May 08, 2025 Budget Committee (trimmed)

[Call to Order]

[00:00:05]

GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M COUNCILMAN KEVIN CRAMER. THIS IS THURSDAY, MAY 8TH. IT IS 433. I'M. WE'RE STARTING THE BUDGET COMMITTEE MEETING. AND THEN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE BUDGET COMMITTEE MEETING, WE WILL WE WILL BEGIN THE FIRST THE FIRST BUDGET HEARINGS FOR THE FOR THE

[Roll Call]

COUNCILWOMAN WOOLRIDGE, COUNCILMAN. COUNCILMAN. HUDSON. COUNCILWOMAN MCCRANEY.

COUNCILMAN LINENGER. I THINK THAT'S IT FOR COUNCILMAN SAM. I THINK THAT'S IT FOR IN CHAMBERS.

AND THEN JOINING ME ONLINE IS COUNCILWOMAN SHAMIKA PARISH. RIGHT? I THINK THAT'S EVERYBODY.

GREAT. SO WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND DIVE IN. SO I'M GOING TO ASK THAT THE CLERK READ INTO THE RECORD THE VIRTUAL MEETING RULES. THIS MEETING IS BEING HELD PURSUANT TO CRS 61.826 AND COUNCIL RULE FIVE A READ IN FULL. THANK YOU. WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND MOVE THROUGH THE AGENDA THE WAY IT IS BEFORE YOU. SO THE FIRST COUPLE ITEMS I BELIEVE WILL BE PRETTY QUICK.

AND WE'LL MAKE SURE WE HAVE TIME TO CARRY ON SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT THE MSD'S REQUEST. SO

[1. O-092-25     AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 100, SERIES 2024, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2024-2025 OPERATING BUDGET, BY TRANSFERRING $3,000 FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT FUND (DISTRICT 14) TO THE LOUISVILLE METRO COUNCIL GENERAL OPERATIONS (DISTRICT 14). Action Required By: October 24, 2025 Sponsors: Crystal Bast (R-14) ]

[2. O-093-25     AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 100, SERIES 2024, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2024-2025 OPERATING BUDGET, BY TRANSFERRING $5,000 FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT FUND (DISTRICT 13) TO THE LOUISVILLE METRO COUNCIL GENERAL OPERATIONS (DISTRICT 13). Action Required By: October 24, 2025 Sponsors: Dan Seum, Jr. (R-13) ]

VOTE. MADAM CLERK, PLEASE OPEN THE VOTING. VOTING IS OPEN. COUNCILWOMAN PEARCE. RIGHT? YES.

COUNCILMAN MCCRANIE. YES. COUNCILMAN. OWEN. YES, COUNCILMAN. HUDSON. Y CHAIR.

KRAMER. YOU HAVE TEN YES VOTES. YES. GREAT. THANK YOU. THAT'LL GO TO THE CONSENT CALENDAR. ITEM

[3. O-094-25     AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 101, SERIES 2024, AND ORDINANCE NO. 100, SERIES 2024, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2024-2025 CAPITAL AND OPERATING BUDGETS, RESPECTIVELY, BY TRANSFERRING $106,228.58 FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT FUND (DISTRICT 13) TO THE CAPITAL INFRASTRUCTURE FUND (DISTRICT 13). Action Required By: October 24, 2025 Sponsors: Dan Seum, Jr. (R-13) ]

[4. O-095-25     AN ORDINANCE APPROVING THE THIRTY-FIFTH SUPPLEMENTAL SEWER AND DRAINAGE SYSTEM REVENUE BOND RESOLUTION ADOPTED BY THE BOARD OF THE LOUISVILLE AND JEFFERSON COUNTY METROPOLITAN SEWER DISTRICT AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE OF THE DISTRICT’S SEWER AND DRAINAGE SYSTEM REVENUE AND REVENUE REFUNDING BONDS, SERIES 2025. Action Required By: October 24, 2025 Sponsors: Kevin Kramer (R-11),  Markus Winkler (D-17)]

[00:05:02]

OUR CURRENT BOARD MAKEUP, WE HAVE THREE REPUBLICANS, THREE DEMOCRATS AND TWO INDEPENDENTS.

