFERENCE TO CADILLAC CONVERTERS, THEY'RE VERY SPECIFIC. IF YOU'RE RIDING AROUND WITH SEVEN OF THOSE, THAT'S OBVIOUS. WIRING IS MORE GENERALIZED CATALYTIC CONVERTERS. I KNOW WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. I'VE WATCHED THEM BE FIXED AND INSTALLED OR WHATEVER. THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING. BUT I DO SEE THE CONNECTION AND MAKING THIS REGULATED SO THAT PEOPLE DON'T DO THIS. I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT MY ADVOCACY FOR PEOPLE IS NOT ME CONDONING CRIMINALITY, AND I REFUSE EVERY TIME I SAY SOMETHING ABOUT ADVOCATING FOR PEOPLE HERE, IT'S ALWAYS PUT IN THIS MENTION LIKE I'M NOT COMMITTING CRIMES, I'M NOT BREAKING THE LAW, AND I'M NOT CONDONING PEOPLE TO DO IT. BUT I STILL SUPPORT PEOPLE'S HUMAN RIGHTS AND PEOPLE NOT BEING RACIALLY PROFILED OR PROFILED BECAUSE THEY'RE POOR AND THEY HAVE A RAGGEDY TRUCK WITH WIRE IN IT. IF THEY DON'T HAVE A RECEIPT, THEN THAT COULD HAPPEN AND THEY COULD BE CHARGED. AND IT IS HELL GETTING OUT OF JAIL WITH NO MONEY. SO I APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS. AS I SAID BEFORE, I DON'T SPEAK WITH A DOUBLE TONGUE. I THINK THIS IS A GREAT EFFORT. I'M ASKING FOR A BETTER DEFINITION SO THAT PEOPLE THAT I CARE ABOUT, EVEN IF SOME OF YOU THINK EVERYBODY'S CRIMINALS, THAT THEY DON'T GET CAUGHT UP INTO THIS AND, AND JAIL UNNECESSARILY WHEN ONLY THING THEY HAD IS KEN TOLD ME, I CAN CLEAN OUT THIS HOUSE AND I'M BRINGING YOU THIS WIRE. THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING FOR IS DIFFERENT. THIS WIRE IS DIFFERENT FROM CATALYTIC CONVERTERS. CAN WE COME TOGETHER ON AN AGREED UPON DEFINITION THAT IS AS INCLUSIVE AS POSSIBLE, SO THAT IT DOESN'T PUT PEOPLE IN THAT SITUATION? SO THAT WAS IT. THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, I THERE'S NOT A RESPONSE DIFFERENT THAN THE ONE I GAVE BEFORE THAT. THE WIRE THE TYPE OF WIRE IS THE TYPE OF WIRE. THERE'S NO WAY TO DEFINE IT DIFFERENTLY. COUNCILMAN, IF I MAY FINISH, I DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE BAIT ON THE IMPLICATION THAT SOMEHOW SOME OF US ARE HEARTLESS AND DON'T CARE. I THINK COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI MADE THE POINT EARLIER, AND I APPRECIATE HIS MAKING THE POINT. HIS POINT WAS IN REGARD TO THE RECYCLERS, BUT I THINK IT'S EQUALLY APPLICABLE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE WHO ARE DOING A FAIR DAY'S WAGE, DOING THE BEST THEY CAN JUST TO GET BY. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR, WHO OUR RECYCLING MATERIALS THAT WOULD OTHERWISE END UP IN LANDFILLS. THIS IS ACTUALLY THE RECYCLING INDUSTRY IS A GREAT INDUSTRY. IT ACTUALLY DOES US A GREAT FAVOR. IT'S GREAT FOR THE ENVIRONMENT. I THINK PEOPLE WHO ARE LEGITIMATELY SELLING THESE PRODUCTS ARE DOING US A GREAT FAVOR. BUT THE SAME AS IS TRUE FOR THE RECYCLING INDUSTRY. IT'S EQUALLY TRUE FOR YOU AND I. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T BEHAVE THE WAY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BEHAVE. AND BECAUSE THAT'S TRUE, WE HAVE TO PUT REGULATIONS IN PLACE THAT INCONVENIENCE THE REST OF US. IF I COULD DO THIS ANY OTHER WAY, I WOULD. I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT WE'RE INCONVENIENCING RECYCLERS. I ABSOLUTELY DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT WE'RE INCONVENIENCING SCRAPPERS. I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT WE'RE INCONVENIENCING THE RECONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY. IT IS UNFORTUNATE. AND I AGAIN, I THERE ARE, I THINK THE 8020 PRINCIPLE HERE PROBABLY APPLIES. I WOULD ARGUE THAT MORE THAN 80% OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SELLING SCRAP METAL ARE SELLING IT QUITE LEGALLY. THIS ISN'T GOING AFTER PEOPLE WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, DOING THINGS THE RIGHT WAY. I REGRET THAT THE LARGEST PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS NOW GOING TO BE INCONVENIENCED, BECAUSE A VERY SMALL PORTION OF OUR COMMUNITY IS INVOLVED IN THE KINDS OF CRIME THAT ARE EXCEEDINGLY EXPENSIVE TO RECOVER FROM AND CREATE HEALTH, SAFETY, SAFETY ISSUES. SO I THINK IT'S AN UNFAIR CHARACTERIZATION TO SUGGEST THAT THOSE OF US WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THIS ARE DOING IT BECAUSE WE DON'T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE. IT'S MORE ESPECIALLY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I'LL TELL YOU, I AM KEENLY AWARE THAT I AM ADDING REGULATIONS AND INCONVENIENCE TO PEOPLE WHO ABSOLUTELY DON'T DESERVE IT. BUT WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM THAT A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION HAS CREATED FOR US, AND THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT IS TO