May 06, 2025 Planning and Zoning Committee

[Call to Order]

[00:00:03]

RAYMOND, ONLINE COMMITTEE MEMBER BETSY RUBY, COMMITTEE MEMBER KEVIN BRATCHER, COMMITTEE MEMBER

[Roll Call]

[3. O-099-25     AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO THE ZONING OF PROPERTIES LOCATED AT 5004 CAMP GROUND ROAD AND 4100 BUBBLING OVER DRIVE CONTAINING APPROXIMATELY 0.38 ACRES AND BEING IN LOUISVILLE METRO (CASE NO. 24ZONE0108). **Council Member Tammy Hawkins (D-1) can vote on this zoning change** Action Required By June 1, 2025 Sponsors: Andrew Owen (D-9) ]

THERE WAS ALSO A WAIVER AND A DETAILED DISTRICT DEVELOPMENT PLAN. THERE'S ONE PARCEL AND A PORTION OF A CONTIGUOUS PARCEL INVOLVED WITH THE CHANGE IN ZONING. THERE IS A SINGLE FAMILY STRUCTURE ON THE SITE. IT IS PROPOSED TO REMAIN. THE GARAGE IS PROPOSED FOR AUTO REPAIR. AND THEN THERE'S A PROPOSED ADDITIONAL 1200 SQUARE FOOT STRUCTURE FOR AUTO REPAIR. THIS IS THE APPLICANT'S DEVELOPMENT PLAN, SHOWING THAT ADDITION AND THE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL BUILDING, THIS IS THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. SOME ADJACENT PROPERTIES. THE APPLICANT HELD THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING ON AUGUST 13TH, 2024. THE LAND DEVELOPMENT TRANSPORTATION HAD A MEETING ON NOVEMBER 14TH, 2024 AS WELL AS FEBRUARY 27TH, 2025. THE PLANNING COMMISSION HELD A PUBLIC HEARING ON MARCH 20TH, 2025, WHERE THERE WAS A MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE CHANGE IN ZONING FROM R4 TO C2, PASSING BY A VOTE OF 10 TO 0. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU. JULIA, THIS IS IN COUNCILWOMAN HAWKINS DISTRICT, AND I KNOW SHE'S HERE BECAUSE SHE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO IT. SO YOU HAVE THE FLOOR? YES. THANKS FOR BEING HERE TODAY. OUR ARE THE OWNERS HERE TODAY. THAT LOT AREN'T HERE OKAY. ALRIGHT. I HAD NO OPPOSITION FOR THIS AT ALL. I THINK THIS THE NEIGHBORHOOD NEEDS SOMETHING LIKE THIS. SO I'LL DEFINITELY BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? COUNCIL COUNCILWOMAN RUDY THANK YOU. COULD YOU GO BACK TO THE DRAWING OF THE PLAN? I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND ACCESS TO IT. OH YEAH. SO JUST LOOKING AT IT, ARE THEY GOING TO BE DRIVING PAST THE CURRENT GARAGE TO GET TO THE NEW GARAGE? IS THAT THE WAY THAT'S GOING TO WORK? SO THIS IS THIS IS ALL OPEN I BELIEVE. SO THEY'LL BE DRIVING BACK TO THIS GARAGE AND AT THIS GARAGE. SO THEY HAVE TWO BAYS.

WELL, YOU KNOW, TWO OPENINGS HERE AT THE EXISTING GARAGE. AND THEN THEY'LL BE ADDING ON, BUT THE ACCESS WILL BE JUST THROUGH THIS DRIVEWAY, PAST THE HOUSE, BACK TO THE BACK. OKAY. SO THE TWO STRUCTURES WILL BE ATTACHED THEN. YES. IT APPEARS THAT THEY'RE ATTACHED. OKAY. THANK YOU. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT. ANYONE ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT ABOUT THIS ONE, COUNCILMAN BATSON? THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. DO WE NEED TO ADD THE STANDARD BINDING ELEMENT TO THI, THAT FOR ANY ADJUSTMENTS OR ANYTHING IN THE FUTURE THAT NEED TO BE. I GUESS IT'S UP TO COUNCILWOMAN HAWKINS. IF SHE WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT, THAT'LL BE FINE. WE CAN DO THAT. THERE'S

[00:05:02]

I THINK NOW WE'LL GO TO OUR SPECIAL DISCUSSION FOR TODAY. SO HOW IS THAT GOING TO WORK? IS DO

[1. ID 25-0279     TRAFFIC STUDIES – Jennifer Kern, Public Works  Lindsay Walker, Brad Johnson and Jarrod Johnson, HMB Professional Engineers]

BUT WE HAVE BASED IN FRANKFORT, HAVE OFFICES HERE IN LOUISVILLE AND LEXINGTON. SO YEAH, WE WERE WE WERE ASKED TO COME IN AND KIND OF GIVE A INTRODUCTION ON TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDIES, KIND OF OPEN OPEN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS AS, AS WELL. SO I'M BEEN AT THIS OVER 25 YEARS I GUESS KIND OF