AND MSD AS AN ORGANIZATION IS NOT A PART OF THE BOARD APPOINTMENT OR BOARD APPROVAL OR BOARD OF SELECTION PROCESS. BUT OUR BOARD DOES GOVERN OUR ANNUAL BUDGET, OUR RATES, OUR POLICIES, AND ALL OF OUR INITIATIVES, WHICH ARE REALLY REVIEWED NOT ONLY BY THE FULL BOARD, BUT BY INDIVIDUAL COMMITTEES THAT ARE PART OF OUR CHARTER. THIS SERIES OF BONDS FOR 2025 WOULD BE THERE TO FUND PORTION OF OUR FISCAL YEAR 26 CAPITAL PROJECTS, WHICH I'LL GO THROUGH IN A SECOND, AND REFINANCE BONDS FOR SOME INTEREST SAVINGS THAT WE HAVE OUTSTANDING. AND WE ALSO HAVE COMMERCIAL PAPER. WE'VE TALKED TO YOU ABOUT US UTILIZING THAT AS A TOOL. AND SO WE HAVE A CERTAIN LIMIT ON COMMERCIAL PAPER THAT EVERY PERIODICALLY WE HAVE TO CONVERT THOSE INTO BONDS AS WELL. SO THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE REVENUE BONDS UNDER CR 76. THE BONDS SHALL BE AUTHORIZED BY OUR BOARD BY RESOLUTION. AND THEN BEFORE BONDS ARE ISSUED, IT HAS TO BE AUTHORIZED BY ORDINANCE PASSED BY THE LEGISLATIVE BODY OF THE CITY AND APPROVED BY THE MAYOR.

THE BONDS AND OTHER OBLIGATIONS OF THE SEWER DISTRICT SHALL NOT CONSTITUTE AN OBLIGATION OR AN INDEBTEDNESS TO THE CITY OR THE COUNTY OF JEFFERSON. OUR PRELIMINARY SCHEDULE FOR THIS 25 REVENUE BOND SERIES IS TO TRY TO GET THROUGH THE METRO COUNCIL ORDINANCE PROCESS IN MAY, MEETING WITH OUR RATING AGENCIES IN JUNE AND GOING TO THE COMPETITIVE BOND SALE AND CLOSING IN AUGUST OF THIS YEAR. ONE OF THE DRIVERS OF OUR BOND PROGRAM OR OUR DEBT PROGRAM, 90% OF OUR CAPITAL PROGRAM IS REGULATORY OR MANDATORY BY DIFFERENT BODIES. AND WHEN WE DO THAT WORK, IT IS DICTATED BASED UPON STUFF FROM EPA OR THE STATE OF KENTUCKY, OR THE AIR

[00:10:04]

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE POINT OUT IS, IS THAT WE AS WE ISSUE THESE BONDS AND IF WE DON'T ISSUE THESE BONDS, IT COULD END NOT ONLY END UP INTO PENALTIES, BUT IT CAN ALSO REQUIRE THE NEED TO INCREASE OUR REVENUES TO BE ABLE TO DO THE OBLIGATIONS. OR IF IT'S NOT APPROVED, IT COULD RESULT IN A RATING DOWNGRADE, WHICH WOULD HAVE A CATASTROPHIC IMPACT TO OUR FINANCIAL POSITION. AN EXAMPLE ON THAT WOULD BE IS THAT IF WE GET DOWNGRADED ONE MARK, OUR OVERALL COST FOR OUR FIVE YEAR PROGRAM WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY 20 SOME MILLION DOLLARS IF WE WERE TO GET DOWNGRADED. ONE MARK AS AN EXAMPLE AND A BOND RESOLUTION APPROVAL DOES NOT DICTATE A RATE, PERCENTAGE OR MESSAGE BY THIS BODY. WE WILL BE PRESENTING OUR BUDGET TO THE MSD BOARD, FINANCE AND INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE NEXT WEEK, AND WE WILL BE PRESENTING OUR FINAL RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE FULL BOARD ON MAY 27TH. THERE'S BEEN SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ISSUANCE OF DEBT VERSUS CASH FINANCING. WE DO HAVE A BOARD POLICY THAT ADDRESSES AND SETS OUT POLICY AND PROCEDURES ON HOW WE PROCEED TO ISSUING DEBT, OUR DEBT ISSUANCE POLICY ENSURES THAT EACH BOND ISSUE IS MEETS ALL OF OUR LEGAL REQUIREMENTS, AND ENSURES OUR FINANCIAL STRENGTH. SO OUR FINANCIAL PLAN IS TO HAVE A MIX OF DEBT AND CASH, SPREADING OUR COST OUT OVER TIME, AND ENSURES THAT RESIDENTS BENEFIT FROM IMPROVEMENTS, SHARE IN THE COST RATHER THAN PLACING FULL COST ON THE CURRENT RATEPAYER. DEBT FINANCING ALLOWS IMPROVEMENTS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH LOWER RATES NOW THAN WOULD BE REQUIRED IF PROJECTS WERE ENTIRELY CASH FUNDED. SO WE KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A TARGET OF TRYING TO HAVE MORE CASH FINANCING. AND AS IT IS EVIDENT THAT OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS, WE HAVE MOVED FROM 95% BOND ISSUE TO OUR TARGET OF 75% BOND ISSUE. SO WE ARE EMPLOYING MORE CASH FINANCING. BUT ELIMINATING DEBT FINANCING MEANS RATES MUST BE HIGHER NOW OR IMPROVEMENTS WOULD BE DELAYED. AND THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM. REGULATORILY AND ALSO IMPLICATIONS FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