IDENTIFY THAT SMALL POPULATION. THAT'S WHAT THIS DOES. IT DOESN'T SAY YOU CAN'T SCRAP ANYMORE. IT JUST SAYS, IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THIS, THEN WE HAVE TO KNOW THAT YOU'RE DOING IT LEGALLY. THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI, PLEASE. THANK YOU, [01:35:03] MR. CHAIR. A FEW THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, THERE WAS A CLAIM MADE THAT YOU NEED PROOF IN THE FORM OF A RECEIPT. NOWHERE IN HERE DOES IT SAY THAT PROOF BY ITSELF IS CALLING WHO YOU. IF ANOTHER PERSON SAYS I ALLOWED THEM TO TAKE THIS, THAT BY ITSELF IS ADMISSIBLE PROOF. SO THIS IDEA THAT YOU CAN'T CALL UP, YOU KNOW, JOE, WHO SAID THAT I COULD TAKE THAT WIRE AND THAT'S PROOF ENOUGH IS NOT TRUE. THAT'S THAT'S PROOF BY ITSELF, BY DEFINITION. SO THIS IDEA THAT YOU NEED TO BE ROLLING AROUND WITH RECEIPT IS NOT TRUE. YOU SIMPLY IF YOU CALLED SOMEBODY AND THEY WERE ABLE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, THAT'D BE IT. AS FAR AS IMPOUNDING THE CARS, WE DID THIS. I AMENDED OUR GRAFFITI ORDINANCE SEVERAL YEARS AGO TO ALSO ALLOW THAT. AND I THINK THERE'S JUST A TON OF CONFUSION ON HOW THIS WORKS. THERE IS NOT, FOR EXAMPLE, A BUNCH OF LMPD OFFICERS WITH CODES AND REGS OFFICERS ROLLING AROUND TRYING TO CAT PEOPLE IN THE ACT OF COMMITTING GRAFFITI AND THEN IMPOUNDING THEIR CARS. AT THE SAME TIME. WHAT IS HAPPENING IS WE GET THEMNDER SURVEILLANCE, WE CATCH THEM IN THE ACT ON WITH VIDEOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE. WE GO TO THEIR HOUSE AND ARREST THEM, USUALLY FINDING ALL OF THE PARAPHERNALIA THEY'VE BEEN USING. AND WE SEE THE CAR THAT WE HAVE ON VIDEO THAT THEY USED TOET BACK AND FORTH TO THE CRIME, AND THEN WE IMPOUND THE VEHICLE AGAIN. THIS IDEA THAT LMPD IS DRIVING DOWN THE HIGHWAY AND SEE SOME COPPER IN THE TRUCK AND JUST PULLS THEM OVER RANDOMLY. MEAN, I CAN'T GET LMPD TO PULL OVER PEOPLE FOR SPEEDING RIGHT NOW WHEN THEY'RE DOING 95 DOWN THE HIGHWAY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TRAFFIC OFFICERS. THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE HAPPENING. IT HASN'T HAPPENED. WE DO THIS SIMILAR THING WITH GRAFFITI WITH MANY OTHER CRIMES, AND THEY ARE NOT DOING THAT. OKAY. I FIND IT FASCINATING. SO, SO JUST HOW THIS WILL BE DONE MECHANICALLY AND HOW LMPD WORKS IS NOT BEING REPRESENTED ACCURATELY ON HOW THIS WILL BE ENFORCED. THIS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY BE ENFORCED VIA SURVEILLANCE TECHNIQUES AND EVIDENCE THAT EXISTS, THAT THEN THEY CAN GO AND ARREST THAT PERSON AND THEN EXECUTE THE LAW. I FIND IT FASCINATING THAT THAT I HAVE COLLEAGUES WHO LAMENT PROFILING. RIGHT. AND LAMENT THAT OTHER COLLEAGUES OF MINE MAY BE DOING SOMETHING THAT TARGETS CERTAIN PEOPLE AND THEN ACCUSES LMPD OF DOING THE EXACT THING THAT THEY'RE SAYING OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T DO. RIGHT. THIS IDEA THAT LMPD IS BEING BLANKETLY ACCUSED WITH NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER OF, OF, OF ABUSING THIS LAW OR ANY LAW LIKE IT. MR. CHAIR, CAN WE GET CAN WE GET. CAN WE GET SILENCE IN THE IN THE GALLERY, PLEASE. YEAH, WE WILL HAVE SILENCE IN THE GALLERY. I'LL HAVE YOU REMOVED. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. SO, SO THAT THAT BY ITSELF. IF AGAIN IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO. RIGHT. AND WE ARE GOING TO TAKE AGAIN A FEW BAD ACTORS AND THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE PAST IN LMPD AND ACCUSED THEM BLANKETLY OF VIOLATING THE LAW. THEN THEN YOU SHOULD BE ACCEPTING OF THAT FOR ANY OTHER ACCUSATION OF ANY OTHER DEMOGRAPHIC IN THE CITY, WHICH I WOULD ALSO REJECT. IF SOMEBODY BREAKS THE LAW, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERYBODY ELSE IN THAT INDUSTRY ALSO BREAKS THE LAW, OR IT SHOULD BE ACCUSED OF BAKING IT. SO AND THEN FINALLY, I'LL SAY, LOOK, AS COUNCILMAN CRAMER SAID, THERE'S MASSIVE COST TO THIS. I MEAN, THE ONLY THING I WOULD PROBABLY LIKE TO SEE AMENDED IS, IS TO ADD FULL RESTITUTION LIABILITY TO THE PEOPLE, TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THIS, WHAT WE HAVE NOT DONE IT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK LEGALLY WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO IT. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A CIVIL FINE AGAINST THOSE PEOPLE FOR THE FULL COST OF THE CRIMINALITY THAT THEY'RE EXECUTING. I BELIEVE BY STATUTE WE'RE LIMITED ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY WE CAN FIND SOMEBODY, SO WE CANNOT DO THAT. BUT I MEAN, THAT'S THE ONLY THING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ADDED. BUT AGAIN, THIS IS I KNOW THAT THERE ARE CONCERNS, BUT WE HAVE DONE LAWS LIKE THIS BEFORE AND WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE CONCERNS IN ENFORCING IT, THAT THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS BEING ACCUSED OF. SO WE ARE NOT SEEING THAT EVIDENCE, I THINK IS A REASONABLE THING TO MOVE FORWAR AND I JUST NTED TO CLARIFY HOW WE HAVE ENFORCED THESE OTHERAWS IN THE PAST. I IS NOT RANDOMLY PULLING OVER CA IT I MORLIKEHROUNGS IN THEIR INVEIGNS THAEY C U HAHEROOPEHATHE TYPICALLY DONE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. COUNCILWOMAN JENNY MURRAY, PLEASE. THANK YOU. CHAIR, I JUST WANT TO ALSO SAY THAT I DO AGREE WITH THIS [01:40:06] PROPOSAL. THERE WAS A COMMENT MADE A FEW TIMES ABOUT RECEIPTS, AND AS COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI STATED, THERE IS A COMMENT IN HERE ABOUT RECEIPTS, BUT IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SCRAPPERS OR THOSE NEEDING RECEIPTS. IT IS ABOUT THE SECONDARY. LET ME GET TO IT. THE SECONDARY METAL RECYCLERS TO GIVE RECEIPTS TO THOSE THAT ARE SELLING IT. SO IT'S WIT PLAIN WRITTEN OR PRINTED RECEIPT AND THAT IS WHERE IT IS DOCUMENTED HERE. I DO AGREE THAT WE HAVE SCRAPPERS THAT ARE OUT HERE AND DOING A GOOD JOB FOR US, AND CONTINUE TO DO THAT WORK. I APPRECIATE THAT THAT'S BEING DONE. I THINK WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE IS THAT, AS HAS BEEN STATED, THAT YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW WHERE THAT'S COMING FROM AND BE ABLE TO STATE WHERE IT'S COMING FROM. SO AGAIN, GIVE THE NAME OR THE HOUSE OR THE WORK YOU'RE DOING VERSUS I JUST PICKED IT UP OFF THE STREET. SO AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU'VE PUT FORWARD IN THIS COUNCILMAN KRAMER. BUT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE HERE'S HERE'S HOW IT'S GOING TO BE. COUNCILWOMAN SHAMIKA PARISH. RIGHT. WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION, BUT SHE HAS A BILL TO BE HEARD. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU THE OPTION. YOU CAN ASK YOUR NEXT QUESTION AND WE ADJOURN, OR WE'LL CALL THE QUESTION AND WE'LL GO TO YOU TO THE NEXT OPTION. NEXT ITEM. ASKING YOU HAVE HAD PLENTY OF TIME AND HE MAY WANT A RESPONSE. I'M CALLING THE QUESTION IF YOU WANT TO GIVE UP YOUR TIME. OKAY. MR. CHAIR, I, I INTRODUCED THIS AMENDMENT. I'M NOT I'M NOT ON THE COMMITTEE, SO I CAN'T MAKE A MOTION. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN. THAT HAS BEEN MOVED AND PASSED. THIS IS A VOICE VOTE FOR THE AMENDMENT. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. NAY, AND THEN IT PASSES. YES. NOW WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A VOTE ON THE ORDINANCE. THIS IS A ROLL CALL. VOTE SEVEN. COMMITTEE MEMBER SHANKLIN. IT'S YOUR TIME. YOU HAVE EIGHT AYES AND ONE PRESENT. THANK YOU. COLLEAGUES, THE ORDINANCE PASSES. CLERK, PLEASE. PLEASE [4. R-029-25     A RESOLUTION URGING LOUISVILLE METRO GOVERNMENT TO FORMALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THE DOCUMENTED HARMS OF THE LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE DEPARTMENT AND TO ENCOURAGE THE LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE DEPARTMENT TO BUILD TRUST IN THE COMMUNITY. 5/7/25 Public Safety Committee Held 4/16/25 Public Safety Committee Held 3/19/25 Public Safety Committee Held 3/5/25 Public Safety Committee Tabled Action Required By: August 27, 2025 Sponsors: Shameka Parrish-Wright (D-3), JP Lyninger (D-6)] READ ITEM NUMBER FOUR IN THE RECORD, PLEASE. A RESOLUTION URGING LOUISVILLE METRO GOVERNMENT TO FORMALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THE DOCUMENTED HARMS OF THE LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ENCOURAGE THE LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE DEPARTMENT TO BUILD TRUST IN THE COMMUNITY. READ IN FULL. I GET A MOTION. MOTION. THAT HAS BEEN PROPERLY MOVED BY COMMITTEE, BY THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS. COUNCILMAN PERRY, RIGHT, IS THE SPONSOR OF THE RESOLUTION. YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. THIS RESOLUTION IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE BROUGHT BACK AGAIN THIS YEAR. IT HAS HAD MAJOR AMENDMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT BY THE COMMUNITY. THIS IS NOT SHAMIKA WORDS. THESE ARE WORDS THAT HAVE BEEN DOCUMENTED BY THE COMMUNITY, BY THE DOJ REPORT ON POLICING AND BY THE HISTORY OF POLICING REPORT THAT WAS COMMISSIONED AND THE TRUTH AND TRANSFORMATION PROCESS OUT OF U OF L AND THE COMMUNITY WANTS A ON. THE THESE THINGS ARE DATED BACK AT LEAST 2020 BEFORE 2020. AND WE HAVE WORKED TOGETHER FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WE CAN HAVE FORMALLY ACKNOWLEDGED AS COUNCIL. AND I WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT. NONE OF THIS IS ANTI LMPD AS IT SEEMS LIKE ANYTHING GETS TAKEN TO THAT LEVEL. THIS IS NOT ANTI MAYOR GREENBERG