[00:10:09]

SO FOR THEM, I'M ACTUALLY HELP REVIEW ALL TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDIES THAT THAT COME IN AND ARE, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY DONE BY BY OTHER CONSULTANTS. SO KIND OF IN A SENSE, IT KIND OF GIVES ME A GOOD PERSPECTIVE OF SITTING ON BOTH SIDES, IF YOU WILL, AS A, AS SOMEONE WHO PREPARES TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDIES, BUT THEN ALSO AS SOMEBODY KIND OF REPRESENTING THE AGENCY AND REVIEWING THOSE AND HAVE DONE THAT FOR SOME OTHER AGENCIES OVER THE, OVER THE YEARS. THAT'S NO PROBLEM. SO JUST KIND OF TO KIND OF JUMP INTO IT, I DON'T WANT TO. GET TOO ELEMENTARY, I GUESS IN THE DISCUSSION, IF EVERYONE'S PRETTY, YOU KNOW, KNOWLEDGEABLE, I CAN KIND OF MAKE SURE. BUT I MEAN, IS THIS JUST TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND THE AUDIENCE HERE? I MEAN, ARE Y'ALL ALL PRETTY USED TO SEEING TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDIES? IS THAT OR IS IT MORE OF, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE JUST KIND OF GETTING THE OVERVIEW OF OKAY. YEAH, ACTUALLY, I THINK IF YOU CAN START WITH BASICS. OKAY. SURE. THAT'D BE GREAT. I MEAN, WE'VE GOT SOME NEW AND FAIRLY NEW COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND A LOT, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE FAIRLY NEW TO THE PROCESS. SO SOME OF THAT BASIC FOUNDATIONAL STUFF WOULD BE HELPFUL. OKAY. AND THAT THAT'S KIND OF THE INTENT. I JUST DID JUST KIND OF WANTED TO DOUBLE CHECK FIRST AND SEE BECAUSE WE CAN KIND OF GET I CAN KIND OF BREEZE THROUGH SOME STUFF QUICKLY AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AND GET INTO SOME MORE Q AND A AND SO FORTH. BUT YEAH, WE'LL JUST LET'S SEE. SO I GOT MYSELF UP THERE AND OKAY, SO YOU KNOW, JUST KIND OF JUMPING IN. IT'S KIND OF A QUICK AGENDA. AND OBVIOUSLY FIRST AND FOREMOST IS JUST WHEN IS IT NEEDED. AND THEN WE'LL GET INTO SOME OF THE DETAILS ASSOCIATED WITH WHAT YOU MIGHT SEE AND SOME OF THE MITIGATION THAT MAY BE REQUIRED AND DISCUSSED IN THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. SO AS FAR AS WHEN IT'S NEEDED. GO AHEAD. YEAH. SO THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS I WANTED TO JUST KIND OF THROW THIS UP THERE. AND I ACTUALLY HAVE A COPY HERE. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS BASICALLY THE SPECIFIC TO LOUISVILLE REQUIREMENTS WERE ACTUALLY DEVELOPED IN THE 90S. AND I'M NOT AWARE OF THOSE REALLY HAVING BEEN UPDATED OVER THAT, YOU KNOW, TIME. SO I ALSO HAVE KIND OF PUT UP THERE THE TRANSPORTATION CABINET KIND OF HAS THEIR OWN SET OF REQUIREMENTS, AND THOSE ARE MORE RECENT. AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY, I MEAN, MOST OF THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDIES I WORK ON ARE LOCAL AND STATE ROUTES, OR AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, IT'S TOUCHING A LOCAL OR STATE ROUTE. SO, I MEAN, IT IS A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT BETWEEN WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, CITY LOUISVILLE OR OTHER, YOU KNOW, BOWLING GREEN, FRANKFORT, OWENSBORO, SOME OF THE OTHER COMMUNITIES I WORK IN AS WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE COLLABORATING WITH THE KENTUCKY TRANSPORTATION CABINET. AND A LOT OF TIMES, THE THEY KIND OF DO DEFAULT TO THE KENTUCKY TRANSPORTATION CABINET REQUIREMENTS AS, AS WELL. BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THERE ARE SOME REQUIREMENTS THERE, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY WOULD BE GOOD TO MAYBE REVISIT THAT IF THAT TRUE. YOU KNOW, UNLESS WE'VE MISSED SOMETHING, IF THEY ARE INDEED 30 YEARS OLD, MIGHT BE GOOD TO REVISIT THOSE OR OR ADOPT.