WHEN WE LOOK AT OUR BUDGETS, WHERE DOES OUR USER FUND RATES GO? 37% GOES TO THE OPERATION AND STAFFING OF OUR WASTEWATER COLLECTION, TREATMENT AND DRAINAGE AND FLOOD PROTECTION SYSTEM. THOSE THREE UTILITIES, 36% GOES TO OUR BONDS OR OUTSTANDING DEBT AND LOANS THAT WE HAVE TO REPAY. 19% GOES INTO THE ENGINEERING, SERVICES, DEVELOPMENT AND CAPITAL PROJECTS. ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES INCLUDES OUR ALL OF OUR BACK OFFICE FUNCTIONS FOR THE THREE UTILITIES AND 1% TO THE RESERVES. THIS SLIDE IS REALLY JUST INFORMATION. AND IF I COULD JUST POINT OUT THE VERY LAST LINE, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DEBT FUNDING PERCENTAGE KIND OF GIVES YOU THE TARGET OF HOW WE'RE TRYING TO BE MORE RELIANT ON CASH FINANCING. BUT GIVEN THE SIZE OF OUR PORTFOLIO OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEAR WINDOW, THE BOTTOM LINE TELLS YOU OUR TARGET FOR HOW MUCH WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ISSUE IN CASH VERSUS HOW MUCH WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ISSUE WITH DEBT. AND SO FOR FISCAL YEAR 26, WE'RE COMING IN AT ABOUT 79%. OUR OVERALL TARGET IS TO BE AT 75% OR LOWER AS WE MOVE OUT THROUGH THE NEXT 5 TO 10 YEAR WINDOW. AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, 90% OF OUR REQUIREMENTS ARE REGULATORY DRIVEN. AND AGAIN, THIS JUST KIND OF SPREADS OUT OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. THE BOTTOM BOTTOM LINE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PERCENT OF OUR OVERALL CIP FOR FISCAL YEAR 26 IS AT 90% IS REGULATORILY MANDATED. AND I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT APPROXIMATELY $49.3 MILLION ARE REQUIRED UNDER AN AGREED ORDER. WE JUST SIGNED WITH THE AIR POLLUTION CONTROL DISTRICT TO MINIMIZE ODORS THROUGHOUT OUR SEWER SYSTEM. ONE OF THE MAJOR PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR FIVE YEAR CIP THAT'S UNDER CONSTRUCTION IS OUR PADDY'S RUN FLOOD PROTECTION SYSTEM. THIS IS JUST A SNAPSHOT OF OUR OVERALL FLOOD PROTECTION SYSTEM THAT WAS COMMISSIONED OR AUTHORIZED IN 1938, AND A LOT OF THE ODOR FLOOD PUMP STATIONS WE

[00:15:01]

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE PUT OUT THERE IS THAT AS WE ARE DOING THIS WORK, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS. WE'RE PARTNERING WITH THE LOUISVILLE WATER COMPANY THROUGH OUR DROPS OF KINDNESS PROGRAM AND THE LOUISVILLE WATER FOUNDATION TO MAKE SURE THAT NOT ONLY ARE WE ABLE TO PROVIDE RATE ASSISTANCE, BUT WE CAN GIVE FLEXIBLE PAYMENT OPTIONS AND GRANTS THROUGH THE LOUISVILLE WATER FOUNDATION AND FUND THOSE THAT ARE NEEDED THROUGH COMMUNITY SERVICES. OUR MSD BUDGET HAS ABOUT $1.9 MILLION IN OUR BUDGET FOR CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE, AND WE CONTINUALLY LOOK AT THAT TO SEE IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO IMPROVE. I CAN TELL YOU THAT APPROXIMATELY 8000 HOUSEHOLDS RECEIVED ASSISTANCE IN OUR SERVICE AREA, AND THERE'S A LIST OF PROJECTS THAT, I MEAN, A MAP OF CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE THAT KIND OF SHOWS YOU THAT A LOT OF FOLKS ACROSS JEFFERSON COUNTY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS BENEFIT AND OF THIS PROGRAM. SO, MR. CHAIR, THAT IS JUST SORT OF

[00:20:02]