OR CHIEF HUMPHRIES. THIS DOES NOT WORK AGAINST WHAT THEY PUT TOGETHER AS THEIR OWN VERSION OF THE LOUISVILLE CONSENT DECREE. THIS IS NON-BINDING RESOLUTION. I WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT. IT'S NON-BINDING. IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU DO ANYTHING. IT DOESN'T SUBJECT YOU TO A BUNCH OF LAWSUITS. THERE'S NO MONEY THAT IT COSTS. IT'S THE COMMUNITY VOICE THAT DID NOT GET CAPTURED IN EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAS HAPPENED. SOME VOICES DID, SOME VOICES DIDN'T. THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US AS A COUNCIL TO BE BOLD, TO SAY THAT WE RECOGNIZE THAT THERE HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED HARMS AND WE WANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE'RE NOT WE'RE WE'RE PUTTING THAT FORMALLY OUT HERE SO THAT THERE'S RECOGNITION [01:45:02] SO THAT WE CAN PIVOT TOWARDS HEALING AND GOING TO A NEW DIRECTION. IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT PEOPLE WILL ARE WORKING ON DIFFERENT PARTS OF WHATEVER THE MAYOR HAS PUT TOGETHER. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT IN A, IN A, YOU KNOW, IN A DISRESPECTFUL WAY, BUT THE MAYOR IS THE MANAGER OF OUR CITY, OF THE LEGISLATION AND THE BUDGET THAT WE CONTROL AND WE PASS IT IS HIS JOB TO DO HIS PART AND TAKE ACTION. HE IS DOING THAT. THERE IS NO DOUBT THERE'S AND I HAVE SAID FROM THE BEGINNING, IF THEY WANT TO LIST ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THEY'VE DONE IN THE PROCESS SINCE 2020, IN THE REFORMS THAT COULD BE ADDED TO THIS. BUT THIS RESOLUTION IS NOT ABOUT MAYOR GREENBERG OR CHIEF HUMPHRIES. IT'S ABOUT RECOGNIZING WHAT HAPPENED AND MAKING SURE THAT WE PIVOT FORWARD. THIS RESOLUTION IS ONE STEP. THE NEXT PART OF THAT IS OTHER PIECES THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON. I'M NOT WORKING ON THAT. I'M WORKING ON THIS WITH THE COMMUNITY AS A WAY TO HONOR THEIR VOICES, HONOR THE TRAUMA, HONOR THE MANY THINGS THAT TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY HAS EXPERIENCED, INCLUDING MYSELF, BECAUSE I WAS WRONGFULLY ARRESTED AND I WAS NOT COMMITTING A CRIME, AND TOO MANY OTHER PEOPLE. WE'RE PAYING LAWSUITS. WE CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH THIS IN EVERY OTHER AREA. AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY A RESOLUTION THAT'S WENT THROUGH THE SAME PROCESSES AS EVERYBODY ELSE'S RESOLUTIONS. COUNTY ATTORNEY, THEY ALL HAVE SAID THIS IS LEGAL, IT'S NON-BINDING, BUT IT GIVES THE PEOPLE A VOICE. I'VE SEEN RESOLUTIONS ABOUT PEOPLE IN NEIGHBORHOODS, ABOUT SOMEBODY'S DOG, ABOUT ALL KINDS OF THINGS. THIS IS A WAY TO RECOGNIZE THE PEOPLE'S VOICES IN THE PROCESS OF THIS. THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM MAYOR GREENBERG. THIS DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE ACTIONS OF CHIEF HUMPHRIES AND THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON OR ANYTHING IN THAT THIS DOES NOT INTERRUPT THE PROCESS OF WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING. THIS IS WHAT THE PEOPLE HAVE ASKED FOR, AND I'M ASKING FOR YOUR SUPPORT. I KNOW THAT WE WANT TO BE DONE AT 530. SOME OF YOU DON'T EVEN WANT TO HAVE TO VOTE ON THIS, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE COMMITTED TO WITH THE COMMUNITY, AND I WANT TO SEE IT THROUGH BECAUSE THEY HAVE ASKED ME TO. I AM N GOING TO BE INSULTED. GO BACK AND FORTH. I'VE JUMPED THROUGH HOOPS PIAGENTINI HAS ASKED ME FOR AN ETHICS OPINION. I GOT THAT OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE ASKED ME FOR DIFFERENT PIECES. THE COMMUNITY HAS ADDRESSED ALL OF THAT IN THIS AMENDED RESOLUTION THAT I'VE SENT OUT TO YOU. IT IS JUST THOSE WORDS. WE'VE TAKEN OUT ANYTHING AROUND MONEY, AROUND SPENDING. IT'S REALLY JUST ABOUT WHAT IS LEFT THAT WE CAN ADDRESS. THAT IS WHAT I WANT YOU TO CONSIDER AS YOU'RE VOTING. SOME OF YOU HAVE SAID THE LANGUAGE. THIS IS NOT MY LANGUAGE. IT IS THE LANGUAGE FROM A DOJ INVESTIGATION AND REPORT THAT EVERYBODY ACCEPTED. IT'S ON THE POLICE WEBSITE. WE'RE WE'RE DOING WE'RE SPENDING WE'RE GOING TO SPEND ALL THIS MONEY ON THIS. THAT'S NOT MY WORDS. IT'S THE COMMUNITY HAS SAID, SHAMIKA, CAN WE GET THIS PASTOR GO? CAN WE SEE A FORMAL RECOGNITION OF WHAT HAPPENED? WE ALL TALK ABOUT THE EXPLORER PROGRAM. WE TALK ABOUT SO MANY OTHER ISSUES THAT HAVE HAPPENED OVER THE YEARS, AND SOME OF YOU HAVE DONE MEANINGFUL WORK. COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI SAID TO ME YESTERDAY, I BROUGHT SOME THINGS UP. I KNOW SOME OF YOU HAVE WORKED ON YOU WORKED ON THE NO MORE KNOCKS. THAT WAS UNANIMOUS. THAT IS DIFFERENT. AND THIS DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM THAT. AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE IRRITATED BY THIS PART OF THE PROCESS WHEN IT COMES FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS, CONSTITUENTS FROM EVERY ONE OF YOUR DISTRICTS. ALL OF OUR 26 DISTRICTS SUPPORT THIS. THIS IS NOT PERSONAL. I'VE NOT MADE NO DEALS OR ANYTHING. SO I IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT IS SPECIFIC TO THE AMENDMENT THAT THE PEOPLE PUT TOGETHER, I HAVE NO OTHER COMMENTS TO CONVINCE YOU BECAUSE SOME OF YOU HAVE ALREADY MADE UP YOUR MIND. I'M ASKING YOU TO CONSIDER THE PEOPLE IN THIS AUDIENCE, THE PEOPLE THAT THIS IS OUR TURN IN HISTORY TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT BY OUR COMMUNITY. THAT IS ASKING US TO RECOGNIZE THOSE DOCUMENTED HARMS. IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, THAT'S ON YOU. I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE YOU LOOK BAD, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY YOU ALL DON'T CARE, BUT I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING THAT STOPS THIS LEGISLATION AS A RESOLUTION THAT IS NON-BINDING, NONE OF YOUR ISSUES, AND I'VE TALKED TO MANY OF YOU, HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT. AND IT DOES NOT SEPARATE. IT DOES NOT STOP WHAT THE MAYOR IS DOING. AND THAT'S SEPARATE. THIS IS ABOUT RECOGNIZING THAT AS A COUNCIL THE MAYOR HAS A ROLE. WE ARE WE HAVE TWO BODIES THAT HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF POWER. WE ARE THE LEGISLATIVE BODY, AND WE DECIDE THE BUDGET AND WE DECIDE THE ORDINANCES AND THE RESOLUTIONS. THE MAYOR AND HIS TEAM ASK THEM OUT. HE'S DOING HIS PART. WHERE IS OUR PART? AND THAT'S WHAT I'M ADDING TO WITH THIS RESOLUTION. THAT IS IT. AND I WANT TO BE OUT OF HERE AND JUST BE HONEST WITH [01:50:04] YOURSELF. IT'S NOT ABOUT SHAMIKA. I DON'T NEED THIS WIN. I'M NOT RUNNING FOR MAYOR OFF OF THIS. I DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL OF THIS MESS. I'M DOING THIS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE HAVE ASKED ME AGAIN AND AGAIN. CAN WE GET RECOGNIZED? CAN WE? YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT HAS HAPPENED? CAN WE HAVE THAT DOCUMENTED? THAT IS ALL THIS IS. THANK YOU. COUNCILWOMAN JENNY MULVEY WILL REACH, PLEASE. THANK YOU, CHAIR. AND THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN COUNCILWOMAN RICE, FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER AND MAKING THE CHANGES THAT I KNOW THAT MANY OF HAVE BROUGHT FORWARD. I THINK MY QUESTIONS, I HEAR THAT WHAT HAS HAPPENED ISN'T BEING RECOGNIZED OR BEING HEARD. AND I THINK FROM WHERE FROM WHERE I STAND AND PEOPLE I'VE TALKED TO WHERE THAT COMES INTO PLAY IS FIRST IT HAS BEEN HEARD BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY COMMITMENT HAD BEEN MADE. AND THAT'S A PUBLIC ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT, YES, THERE WERE ISSUES AND THERE WERE REFORMS THAT WERE NEEDED AND REFORMS THAT HAD BEEN MADE. SO AND THAT'S BEEN VERY PUBLIC, THAT HAS BEEN THAT HAS BEEN PUT OUT THERE NOT ONLY IN DOCUMENT BUT IN, YOU KNOW, ON THE NEWS. AND THE MAYOR HAS COME OUT IN FORWARD AND SAID WHAT THE CHIEF HAS COME OUT AND SAID, SO I THINK THAT'S BEEN VERY PUBLIC, THAT IT'S COME OUT AND ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT, YES, AGAIN, REFORM WAS NEEDED. REFORM HAS HAPPENED AND REFORM WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN. AND SO AND THE TRACKING OF HOW THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS LAID OUT IN THERE, INCLUDING OF, YOU KNOW, THE COUNCIL BEING INCLUDED IN THAT. SO I'M BY NO MEANS SAYING THAT, THAT THERE WASN'T ISSUES AND THERE AREN'T ISSUES. RIGHT. I THINK WHERE WHERE I SEE SOME OF THIS IS IT'S REFERENCING HERE THAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND IT'S REFERENCED A FEW TIMES, A FEW TIMES IN HERE. BUT I KNOW THAT THAT WAS DISMISSED, RIGHT? THAT YES, THERE WERE SOME THINGS THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THERE, BUT ULTIMATELY THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS WERE DISMISSED. SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE PART OF MY PART OF MY ISSUES ARE HERE. AGAIN, NOT SAYING. SO PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU'RE WATCHING ONLINE, YOU'RE HERE IN PUBLIC OR NOT, THAT THAT I DON'T THINK THAT THERE WERE THINGS THAT WERE NEEDED. THE JUST A FEW OTHER THINGS IN HERE THAT I HAD. AND I GUESS PERSONALLY I'M LOOKING AT LIKE THE NUMBER FIVE HERE, IT'S LMPD OFFICERS RESPECT THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF ALL PERSONS, INCLUDING PROTESTS. BUT IT'S THERE'S NOTHING THAT STATES. WHAT DOES THAT PROTEST MEAN. IS IT A CIVIL PROTEST. IS IT AN UNCIVIL PROTEST? DOES THAT MEAN WE'RE OKAY TO BLOCK STREETS AGAIN? DOES THAT MEAN WE'RE OKAY TO VIOLATE THE OFFICER'S FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS? AGAIN, JUST I THINK SOME OF ITS LANGUAGE. RIGHT. AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO CONNECT A LITTLE BIT YESTERDAY AND WE'RE ABLE TO BUT I THINK THAT'S WHERE SOME OF IT COMES, COMES INTO PLAY AGAIN, BY NO MEANS. OR DO WE WANT TO VIOLATE ANYONE'S FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. BUT I KNOW MY HUSBAND WAS DOWN THERE AS AN OFFICER, AND HIS HIS RIGHTS ARE VIOLATED BY THE FACT OF HAVING THINGS THROWN AT HIM, THROWN AT HIM, SPIT ON, YOU KNOW, BIOHAZARDS THAT WHEN HE CAME HOME, HE HAD TO TAKE SHOWERS IN THE BASEMENT TO NOT BRING STUFF UPSTAIRS. SO THAT PUT MY RIGHTS IN JEOPARDY AND MY HEALTH IN JEOPARDY. SO AGAIN, I DON'T I THINK THAT WE CAN HAVE CONVERSATIONS ON THIS, BUT THIS IS WHERE WHERE MY, MY ANGST IS ON IT. AND AGAIN, THE FACT THAT I DO THINK WE'VE HAD SOME PUBLIC ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO WE DO NEED TO CONTINUE TO MOVE TOGETHER AS A FORCE TOWARDS THESE REFORMS. COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI, PLEASE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. LOOK, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME JUST START BY SAYING WE HAVE DISAGREEMENTS ON THIS COUNCIL. THAT'S NATURAL. WE DO IT IN A RESPECTFUL WAY. I CAN LITERALLY HEAR WHISPERINGS FROM PEOPLE IN THE GALLERY USING PROFANITIES AGAINST MY COLLEAGUE. AND I WOULD ASK EVERYBODY TO REFRAIN FROM DOING THAT. AGAIN. MR. CHAIR, IF WE COULD HAVE QUIET IN THE GALLERY, PLEASE. WE HAVE TO HAVE QUIET IN HERE. I'M GOING TO HAVE YOU REMOVED. HAVE THEM REMOVED, PLEASE. YEAH. LISTEN, SO MANY TIMES WE GOT. CAN WE GET MORE SECURITY IN HERE? YOU STILL RUNNING IT? HOW ABOUT THAT? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. YOU CAN CONTINUE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I DO UNDERSTAND THAT RESOLUTIONS ARE NON-BINDING, BUT I WOULD. BUT THE IDEA THAT RESOLUTIONS DON'T SPEND MONEY IS NOT. NOT 100% ACCURATE. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. THE GREEN ENERGY OR CLEAN ENERGY RESOLUTION, WHICH I VOTED AGAINST. THAT RESOLUTION HAS CREATED POLICIES AND BUDGETARY IMPACTS FOR MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. SO I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THAT'S NOT YOUR INTENTION. I AGREE THAT'S NOT YOUR INTENTION. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THE THAT FORMER THAT EVEN CURRENT MAYORS HAVE TAKEN RESOLUTIONS AND PUT IN AND EXPENDED HUGE DOLLARS BEHIND THEM. I APPRECIATE THAT THE PEOPLE WANT A VOICE. WE JUST NEED TO BE CLEAR. RESOLUTIONS ARE THE VOICE OF THOSE THAT VOTE ON IT IN THE COUNCIL WHO REPRESENT THEN THE WHOLE [01:55:04] COMMUNITY. OKAY. AND AGAIN, I THINK THERE'S SOME DISAGREEMENT HERE AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS. IT'S JUST DISAGREEMENT. I DON'T NECESSARILY, FOR EXAMPLE, AGREE THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD. WE WOULDN'T BE DOING ANY REFORMS IF THE PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN HEARD AND THE PEOPLE CLEARLY HAVE, BECAUSE WE'RE HALFWAY THROUGH MOST OF THE REFORMS THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED. JUST TO POINT OUT A FEW OF THE A FEW, I DO WANT TO START WITH AREAS OF AGREEMENT, THOUGH. FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE NEW VERSION IS MUCH BETTER, IS VERY DIFFERENT, AND I APPRECIATE MY COLLEAGUE DOING THAT. I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT ONE PORTION OF THIS, WHICH IS WHOLLY ACCURATE, AND I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONFUSION. AND MY GOAL PARTIALLY MY GOAL HERE IS TO ELIMINATE CONFUSION ABOUT THE PROCESS. AND YOUR SECTION TWO IS 100% RIGHT THAT IT'S THE LOUISVILLE METRO COUNCIL PROVIDES LOCAL OVERSIGHT OF ANY EXECUTIVE BRANCH FUNCTION. WE HAVE HAD INVESTIGATIONS INTO LMPD, INTO TARC, INTO LOUISVILLE METRO ANIMAL SERVICES. I COULD KEEP GOING ON, AND THIS WILL BE ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT PARTICULARLY GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY, WHICH HAS SUBPOENA POWER, SHOULD HAVE OVERSIGHT OVER. BUT THE CONFUSION, I THINK WHAT MY COLLEAGUE WAS GETTING AT PARTIALLY IS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN ONE OF THE WHEREAS CLAUSES, DECEMBER 12TH, 2024. NOW YOU DO DATE IT. SO I THINK THAT HELPS CLARIFY. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ANNOUNCED AN AGREEMENT TO RESOLVE THEIR FINDINGS THAT LOUISVILLE METRO AND LMPD ENGAGE IN A PATTERN OR PRACTICE OF VIOLATIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION AND FEDERAL LAW. EXCEPT AND HERE'S WHERE THE CONFUSION LIES. THE CURRENT DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS HAS NOT MOVED FORWARD WITH THOSE FINDINGS, AND THIS WAS NEVER ADJUDICATED IN COURT. THAT AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE DOJ PULLED BACK ON THEIR FILING IN COURT RELATED TO PROVING WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS TRUE. THAT IS AN ALLEGATION THAT WAS MADE, NOT THAT IT WAS EVER ADJUDICATED AND PROVEN. WITH THAT SAID, WE STILL NEED TO EXECUTE REFORMS. AND AGAIN, I THINK YOU OUTLINED SOME OF THE THINGS HERE THAT ARE RIGHT OUT OF THE A LOT OF THE HEADLINES ON THE REFORMS. BUT I DO THINK YOU HAD MENTIONED THIS AS ONE OF MANY STEPS. IF WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING AS A COUNCIL, WHAT I WOULD ASK IS THAT WE DO ONE THING AND MOVE FORWARD, RIGHT? WE HAVE A PROCESS. QUITE FRANKLY, WE DON'T HAVE TO PASS A THING. WE HAVE A PROCESS OF OVERSIGHT THAT EXISTS REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING WE PASS. BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO PASS SOMETHING, WHAT I DON'T WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN IS WE PASS SOMETHING HERE. THEN ANOTHER COUNCIL MEMBER WANTS TO PASS SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THEN WE'RE HAVING ANOTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT ANOTHER ASPECT OF IT. WE NEED TO DELIBERATE ON THIS AND MAKE A DECISION ON HOW WE'RE MOVING FORWARD, AND THEN MOVE FORWARD IN THAT MANNER. AND AS IT IS CURRENTLY, I WOULD NOT VOTE ON THIS VERSION OF THAT BECAUSE I THINK I KNOW THERE ARE OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT WANT TO DO OTHER THINGS. SO I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE VETTED OUT AND THEN WE VOTE. BUT I'M ALSO NOT INTERESTED IN DELAYING THIS. I'M GLAD TO VOTE WHENEVER YOU'RE READY TO VOTE, FRANKLY. SO I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU. I DO NOT WANT TO PUT YOU IN A POSITION WHERE IT'S GETTING DRAGGED OUT FOREVER. THAT'S UNFAIR TOO. SO WE SHOULD VOTE ON THIS IN THE NEAR FUTURE. SO THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN J.P. LEININGER, PLEASE. THANK YOU. CHAIR. I'M A CO-SPONSOR OF THIS. OBVIOUSLY, I SUPPORT ITS PASSAGE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE HARMS THAT HISTORICALLY THESE ARE THESE ARE STATEMENTS OF FACT. DOCTOR. DOCTOR KATE FOSSIL'S REPORT IS THESE ARE STATEMENTS OF FACT. THESE ARE THESE ARE RESEARCHED. THESE ARE THINGS THAT HAPPENED. THESE ARE HISTORIC HARMS GOING BACK BEFORE OUR LIFETIMES. THESE ARE PROBLEMS THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE CITY OF LOUISVILLE IN UNEQUAL JUSTICE IN OUR CITY. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE AGREEMENT THAT THE CITY AND LMPD ENTERED INTO THE DISMISSAL WAS NOT AGAINST THE FINDINGS OF THE DOJ FROM THE PREVIOUS DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THAT DISMISSAL WAS ENTIRELY ABOUT THE PROCESS AND THE OVERSIGHT THAT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE FROM THE COURT. AND THAT'S WHAT THE CITY DID NOT OBJECT TO THE DISMISSAL. OTHERWISE, THE CITY HAD ACCEPTED THE FINDINGS. AND THAT THAT IS THAT IS A STATEMENT OF FACT. THAT IS WHAT THE CITY DID. AND LMPD HAS AGREED TO THE REFORMS. I WOULD LIKE TO ALSO POINT OUT THAT WHEREAS CLAUSES UNDER ROBERT'S RULES, THEY'RE WINDOW DRESSING, THEY DON'T EXIST. THEY THESE ALL ALL WHEREAS CLAUSES EXIST IN TERMS OF ADORNMENT. THEY ARE NOT ACTIONABLE. THEY EVEN IN A IN A RESOLUTION OR AN ORDINANCE, WHEREAS CLAUSES DON'T DON'T ENTER INTO WHATEVER YOU VOTE ON. BUT FUNDAMENTALLY, WE HAVE NOT AS OUR BODY, AS OUR BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT ACKNOWLEDGED THE HARMS. PEOPLE CAN'T MOVE ON. PEOPLE CAN'T MOVE ON FOR [02:00:01] HEALING. PEOPLE CAN'T MOVE ON FOR FORGIVENESS WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF HARM. THIS IS JUST PART OF BEING HUMAN. I THINK THAT WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE HARMS AND THEN WE CAN MOVE ON THIS RESOLUTION. AND YES, I DO THINK ADDITIONALLY, WE DO NEED ACTIONABLE ORDINANCE ADDRESSING WHAT OUR ROLE IS AND GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY ROLE WITH THE INDEPENDENT MONITOR. BUT ANY MONEY THAT'S GOING TO BE SPENT AS A RESULT OF THIS RESOLUTION IS ALREADY IN MOTION WITH THE MAYOR'S OFFICE HAS ALREADY BEEN APPROPRIATED BY THIS BODY FOR THAT PURPOSE. SO I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT ANY KIND OF FINANCIAL REPERCUSSIONS OF PASSAGE. WHAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT IS WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE DOING OUR JOB IN TERMS OF ACKNOWLEDGING THOSE HARMS. AND THEN, YES, I DO BELIEVE WE SHOULD PASS AN ORDINANCE, ALTHOUGH I HAVE HEARD FROM MEMBERS WHO WANT A TIGHTER PROCESS AND TO HAVE LESS MOTION FROM THIS BODY ON THE QUESTION THAT THE RESOLUTION AND AN ORDINANCE DON'T MEET AND THAT THAT THESE ARE SEPARATE CONCERNS. SO I HOPE THAT THAT IS NOT A