REQUIREMENTS. BUT BUT BASICALLY THERE'S, YOU KNOW, 4 TO 5 DEPENDING ON WHOSE REQUIREMENTS YOU'RE LOOKING AT, KIND OF CONDITIONS THAT WILL WILL TRIGGER THE NEED FOR A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. AND. KYTC USES 100 TRIPS. AND JUST TO KIND OF POINT OUT THAT THE LOUISVILLE GUIDANCE IS ACTUALLY 200 TRIPS. SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST, YOU KNOW, IN

[00:15:05]

SO IF IT'S A GAS STATION THAT YOU'RE BASICALLY GOING IN AND OUT OF FAIRLY QUICKLY, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S PROBABLY 50 VEHICLES SHOW UP AT A GAS STATION OVER THE COURSE OF AN HOUR. THESE ARE ALL BASED ON, YOU KNOW, PEAK HOURS. SO THAT'S EITHER IN THE MORNING OR MOST LIKELY IN THE AFTERNOON ON A TYPICAL WEEKDAY IS KIND OF THE STARTING POINT FOR THAT. IF YOU'RE DOING EITHER OF THOSE, THEN THAT'S GOING TO KIND OF TRIGGER TRIGGER THAT NEED FOR A TRAFFIC STUDY. AND I'LL SHOW A COUPLE EXAMPLES OF WHAT THE TYPE OF LAND USE THAT THAT MAY DO THAT, THAT KIND OF GETS THAT TO THAT HUNDRED. SO BASICALLY WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, THE KYTC REQUIREMENTS ARE ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE STRICTER, IF YOU WILL, THE 100 BEING LESS THAN THE 200 TO TRIGGER THAT TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. AND THERE'S OTHERS OTHER CONDITIONS AS WELL THAT THAT COULD TRIGGER THAT TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. BUT THAT'S GENERALLY WHERE WE START IS THAT THAT NUMBER OF TRIPS. BUT I MEAN, IF THERE'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, IF THE DEVELOPMENT IS ASKING FOR SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE, THEN GENERALLY THE AGENCIES ARE GOING TO ASK FOR A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. IF THERE'S SOME SOME KNOWN ISSUES ALONG THE CORRIDOR OR JUST, YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS AS A CONGESTED CORRIDOR, THEY MAY KIND OF NO MATTER WHAT, YOU KNOW, REQUEST THAT SAFETY. THERE'S BEEN SOME IDENTIFIED SAFETY. YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN WE ASK QUESTIONS AS IT GOES ON OR WAIT TILL THE END? I THINK WE CAN ASK QUESTIONS.

ABSOLUTELY. AND I THINK ONE OF I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THIS DOESN'T MEET ACCESS, SPACING RECOMMENDATIONS. CAN YOU KIND OF ADDRESS. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN EXACTLY. SURE. ON THE KYTC REQUIREMENT. YEAH WE'LL ASK THAT AND THEN I'LL COME BACK TO YOU. SO THERE IS A TABLE THAT BASICALLY IDENTIFIES AND IT AND IT IS A IT VARIES BY TYPE OF ACCESS. SO IF IT'S A RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT FOR EXAMPLE, THAT CAN BE A SHORTER DISTANCE BETWEEN ACCESS. SO IT'S BASICALLY JUST LOOKING AT INTERSECTIONS. SO IF IT'S TWO SIGNALIZED INTERSECTIONS THEN IT RECOMMENDS THEM TO BE A CERTAIN DISTANCE APART. IF IT'S A RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT THAT CAN BE A LITTLE CLOSER TO A SIGNALIZED INTERSECTION IF IT'S A SIGNALIZED INTERSECTION. SO IT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A MATRIX. AND WE WERE ACTUALLY HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ON THE WAY UP. I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO FIND LOCATIONS WHERE THAT ACCESS SPACING RECOMMENDATIONS ARE, ARE MET. BUT IT IT STILL IT STILL CAN TRIGGER, YOU KNOW, THE JUSTIFICATION TO SAY AT LEAST WE NEED TO STUDY AND YOU NEED TO JUSTIFY WHY YOU CAN'T MEET THOSE ACCESS SPACING REQUIREMENTS. AND I WOULD HAVE TO I DON'T HAVE THOSE ALL MEMORIZED, BUT I THINK IT'S ANYWHERE FROM I THINK LIKE THE SHORTEST IS 600FT TO 1200 TO 2400FT. SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT IN A RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT, THAT'S 300FT FROM A SIGNALIZED INTERSECTION, LET'S SAY YOU CAN'T DO IT. THEY JUST WANT TO SEE A STUDY TO VALIDATE THAT THAT WOULD ALL WORK EFFICIENTLY. DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? WHO DETERMINES THAT? WHO DETERMINES THE WELL, LIKE WHO GENERATES 100 OR OR GENERATES 200 OR MORE PEAK HOUR TRIPS? WHO SAYS IT'S 100? WHO SAYS IT'S 300? OKAY, SO WE HAVE RESOURCES THAT WE USE. WE HAVE THE WHAT WE CALL THE TRIP GENERATION MANUAL THAT WHEN YOU SAY THE ENGINEER. SO I MEAN SO WE WOULD SO LIKE IN THE CASE OF LET'S JUST USE FRANKLIN FRANKFORT COUNTY WORK. SO WHEN THEY GET A ZONING APPLICATION THERE, THEY WILL COME TO, TO ME AND ASK, HEY, DOES THIS DO YOU THINK THIS WARRANTS A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY? AND I CAN QUICKLY KIND OF DO SOME MATH AND I'LL SHOW YOU SOME EXAMPLES OF THAT IN A COUPLE SLIDES HERE AND SAY, YES, IT'S YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS, YOU KNOW, LAND USE THIS WHATEVER NEW CHICK FIL A GOING IN IS GOING TO EXCEED 100 TRIPS,

[00:20:05]

AND, YOU KNOW, THEN WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THAT AND, AND UNDERSTAND THAT A LITTLE BETTER.