THANK YOU. I'VE GOT JUST ONE TO KIND OF GET US STARTED. I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO FOLKS IN THE COMMITTEE. CAN YOU SPEAK JUST A LITTLE BIT TO THE SURCHARGE YOU MENTIONED WITH LGA? I THINK I'M CLEAR ON WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT JUST FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHO. YEAH. THE FIRST TIME THEY HEARD WAS LGA SURCHARGE. I'LL LET BRAD TRY TO EXPLAIN THAT. THANK YOU. SO WHEN WE HAVE TO ACTIVATE OUR FLOOD PUMP STATIONS, OBVIOUSLY IT'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY TO OPERATE THE FLOOD PUMP STATIONS. AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT TIERS OF SURCHARGES THAT APPLY. SO IN A FLOOD EVENT WHEN WE'RE RUNNING THOSE PUMPS 24 SEVEN, WE INCUR A VERY HIGH AMOUNT OF DEMAND FOR ELECTRICITY OF THOSE PARTICULAR PUMP STATIONS. THE WAY LGA, I'M PROBABLY NOT GOING TO DO A GREAT JOB OF EXPLAINING IT, BUT LGA RATE STRUCTURE IS SET UP THAT YOU PAY A PORTION OF THOSE PEAK DEMAND CHARGES BECAUSE LGA HAS TO HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO DELIVER THAT MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY TO THAT LOCATION WHERE YOU NEED IT. SO THOSE ONCE WE HAVE RESET A NEW LEVEL OF PEAK DEMAND, WE'RE GOING TO PAY THAT HIGHER LEVEL FOR THE NEXT THREE, NEXT 12 MONTHS, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT WE TURN THE PUMPS ON OR NOT. SO AFTER THE FLOOD EVENT, WE STILL HAVEN'T GOT OUR FIRST ELECTRIC BILL POST FLOOD EVENT. BUT BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW IN OUR READING OF THE TARIFFS, WE THINK THAT'S GOING TO ADD ABOUT $3 MILLION THAT WILL BE PAYING JUST TO HAVE THAT ELECTRICITY AVAILABLE TO US OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS. OKAY. SO AGAIN, IT'S YOU'RE NOT PAYING FOR ELECTRICITY, YOU'RE PAYING FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE ELECTRICITY AT THE LEVEL THAT YOU MAY NEED IN, IN AN, IN AN UNUSUAL EVENT. AND SO THEY'RE JUST SAYING WE HAVE TO ASSURE THAT HAPPENS. AND THEY'RE ASSOCIATING A COST WITH A QUESTION FOR LGA IS WHAT COST DO THEY ACTUALLY INCUR VERSUS WHAT CHARGE ARE THEY PASSING ON TO YOU. BUT AGAIN, THAT'S NOT YOUR QUESTION. THAT'S THEIRS. AM I DO I HAVE THAT RIGHT? YOU HAVE IT RIGHT. AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING WITH THEM FOR THE LAST 8 OR 9 YEARS. AND OBVIOUSLY IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS VERY IMPACTFUL. AND WE KNOW THAT EVENTUALLY WE MAY HAVE TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AT THE PSC, BUT IT IS VERY IMPACTFUL TO OUR LOCAL RATEPAYERS. THANK YOU. AND THE MOST RECENT HIT WAS YOU'RE PROJECTING $3 MILLION FOR THAT ONE EVENT. YES. THE SURCHARGE GOING UP. YES. WE REALLY HAVEN'T BEEN IN THIS SITUATION SINCE THE 2018 FLOODS, WHICH WE DID HAVE EXTENSIVE, EXTENSIVE CONVERSATIONS WITH LGA FOLLOWING THAT EVENT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW HOW WE COULD AVOID THOSE CHARGES. BUT IT'S OBVIOUSLY WE HAVEN'T HAD A MAJOR FLOOD EVENT IN SEVERAL YEARS. SO GREAT.

THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN PIACENTINI. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I WANT TO START WITH JUST A NITPICKY THING, AND I'M GOING TO SORT OF ASK THIS OF ANYBODY THAT COMES AND PRESENTS IN FRONT OF US MOVING FORWARD, LIKE SLIDE 24, FOR EXAMPLE. YOU LIKE, CUT OFF EASTERN JEFFERSON COUNTY, LIKE YOU HAVE AN MSD, YOU HAVE AN MSD TREATMENT STATION THAT DOESN'T EVEN FIT ON THE MAP THE WAY THE WAY YOU HAVE IT CUT. SO LIKE HALF MY DISTRICT ISN'T ON THAT PICTURE. SO I JUST ASK EVERYBODY TO BE COGNIZANT OF CAPTURING THE WHOLE COUNTY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WHOLE COUNTY. SURE. CURRENTLY, THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE IS EXECUTING AN AUDIT OF MSD. IS THAT CORRECT? WE HAVE WE HAVE NOT HAD ANY CONVERSATIONS YET ABOUT A STATE AUDIT. YOU'VE NOT HAD ANY CONVERSATIONS WITH THE STATE AUDITOR ABOUT AN AUDIT YET? NOT YET. OKAY. SO WELL, WE'LL FOLLOW UP WITH STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE ON THAT BECAUSE SHE SAID SHE WAS GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT. BECAUSE HERE'S WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY. WELL, LET ME ASK ONE MORE QUESTION. YOU SAID NEXT MONTH MAYBE YOU'RE MAKING THE RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD RELATED TO THE BUDGET, ACTUALLY THIS MONTH, IN MAY. THIS MONTH, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE RECOMMENDING AS FAR AS RATE INCREASE? WE HAVE NOT MADE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS YET. WE DO HAVE OUR COMMITTEE MEETINGS NEXT WEEK. AND I CAN TELL YOU, JUST AS I AS I MENTIONED, ABOUT THE LGA SURCHARGE AND THE COST OF THE FLOOD PROTECTION, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE ARE TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION AS WE DISCUSS WITH OUR BOARD NEXT WEEK. LET ME MAKE SURE I'M CORRECT. YOU'RE MAKING THE RECOMMENDATION. WHAT DAY OUR COMMITTEE IS NEXT THURSDAY, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, WEDNESDAY. AND THEN OUR FULL BOARD MEETS ON MAY 27TH. YOU'RE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION NEXT WEEK. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT RECOMMENDATION YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE YET. WELL, WE HAVE WE HAVE ALTERNATIVES

[00:25:01]

THERE WILL DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY NEED TO BE NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BONDS BUT BECAUSE OF THE CAPITAL REQUIREMENTS. OKAY. SORRY, YOU JUST TRIGGERED ANOTHER QUESTION. I THOUGHT YOU SAID A SECOND AGO THIS BOND ISSUANCE WILL NOT IMPACT RATES. THAT WAS IN BOLD. NO, I SAID THIS BOND RESOLUTION THAT YOU'RE APPROVING WOULD NOT IS NOT AN ACT ON RATES. IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WILL BE DISCUSSING WITH OUR BOARD, OUR FINANCING AND INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE NEXT WEEK, AND THEN MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO OUR BOARD ON THE 27TH. OKAY. I'M VOTING FOR THIS BECAUSE IT IMPACTS THE PROJECT THAT CLEARLY NEEDS TO BE DONE RIGHT. I'VE BEEN ON THE RECORD THAT I DON'T. I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT MSD AT A MACRO LEVEL, IS OPERATING IN A FISCALLY EFFICIENT MANNER. THAT'S WHY I SUPPORTED OTHERS IN CALLING THE STATE AUDITOR TO CONDUCT AN AUDIT. I THINK WE NEED TO GET WE NEED TO CIRCLE BACK WITH THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT'S MOVING FORWARD QUICKLY, BECAUSE I AM DEEPLY CONCERNED. I MEAN, I WAS LOOKING BACKWARDS IN YOUR BUDGET TO SEE WHAT THE INCREASES IN COSTS HAVE BEEN. AND OF COURSE, SOME OF THAT IS DRIVEN BY CERTAIN CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE CANNOT CONTINUE THE WAY WE'RE GOING. AND I, I NEED TO BE MORE CONVINCED. BUT THESE ARE TWO SEPARATE CONVERSATIONS I WANT TO BE CLEAR WITH WITH MY CONSTITUENTS, WITH MY COLLEAGUES. I MAY NOT BELIEVE THAT THAT YOU NEED TO TAKE THE SAME INCREASE AS YOU BELIEVE, BUT I DO BELIEVE WE NEED TO GET THIS PROJECT DONE. SO I'M GLAD TO VOTE ON THIS. BUT I'M ALSO GLAD TO SEE AND I WILL CIRCLE BACK WITH THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE TO FIND OUT WHAT THE TIMING LOOKS LIKE ON THE AUDIT. TO ENSURE WE GET MUCH MORE VISIBILITY INTO THE MORE MACRO ECONOMIC SITUATION OF MSD, SO WE CAN GET OUR HANDS ON THESE CHRONIC RATE INCREASES. SO THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN WINKLER. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE PERCENTAGE OF YOUR BOTH YOUR CAPITAL AND OPERATING BUDGET THAT MAYBE IS MADE UP OF FEDERAL GRANTS OR OTHER FEDERAL FUNDING AND ANY POTENTIAL IMPACTS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL ON YOUR BUDGET AND LONG TERM CAPITAL PLANS. THANK YOU, MR. WINKLER. YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, WE DID GET AN INFLUX OF SOME SOME GRANTS AFTER THE BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL WAS PASSED A COUPLE YEARS AGO. AND I THINK I SHOWED WHERE WE WERE. WE HAD RECEIVED ALMOST $14 MILLION IN CLEAN, CLEANER WATER GRANTS. WE ALSO ARE MAXIMIZING THE USE OF THE. SRF PROGRAM, WHICH IS A VERY LOW INTEREST LOAN PROGRAM. THE CHALLENGE WITH THE STATE SRF PROGRAM IS THAT THEY HAVE A LIMIT IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH MONEY THEY CAN GIVE OUT, AND SO I THINK WE'VE RECEIVED SO MUCH MONEY THAT WE ARE APPROACHING THE CAP. FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK WE MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR ANOTHER 15 OR $20 MILLION IN LOW INTEREST LOANS FROM THE STATE. THERE'S ALSO SOME FORGIVABLE LOANS THAT WE'VE GOTTEN. THERE'S SOME EARMARKS THAT WE HAVE TALKED TO. FOR EXAMPLE, SENATOR MCCONNELL ABOUT, AND ALSO REPRESENTATIVE MCGARVEY ABOUT. SOME OF THOSE FUNDS HAVE BEEN ON HOLD. WE HAVE MONEY THAT HAS BEEN, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY, AUTHORIZED FOR THE FLOOD PROTECTION SYSTEM, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE ARE STILL LOBBYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN GET SOME OF THAT MONEY APPROPRIATED. IT WOULD GO A LONG WAY IN HELPING US ADDRESS THE OUTDATED FLOOD PROTECTION SYSTEMS. THERE IS A CHALLENGE, BECAUSE WE JUST FOUND OUT LAST WEEK THAT THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION HAS REDUCED THE OVERALL SRF PROGRAM THROUGH EPA BY OVER $300 BILLION, AND THAT'S GOING TO TRICKLE DOWN TO THE STATES AND IMPACT OUR ABILITY THERE. BUT THERE IS A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURE NEED THERE. AND ACROSS THE SPECTRUM, WHETHER IT'S STORMWATER, WASTEWATER, IF YOU LOOK AT THE INFRASTRUCTURE GRADE GIVEN BY THE AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS, THE GRADE OF NATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE FOR WASTEWATER IS LIKE A D OR D MINUS, AND FOR STORMWATER AROUND A D. AND SO IT'S NOT LIKE THE INFRASTRUCTURE GETTING ANY BETTER. AND IN FACT, WE'RE HOPING THAT WE CAN GET NUMBER ONE. WE CAN GET THE CLEAN WATER SRF PROGRAM REAUTHORIZED AT THE CURRENT LEVEL. AND WE HOPE THAT THERE WOULD BE ADDITIONAL MONIES THAT WOULD BE COMING THROUGH THE WATER RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT ACT OR THROUGH THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO SUPPORT FUNDING FOR FLOOD PROTECTION SYSTEM. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, SIR?