HOLD UP BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN I HAVE I HAVE RECEIVED THAT FEEDBACK FROM MEMBERS ACROSS THE BODY. BUT BUT I DO URGE NOW THAT WE MOVE THIS TO COUNCIL AND IT GETS VOTED UPON AND THE PEOPLE CAN SEE HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR RESOLUTION. THANK YOU. BEFORE I CALL ON THE NEXT ONE, I JUST WANTED TO SAY. FOR WORDS. CIVILIAN REVIEW AND ACCOUNTABILITY ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD. IT'S CALLED CRAB. WE PAY THE OFFICE OF INTERNAL GENERAL A LOT OF MONEY TO INVESTIGATE OUR OFFICERS. WE'RE ALREADY DOING IT. COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI, PLEASE. SHE'S SHE. YOU'RE NEXT. COUNCILWOMAN HAWKINS YES, I'M GOING TO SAY MY COLLEAGUE HAS WORKED TREMENDOUSLY HARD ON THIS. SHE'S LISTENED TO THE PEOPLE, AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE VOTED IN TO DO. SO I WILL BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS. JAMAICA. COUNCILWOMAN SHAMIKA PARISH. RIGHT, PLEASE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. AND THANK YOU ALL. I KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT THE EASIEST THING TO TALK ABOUT. WE MUST REMEMBER THAT THESE ISSUES DIDN'T START WITH US, AND IT'S JUST OUR TURN TO DO OUR PART ALONG THIS PROCESS. AND WE ARE A BODY THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO FILE, FILE, FILE. WE DON'T HAVE A SHORT LEGISLATIVE SESSION OR A LONG. ALL OF OUR LEGISLATIONS ARE LEGISLATIVE. SESSIONS ARE LONG, SO THINGS WILL BE BROUGHT UP. I CAN'T CONTROL WHAT OTHER COUNCIL PEOPLE WILL DO. ALL I CAN DO IS BE OPEN AND INCLUSIVE. I WANT TO SAY THOUGH, I KNOW YOU BROUGHT UP THE FINANCIAL ASPECT. THIS IS AN WE'VE TAKEN ANYTHING ABOUT MONEY OUT OF THERE. THIS HAS THIS DOESN'T DO THAT. AS COUNCILMAN LINENGER SAID, THAT PROCESS, WE GAVE MONEY IN PART OF THE BUDGET FOR THE INDEPENDENT MONITOR LAST YEAR. SO THAT'S MOVING. THIS IS SEPARATE YOU ALL. IT'S A RESOLUTION, THE ORDINANCES TO HELP CODIFY THE PROCESS AND ALL THAT. THOSE ARE GOING TO BE ORDINANCES THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON THAT DOESN'T THIS DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM THAT. THIS DOESN'T DO ANYTHING BUT RECOGNIZE THE PEOPLE'S VOICE, WHICH WE'RE HERE TO REPRESENT. I WOULD JUST I WANTED PEOPLE TO SEE THE THOUGHT. I APPRECIATE THE DEBATE. I DO WANT YOU TO VOTE ON THIS, BUT I ALSO WANT YOU TO TAKE ONE LAST CONSIDERATION. NONE OF YOU HAVE ASKED ANYTHING THAT REALLY WOULD CHANGE THIS RESOLUTION. YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT THE LANGUAGE SAYS, BUT THE LANGUAGE ISN'T. IT'S FROM A REPORT THAT WAS ACCEPTED BY OUR CITY GOVERNMENT THAT HAS THAT. WE HAVE PUT MONEY TO THE FINDINGS AND THE AND THE DIFFERENT REFORMS THAT'S ALREADY BEEN ACCEPTED. THIS IS OUR BODIES TURN TO RECOGNIZE THAT IN THAT WAY. YES, YOU'RE RIGHT, COUNCILWOMAN COUNCILWOMAN MURRAY WOOLRICH, THE MAYOR HAS SAID AND DONE THINGS, AND THE CHIEF HAS SAID AND DONE THINGS. THIS IS DIFFERENT. THAT'S THEY ARE THE PART OF THE ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS TO APPLY WHAT WE DO. WHAT HAVE WE SAID AND DONE, AND WHERE CAN WE FIND THAT? AND THAT IS WHAT THIS RESOLUTION IS ABOUT. SO THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE. AND THANK YOU, MISTER CHAIR, FOR GIVING US THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THIS PART THROUGH. I'LL OFFER AN AMENDMENT. OH, I THOUGHT IT OKAY. I WANT TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE AMENDMENT THAT HAS BEEN OFFERED THAT WAS PRESENTED BY THE PEOPLE'S CONSENT DECREE COALITION. THANK YOU. OKAY. MOTION HAS BEEN PROPERLY MOVED. SO WE WANT TO VOTE A VOICE ON THE AMENDMENT. THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. I THOSE IN FAVOR AGAINST NAY. THE AYES HAVE IT. NOW WE'RE FOR THE RESOLUTION AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THAT A. CAN WE JUST CALL THE QUESTION. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING. WE'RE READY TO VOTE AND WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT. WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT VIA VOICE ROLL CALL. WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT VIA ROLL CALL. WOULD YOU OPEN UP THE ROLLS, PLEASE? [02:05:08] VOTING IS OPEN. COMMITTEE MEMBER SHANKLIN. WOW. JERUSALEM. YOU HAVE FOUR YES AND FIVE NO VOTES. THE RESOLUTION FAILS. IT STILL GOES TO OLD BUSINESS. IF THERE'S NO OTHER FURTHER BUSINESS. THIS [Adjournment Note: Agendas are followed at the discretion of the Chair. While an item may be listed, it does not mean all items will be heard and/or acted upon by the Committee.] MEETING IS ADJOURNED. WE WILL BE BACK NEXT WEDNESDAY, JUNE 18TH AT 4:00. YOU BEAT ME UP THERE. GOSH. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.