YEAH. OKAY. ANY ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS. YEAH. YES, MA'AM. WHAT ARE THE ARE YOU SURE.

THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. SO KIND OF THE STARTING POINT IS, IS GENERALLY 7 TO 9 A.M. AND 4 TO 6 P.M. COUNCILMAN, CAN YOU USE YOUR MIC WHEN YOU CAN YOU ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN AND USE YOUR MIC SO WE CAN HAVE IT ON THE RECORD. THANK YOU. WHAT DO YOU ALL CONSIDER PEAK HOURS FOR TRAFFIC STUDIES? YES. SO IT'S AGAIN IT'S FOR THE MORNING. WE GENERALLY START WITH A 7 TO 9 A.M. IN THE EVENING. WILL WILL CONSIDER 4 TO 6 P.M. IF THERE'S A SCHOOL IN THE AREA. WE WOULD CERTAINLY TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION SCHOOL TIMES. AND IF THOSE ARE OUTSIDE OF THAT, WE JUST WRAPPED UP A STUDY THAT WE DID COUNTS FROM 3 TO 6 TO CAPTURE A MIDDLE SCHOOL LETTING OUT IN THE AFTERNOON, JUST TO SEE IF THAT WOULD HAVE AN INFLUENCE ON THE OVERALL PEAK TIME. ALSO IN IN HEAVY INDUSTRIAL AREAS, YOU MIGHT WHERE YOU GOT SHIFT WORK AND SO FORTH, YOU MIGHT GET AS EARLY AS 6 A.M. SHIFT CHANGES AND THAT MIGHT BE HIGHER TRAFFIC THAN, SAY, THE TYPICAL 8 A.M. TIME. SO AGAIN, IT'S AND MAYBE A GOOD THING TO KIND OF SAY HERE UPFRONT IS MOST AGENCIES DO REQUIRE SOME SORT OF MEETING IN ADVANCE OR BEFORE YOU START THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY TO KIND OF HASH OUT SOME OF THESE, YOU KNOW, CONCERNS OR MAYBE NUANCES THAT WE CAN, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY WILL KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WE'LL DEFINE A STUDY AREA. AND WE DON'T DO THAT IN A, YOU KNOW, IN A VACUUM. I MEAN, SO WE WOULD HAVE A MEETING WITH, WITH LOCAL AGENCY IF, IF IT'S ON A STATE ROUTE, KYTC WOULD BE INVOLVED IN THAT AND REALLY KIND OF DETERMINE, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO COUNT AT THESE TIMES A DAY, WE'RE GOING TO THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR YOU KW, THESE ARE THE INTERSECTIONS THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER. AND JUST, YOU KNOW, SO WE CAN KIND OF DEFINE THOSE THOSE ASSUMPTIONS UPFRONT AND MAKE SURE WE'RE WE'RE ADDRESSING THAT. THERE'S OTHER SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S A HEAVY COMMERCIAL. LOCATION. AND YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER DOING A FRIDAY AFTERNOON OR A SATURDAY ANALYSIS AS WELL. SO I MEAN THERE ARE SOME ABILITY TO REQUEST THAT. OUTSIDE OF THAT TYPICAL TYPICAL PEAK HOUR TIME. SO WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? DO YOU ALL GO TO THE LOCATION? DO YOU USE EQUIPMENT. WHAT WHAT DOES THAT LOOK AT. YEAH. SO WE PRETTY MUCH IN EVERY CASE WE'LL DO DATA COLLECTION. SO WE ARE TYPICALLY DOING TURNING MOVEMENT COUNTS FOR THAT THAT PEAK HOUR OR THOSE DEFINED PEAK HOURS. SO WE ARE IDENTIFYING, YOU KNOW EVERY VEHICLE TURNING. WE'LL TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION TRUCKS SO THAT WE CAN ACCOUNT FOR TRUCK PERCENTAGES AS WELL. AND THEN WE ALSO EVEN DO. AND I HAVE YOU KNOW, I'LL, I'LL POINT THIS OUT IN A COUPLE SLIDES, BUT WE'LL EVEN DO SOME ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS. SOMETIMES WE'LL DO TRAVEL. TRAVEL TIME RUNS ALONG THE CORRIDOR. WE'LL LOOK AT HOW LONG THE QUEUES ARE. SO I MEAN THERE'S SOME OTHER SOME DATA OUTSIDE OF JUST COLLECTING TRAFFIC VOLUMES THAT ARE. BUT IS THAT DONE SOLELY FROM AN INDIVIDUAL, OR DO YOU ALL USE SOME TYPE OF EQUIPMENT TO MAKE THOSE COUNTS? WE MOST OF THAT THESE DAYS ARE CAMERA BASED. SO WE TYPICALLY INSTALL CAMERAS AT EACH INTERSECTION. AND THEN THEY POST THAT DATA USING SOFTWARE.