[00:30:02]

COUNCILMAN HUDSON, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. MY QUESTION IS GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A LEFT TURN HERE. PROBABLY, BUT DATA CENTERS ARE BECOMING VERY POPULAR IN A LOT OF PROPOSALS BEING PLACED. I KNOW OF AT LEAST TWO IN THE METROPOLITAN AREA BEING PROPOSED. DATA CENTERS PLACE AN INCREDIBLE BURDEN ON THE ELECTRICAL GRID, ON THE WATER GRID. AND I HAVE TO THINK ON ON WASTEWATER TREATMENT GRID. IS THERE A STRATEGY IN PLACE TO PUT THE BURDEN OF THE COST OF THAT BURDEN OF UTILITY BURDEN ON THE OWNERS OF THOSE DATA CENTERS RATHER THAN ON THE RATEPAYERS OF METRO LOUISVILLE? I'M GOING TO TRY TO HIT THAT ONE. DAVID JOHNSON, OUR CHIEF ENGINEER, HAS BEEN ENGAGING A LITTLE BIT WITH ONE OF THE DATA CENTERS THAT ARE PROPOSED HERE. TRY TO ADDRESS YOUR QUESTION. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN HUDSON DAVID JOHNSON, CHIEF ENGINEER WITH MSD. YES. SO WHEN THESE DATA CENTERS COME IN, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT KIND OF FLOW THEY'RE GOING TO PUT INTO OUR SYSTEM. IF THEY USE WATER COOLED FACILITIES, THEN THE FLOW TO OUR SYSTEM IS VERY, VERY HIGH. BUT IF THEY USE AIR COOLED IT'S VERY LOW. BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES, THE DEVELOPER OF THE PROPERTY HAS TO PAY FOR THE SEWER CAPACITY AS WELL AS ANY UPGRADES TO THE SYSTEM THAT SERVE THEIR FACILITY. IT IS NOT ON THE BURDEN OF THE RATEPAYERS. GOOD TO HEAR. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I DON'T SEE ANYONE ELSE IN THE QUEUE, BUT I HAVE JUST TWO REAL QUICK QUESTIONS. THE FIRST IS WHEN WILL BE WHEN WILL WE BE FREE OF THE CONSENT DECREE WITH THE EPA? THE CURRENT CONSENT DECREE THAT WE HAVE FOR THE I GUESS YOU COULD SAY, THE CSO PROGRAM, ALL THE PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE AGREED TO, THE MILESTONE DATES IN IN 2035. AND I THINK AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE NO CONTROL OF ANY OTHER NEW REGULATIONS THAT ARE GOING TO COME DOWN THE ROAD. BUT OUR CURRENT CONSENT DECREE ENDS IN 2035, AND I'M GUESSING IT WOULD BE OVERLY HOPEFUL TO THINK THAT WE COULD FINISH THAT EARLY.