NOW THAT'S NOT TYPICALLY DONE BY BY HAND ANYMORE. SO THEY HAVE SOFTWARE THAT THAT PROCESSES ALL

[00:25:06]

FHWA, FEDERAL HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION DEFINED PARAMETERS FOR WHAT WARRANTS A SIGNAL. AND THOSE ARE TYPICALLY BASED ON EIGHT HOURS OF TRAFFIC DATA. SO WE MIGHT IN THAT CASE, WE MIGHT ACTUALLY COLLECT TRAFFIC DATA FROM 7 A.M. TO 7 P.M. SO THAT WE HAVE 12 HOURS OF DATA AND CAN THEN, YOU KNOW, SEE IF EIGHT OF THOSE 12 HOURS MEET THEIR THEIR DEFINED WARRANTS. SO THERE IS OPPORTUNITIES TO COLLECT A LITTLE BIT MORE DATA. BUT JUST FROM AN ANALYSIS STANDPOINT, AND WE'LL, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GET INTO SOME OF THOSE DETAILS IN A MINUTE. BUT FROM AN ANALYSIS STANDPOINT, WE'RE TYPICALLY ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT PEAK HOUR DATA. YOU KNOW PEAK HOUR ANALYSIS. SO YOU KNOW WE START DEFINING LEVEL SERVICE OR DELAY. WE'RE TYPICALLY TALKING ABOUT THAT IN TERMS OF THE PEAK HOUR. AND THAT MAY BE IT MAY BE THE MOING. IT MAY BE THE AFTERNOON. WE BUT LET'S TRY TO KEEP IF LET'S TRY TO GET THROUGH THE PRESENTATION ANYTHING. IF THERE'S A SPECIFIC QUESTION ABOUT A SPECIFIC SLIDE, WE CAN STOP AND ASK. BUT LET'S TRY TO GET AS FAR THROUGH THE PRESENTATION AS WE CAN AND ASK QUESTIONS AT THE END SO WE CAN.

OKAY. THANKS, BRAD. WE'RE ALLOWED TO KIND OF JUMP IN. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE SUPER FORMAL THAT JARED AND I CAN HELP YOU WIT FIELDING QUESTIONS TOO. SURE. SO IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE YOU'RE BEING TOTALLY PUT ON THE SPOT. NO, NO. NO WORRIES. OKAY. LET'S GO IN. OKA SO AED T SO THE TIC A FFERENTHINGS. BUT AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO DEFINE THE STUDY AREA. WE WANT TO ALWAYS CONSIDER ANYTHING THAT'S COME BEFORE US. AND THE EXAMPLE I HAVE UP HERE ON THE SCREEN, I DIDN'T I DIDN'T GIVE A FANCY POINTER, I NEED TO CARRY ME A FANCY POINTER. BUT THIS IS ACTUALLY AN EXAMPLE IN IN OWENSBORO, WHICH IS COINCIDENTALLY WHE I'M FROM. BUT THERE'S KIND OF THREE COLORS HIGHLIGHTED HERE, IF YOU CAN SEE THAT, THAT DETAIL. BUT THERE'S KIND OF THE, THE LIGHT GREEN AND THEN AN ORANGE AND A PURPLE.

WELL BASICALLY THE LIGHT GREEN IS DEVELOPMENT THAT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN OWENSBORO. SO AS WE COME ALONG AND ARE PROPOSING A DEVELOPMENT IN IN THE ORANGE AREA THERE. THAT A. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR. AND IN THIS CASE, I THINK THERE WAS, WHAT, FOUR, 4 OR 5 FOUR TRAFFIC STUDIES THAT WE HAD TO ADD INTO THE ANALYSIS BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THAT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED. SO WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT. AND WE CONSIDER THAT AS PART OF THE NO BUILD. SO WE HAVE WE'RE GOING TO GO OUT. WE'RE GOING TO DO COUNTS. THAT'S GOING TO BE ESTABLISH OUR EXISTING CONDITIONS. AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO DEFINE TYPICALLY AGAIN JUST LOOKING AT THE TRANSPORTATION CABINET REQUIREMENTS, YOU'RE GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW IT'S 2025. SO OUR COUNT DATA IS 2025. OUR EXISTING CONDITIONS IS 2025.

WE MAY SAY FIND ME A THANK YOU. WE MIGHT SAY, HEY, THIS IS GOING TO TAKE A YEAR OR TWO YEARS TO DEVELOP. SO OUR, OUR, OUR OPEN YEAR MIGHT BE 2026 2027. AND THEN WE HAVE TO DO 20. WE HAVE TO ADD TEN YEARS TO THAT. SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE LIKE A 2025 ANALYSIS. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A 2027 LET'S JUST SAY, AND A 2037. SO WE HAVE TO ADD INTO THAT BACKGROUND TRAFFIC. ANYTHING THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN APPROVED. SO THAT THAT KIND OF BUILDS OUR OUR NO BUILD. AND AGAIN WE WOULD IN THAT INITIAL REVIEW MEETING, WE WOULD WE WOULD BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, ASK THOSE QUESTIONS.

HEY IS IT WHAT DO WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT'S WE MIGHT WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE BACKGROUND TRAFFIC GROWTH? BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO APPLY A TRAFFIC GROWTH PERCENTAGE TO GET TO THOSE 20, 27, 20, 37 TURNING MOVEMENT VOLUMES. WE MIGHT ASK IF THERE'S ANY SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS THAT THAT WE NEED TO ACCOUNT FOR SO WE CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. THEY MAY HAVE SOME OPINIONS ABOUT THE ACCESS THAT THE, YOU KNOW, THE APPLICANT IS, IS PROPOSING. SO

[00:30:02]

ONE OF THEM WAS A PARTIAL INTERSECTION ALREADY, AND THEN TWO NEW INTERSECTIONS THAT WERE PROPOSED FOR THE DEVELOPMENT. SO WE WERE ABLE TO KIND OF DEFINE ALL THAT UPFRONT. SO THERE REALLY SHOULDN'T BE ANY SURPRISES AS WE AS WE MOVE THROUGH THE PROCESS. SO THIS LET ME OH COOL. I CAN ADVANCE THE SLIDES THAT WAY. YOU'RE OFF THES EARLIER BUT DID I GO TOO FAR I DIDN'T RIGHT. YEAH OKAY. SO FOR ANY OF THE SCENARIOS THAT WE ARE DEFINING, WHETHER IT BE EXISTING CONDITIONS, BUILD NO BUILD WE ARE WE HAVE KIND OF OUR PERFORMANCE MEASURES THAT WE ARE GOING TO PRESENT. AND IN MOST CASES WHAT THE EASIEST ONE THAT FOLKS A CAN KIND OF RELATE TO IS THIS A TO F LEVEL OF SERVICE SCALE. AND THAT IS BASED ON IT'S A SLIDING SCALE. SO ALL THE ANALYSIS WE DO WILL WILL GENERATE A DELAY. IT'S A DELAY PER VEHICLE. SO I MEAN IF YOU'RE PULL UP TO A STOP STOPLIGHT, YOU'RE SITTING THERE FOR 20S WAITING FOR THE GREEN. THEN THAT'S YOU KNOW, YOU'VE INCURRED 20S OF DELAY FOR YOU INDIVIDUALLY. YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE IS HAVING DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES. AND SO THIS IS CREATING AN AVERAGE. AND THEN WE CAN KIND OF TRANSLATE THAT AVERAGE OVER TO AN A TO F LEVEL OF SERVICE SCALE. SO WHEN YOU HEAR, YOU KNOW, STAFF PRESENT A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF THEIR THEIR REPORT, THEY MAY CERTAINLY GO TO THIS, THIS LEVEL OF SERVICE SCALE. AND THAT IS GOING TO BE GENERATED PER INTERSECTION THAT IS INCLUDED IN THE IN THE IN THE ANALYSIS. AND IT ACTUALLY VARIES. LET'S SEE HERE. SO ON THE. MAYBE I SHOULD PROBABLY LESS PEOPLE. LET ME POINT ON THIS SIDE. THERE'S LESS PEOPLE OVER THERE. SO FOR THE SIGNALIZED INTERSECTIONS AND UNSIGNALIZED THERE'S ACTUALLY A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT SCALE. SO AN F AND YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE IN SCHOOL F'S IS GOING TO BE HIGHER DELAY. SO IT ACTUALLY IS 80S PER VEHICLE. WHEREAS FOR AN UNSIGNALIZED IT'S 50S PER VEHICLE. AND BASICALLY THAT THAT'S JUST MEANING THAT PEOPLE HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TOLERANCE OF WAITING LONGER AT A SIGNALIZED INTERSECTION, KNOWING THEY'RE GOING TO GET TO THEY'RE EVENTUALLY GOING TO GET THAT THAT GREEN TO, TO PROCEED THROUGH THE INTERSECTION. BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE THERE. BRAD, DID YOU WANT TO TOUCH ON THE LEVEL OF SERVICE C D SURE. YEAH. LET ME YEAH THAT'S PROBABLY WILL. SO WE DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK TO THAT. BUT SO THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION OF LATE IN PARTICULAR. I MEAN IT'S ALWAYS KIND OF BEEN THE CASE, BUT. IN SOME WAYS, YOU KNOW, IT IS HARD TO DESIGN TO LEVEL A SERVICE. A LET'S SAY, I MEAN, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IF EVERY INTERSECTION AROUND TOWN WAS LEVEL OF SERVICE, A. THEY WOULD BE MONSTER INTERSECTIONS. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN EXPENSE TO THAT, OBVIOUSLY. SO I MEAN, THERE IS KIND OF SOME RULES OF THUMB. I MEAN, THERE'S THIS, YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, THIS COULD BE SET BY AGENCY. IT COULD BE, BUT THERE'S ALSO KIND OF SOME RULES OF THUMB WITH, WITH THE TRANSPORTATION CABINET AS WELL. BUT YOU KNOW, I KIND OF DID NOTE HERE ON THE LEFT AND FORGOT TO POINT THIS OUT. BUT YOU KNOW, LEVEL OF SERVICE C AND D AREN'T BAD. I MEAN, THAT'S YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOMETHING TO A LOT OF TIMES THAT RULE OF THUMBS KIND OF BEAN LEVEL OF SERVICE C AND MORE RULE SETTINGS D AND IN URBAN SETTINGS. SO AGAIN YOU KIND OF HAVE A LITTLE MAYBE A LITTLE HIGHER TOLERANCE IN AN URBAN URBAN SETTING WHERE YOU HAVE A LITTLE MORE CONGESTION. BUT THAT I WORE IT KIND OF TRIGGERS IS WHEN YOU DO GET INTO THAT E AND F, WE, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD LIKE TO IMPROVE THAT IF, IF WE CAN. BUT BUT IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT, YOU KNOW, WHILE WE'D ALL LOVE TO BE STRAIGHT A STUDENTS, IT'S JUST MAYBE NOT FEASIBLE TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT IN THE IN THE TRAFFIC WORLD. I'M NOT GOING TO