WELL, OUR MILESTONES ARE, YOU KNOW, BASED UPON A SCHEDULE THAT WE'VE LAID OUT, A LOT OF PROJECTS DO FINISH BEFORE THE SCHEDULED MILESTONE. IF THERE'S NO PROBLEMS DURING CONSTRUCTION OR IF THERE'S NO DELAYS IN TERMS OF SUPPLY CHAIN AND THOSE TYPE OF THINGS, WE HAVE BEYOND JUST THE MORE FORMAL PLANT AND ALSO THE BELLS LANE PROJECT, WE HAVE ONE MORE LARGE PROJECT BEFORE THE END OF THE CONSENT DECREE, WHICH IS ANOTHER DEEP TUNNEL PROJECT OUT IN THE SAINT MATTHEWS AREA. AND IT'S TOO FAR OUT, OBVIOUSLY, TO PREDICT HOW THAT SCHEDULE WILL GO. BUT WE'RE OPTIMISTIC THAT WE ARE OPTIMISTIC THAT ALL OF THE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE AGREED TO WILL BE DONE BY THEN OR BEFORE THEN. OKAY. GREAT. THANKS. I THINK THAT'S THAT WAS IT FOR ME.

ANY OTHERS? GREAT. THANK YOU. BEFORE WE TAKE A VOTE, I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY A COUPLE DIFFERENT COUNCIL MEMBERS. WE WERE JOINED A BIT AGO BY COUNCILWOMAN CHAPPLE AND COUNCILWOMAN BAST. SINCE THEN, COUNCILMAN BATSON HAS COME IN. COUNCILMAN BENSON HAS COME IN, AND WE'RE JOINED BY COUNCILMAN JOSEPH. I BELIEVE THAT CAPTURES EVERYBODY. OKAY, GREAT. IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, THEN THIS IS AN ORDINANCE CALLING FOR A ROLL CALL. VOTE. MADAM CLERK, PLEASE OPEN THE VOTING. SO VOTING IS OPEN, COUNCILMAN. PARISH, RIGHT? YES. COUNCILWOMAN MCCRANEY. YES. CHAIR. KRAMER, YOU HAVE TEN. YES. THANK YOU. THIS WILL GO TO CONSENT. WITHOUT OBJECTION. IT'LL GO TO CONSENT ASSEMBLY. OKAY. THE LAST ITEM THAT WE'RE GOING TO DEAL WITH

[5. O-103-25     AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 118, SERIES 2010, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2010-2011 CAPITAL BUDGET, ORDINANCE NO. 115, SERIES 2017, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2017-2018 CAPITAL BUDGET, ORDINANCE NO. 072, SERIES 2020, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2020-2021 CAPITAL BUDGET, ORDINANCE NO. 088, SERIES 2021, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2021-2022 CAPITAL BUDGET, ORDINANCE NO. 084, SERIES 2022, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2022-2023 CAPITAL BUDGET, ORDINANCE NO. 080, SERIES 2023, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR 2023-2024, ORDINANCE NO. 101, SERIES 2024, RELATING TO THE FISCAL YEAR  2024-2025 CAPITAL BUDGET, AND ORDINANCE NO. 095, SERIES 2017, BY TRANSFERRING FUNDS BETWEEN PROJECTS AND ESTABLISHING NEW PROJECTS. Action Required By: October 24, 2025 Sponsors: Anthony Piagentini (R-19),  Scott Reed (R-16)]

[00:35:03]