[00:35:08]

AND THEN AS WE PROCEED THROUGH THE ANALYSIS THAT, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS WE KIND OF MAINTAIN THOSE, THOSE CALIBRATION ADJUSTMENTS THAT THERE'S THAT CONFIDENCE IN THE IN THE ANALYSIS THAT WE DO NOW, THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A BALANCE THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE THE PERCEPTION THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN CHANGE TOO MUCH THERE, BECAUSE THEN THAT WOULD REMOVE THE CONFIDENCE IN IN WHAT WE DO. SO THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO MATCH THE EXISTING CONDITIONS TO, TO GENERATE THAT CONFIDENCE AND THEN KIND OF HOLD THAT STEADY AS WE PROCEED THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE ANALYSIS. OKAY. SO WE TALKED ABOUT SO WE GOT THE EXISTING CONDITIONS BASED ON WHEN WE DID THE DATA COLLECTION. WE HAVE THE NO BUILD. WE TALKED ABOUT HOW WE WILL LOOK OUT INTO FUTURE YEARS AND ARE REQUIRED TO DO THAT. WE TRY TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION OTHER OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE COME BEFORE, HAVE BEEN APPROVED AND KIND OF LAYER ALL THAT INFORMATION INTO A NO BUILD. SO THEN ONCE YOU CONSIDER THE DEVELOPMENT ITSELF, WHATEVER LAND USE THAT MAY BE OR SETS OF LAND USES, THEN WE GET INTO OUR BUILD ANALYSIS. AND YOU KNOW, THE FIRST PIECE OF THAT IS THE TRIP GENERATION. SO THERE IS A TRIP GENERATION MANUAL THAT IS A NATIONAL RESOURCE THAT, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S GOING TO BE THE SAME ACROSS THE COUNTRY. AND THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF ESSENTIALLY A PAGE OUT OF THAT MANUAL. I'VE KIND OF HIGHLIGHTED SOME, SOME. SO SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSING. SO THAT'S THAT'S ESSENTIALLY THE LAND USE. AND THEN EACH ONE OF THESE LITTLE X'S IS ESSENTIALLY A STUDY. AND THEN IN THIS CASE THERE WAS 208 STUDIES THAT WERE DONE. AND BASED ON ALL THOSE STUDIES THEY CREATED BOTH AN AVERAGE CURVE AND A FITTED CURVE. FANCY YOU KNOW, EQUATION HERE TO REPRESENT THAT, THAT FITTED CURVE SO THAT YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, IN THIS CASE IF WE HAVE A. SO ACROSS THE BOTTOM HERE IS NUMBER OF DWELLING UNITS. SO IF YOU'VE GOT A THOUSAND DWELLING UNITS YOU CAN PROCEED UP TO THE, YOU KNOW TO THE LINE. AND THAT WILL GENERATE THAT NUMBER OF TRIPS. SO YOU KNOW AND IN THIS CASE THE AVERAGE THIS IS A WEEKDAY. PM PEAK. SO THE AFTERNOON IS AN AVERAGE OF 0.94. SO LET'S JUST CALL IT ONE. CLOSE ENOUGH. SO IN ESSENCE 100 SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WOULD GENERATE 100 TRIPS. SO THAT'S BACK TO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. WHAT WOULD KIND OF TRIGGER A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. NOW THERE IS SOME VARIATION OR SOME SOME SUBJECTIVITY TO THIS. SO I MEAN THERE IS SOME ENGINEERING JUDGMENT THAT IS INVOLVED BECAUSE AGAIN WE HAVE TWO CURVES. WHICH CURVE DO YOU USE.