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. SO HOPEFULLY YOU ALL RECEIVED VIA EMAIL FROM BETH. DID YOU SEND IT OUT? YEAH. SO BETH STEINBERG SENT OUT HAS A DESCRIPTION AND THEN A CHART BROKEN DOWN BY PROJECT. I'LL BE GLAD TO GO PROJECT BY PROJECT IF EVERYBODY WANTS THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL. BUT TO SUM IT UP, AS YOU WELL KNOW, THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS IN PRIOR YEARS HAS PULLED CIF DOLLARS AND PUT THEM INTO INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS. THIS WAS SORT OF A CLEANUP, LARGELY OF SURPLUS FUNDS IN COMPLETED PROJECTS AND THEN MOVING THEM TO OTHER PROJECTS. YOU CAN SEE THEY ARE DETAILED HERE, BUT SO THIS HAS NO IMPACT ON THE BUDGET. THERE'S NO INCREASE OR DECREASE TO ANYTHING. THIS IS SIMPLY MOVING MONEY AROUND FROM PROJECTS THAT DIDN'T NEED THE FUNDS TO PROJECTS THAT WE HAD PLANNED THAT HAVE NOT BEEN FUNDED YET. SO AND THESE ARE ALL FROM, AS YOU HEARD PRIOR YEAR BUDGET CIF FUNDS. SO GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, BUT BASICALLY JUST CLEANING UP THINGS FROM THE CIF FUNDS. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN MCCRANEY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I JUST WANT A CLARIFICATION AND I. I ASKED THE QUESTION EARLIER, BUT I WAS AWAY FROM MY OFFICE, SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS ANSWERED IN THAT BREAKDOWN AT THE END. IT WAS A D 27. CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS? OH, SORRY. I CAN I WILL DEFER TO BETH DENBERG TO EXPLAIN WHERE D 27 YES. THANK YOU. YES. AND I DID SEE YOUR EMAIL. THANK YOU. BETH STEINBERG D 27, REFLECTS THAT IT'S THE REPUBLICAN POOL OF CAPITAL PROJECTS THAT, FOR INSTANCE, THE TOURS THAT ARE ON HERE ARE PAVING. AND ANOTHER ONE WAS SIDEWALKS. BUT WE USE THE D 27 SO THAT IT ALL DISTRICT FUNDED PROJECTS HAVE A D AND THEN THEIR DISTRICT NUMBER. SO IT'S JUST TO RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S FROM THE REPUBLICAN POOL. SO 27 BECAUSE THERE'S 26 DISTRICTS I GUESS I JUST PICKED THE NEXT NUMBER OKAY. YEAH. LET ME REASSURE EVERYBODY. THERE'S NO CONSPIRACY TO CREATE A 27TH DISTRICT. OH BUT YEAH. SO JUST AN ACCOUNTING GIMMICK BECAUSE WE HAVE TO PUT IT SOMEPLACE. BUT YEAH, IT'S AND YOU'LL SEE THAT IT LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, I'M PICKING ON ONE OF THE LINES BUT IT SAYS E 27. AND JUST FOR THOSE THAT ARE LOOKING AT THE CHART, REPUBLICAN PAVING AND DISTRICTS. 1116, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24 SO IT IS STIPULATING WHICH DISTRICTS. BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL THE AT LEAST DURING THAT FISCAL YEAR THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS DISTRICTS. SO.

GREAT. THANK YOU. AND THEN THERE WAS AN AMENDMENT THAT COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI WANTED TO OFFER, AND I THINK HE WAS GOING TO ASK THE HE WAS GOING TO ASK BETH IF SHE WOULD EXPLAIN THE AMENDMENT.

RIGHT. YES. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR AN AMENDMENT, AND THAT WOULD LIKE TO JUST TO ELABORATE ON THE AMENDMENT. THANK YOU. IT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING SO MANY THINGS TOGETHER, SOMETHING ALWAYS GETS LEFT OUT SOMETIMES. SO WE HAD ONE OF THE ORDINANCE ITSELF WAS NOT IN BALANCE WHEN YOU HAD FIRST READING. SO THE DOCUMENT YOU'RE LOOKING AT NOW IS IN BALANCE. AND SO IT'S JUST AN AMENDMENT. HOLLY MAY, MAY WANT TO ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT IT'S JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS ORDINANCE IS IN BALANCE BECAUSE YOU CANNOT PASS ONE THAT'S NOT. HOLLY HOPKINS WITH THE JEFFERSON COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. AN AMENDMENT WAS NEEDED BECAUSE IT WASN'T JUST NUMBERS THAT WERE OUT OF BALANCE. THERE WAS AN ENTIRE ORDINANCE THAT HAD NOT BEEN REFERENCED IN THE BODY OF THE ORDINANCE AND THE TITLE, AND IT'S BEEN ADDED, AND THE ORDINANCE IS NOW IN BALANCE. GREAT. AND IT'S NOT A TECHNICAL AMENDMENT. WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY MAKE IT AS AN AMENDMENT. SO I HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR FOR AMENDMENT. I NEED A SECOND GREAT PROPERLY MOTION. SECONDED. ANY CONVERSATION ABOUT THE ORDINANCE THAT'S BEFORE US WITH THE AMENDMENT. OKAY. CAN WE CAN WE GET A VOTE ON THE AMENDMENT,

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