CERTAINLY. LOOK AGAIN TO THE GUIDANCE IS YOU KNOW, DO YOU HAVE TO USE THE MAX. YOU KNOW OF THE TWO. DO YOU, YOU KNOW, IS THERE SOME JUDGMENT THAT YOU KNOW, ONE IN YOUR PARTICULAR BASED ON YOUR PARTICULAR NUMBER OF UNITS? IT SEEMS TO KIND OF FIT ONE CURVE BETTER THAN THE OTHER. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOME, YOU KNOW, WORKING THROUGH, THROUGH THAT. BUT AND THEN THE LAST THING I'LL JUST POINT OUT IN HERE AND I GOT CIRCLED HERE DIRECTIONAL DISTRIBUTION. SO THAT'S BASICALLY SAYING, OKAY, THAT 100 TRIP 100 HOMES GENERATES 100 TRIPS. IN THIS CASE 63 OR ENTERING AND 37 OR EXITING. MAKES SENSE. YOU KNOW, MAJORITY OF PEOPLE COMING HOME

[00:40:03]

THE, YOU KNOW, 66,000FT■!S OF OFFICE SPACE WOULD GENERATE 100 TRIPS. THIS ONE ACTUALLY IS KIND OF A FAILED CONDITION IF YOU IF YOU WILL. BECAUSE. SO THE SHOPPING PLAZA IS ACTUALLY IN THE TRIP GENERATION. IT'S DIVIDED UP INTO THREE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES. IT'S ACTUALLY BELOW 40,000 BETWEEN 40 AND 150 AND THEN ABOVE 150. SO TO GENERATE A 100 HOME I MEAN GENERATE 100 TRIPS YOU ONLY NEED 11,000FT■!S, WHICH ACTUALLY TECHNICALLY KIND OF THROWS YOU INTO THE OTHER, INTO THE LOWER THE LESS THAN 40 CATEGORY. SO I JUST KIND OF POINT THAT OUT TO YOU REALLY. IF YOU HAVE A SHOPPING PLAZA, I'M SORRY, WHAT DO YOU USE FOR MULTIFAMILY? MULTIFAMILY IS A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN SINGLE FAMILY. I DON'T RECALL EXACTLY WHAT THAT PERCENT IS, BUT IT'S I WANT TO SAY AND THERE'S DIFFERENT THERE'S THERE ARE SEVERAL CATEGORIES. SO THERE'S SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED HOUSING. SO LIKE A DUPLEX THERE ARE APARTMENTS, TOWNHOMES. AND EACH ONE OF THOSE IS GOING TO HAVE A UNIQUE RATE ASSOCIATED WITH THEM. YOU KNOW I THINK IT GETS DOWN I WANT TO SAY ONE OF THEM IS LIKE 0.67. SO THERE IS SOME SCENARIOS WHERE IT GENERATES A LITTLE BIT LESS. SO YOU'RE THINKING, YOU KNOW, JUST A KIND OF A LOW RISE APARTMENT COMPLEX.

YOU MIGHT BE GETTING UP MORE INTO THE 160 UNITS TO KIND OF TRIGGER THAT 100, 100 TRIPS. BUT BUT AGAIN, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, MAKES SENSE THAT YOU YOU DO HAVE, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY LESS, YOU KNOW, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, YOU MIGHT HAVE MORE DRIVERS. YOU GOT, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT HAVE, YOU KNOW, DRIVING AGE KIDS MORE, YOU KNOW, MORE OF THEM POTENTIALLY. SO THEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE AN APARTMENT, FOR EXAMPLE. SO I MEAN, IT DOES MAKE SENSE THAT IT'S A LITTLE BIT LOWER, BUT IT'S STILL IT'S STILL IN THAT A POINT SIX THE, YOU KNOW, UP TO THE .94 RANGE. AND LIKE I SAID, THERE'S PROBABLY AT LEAST TEN DIFFERENT CATEGORIES THAT, YOU KNOW, ALL HAVE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT RANGE THERE. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, LAST ONE I GOT I GOT OFF THE LIST HERE FAST FOOD DRIVE THROUGH. SO I MEAN, YOU KNOW MCDONALD'S CHICK FIL A THAT TYPE OF PLACE GENERALLY THOSE ARE GREATER THAN 2200FT■!S. SO AGAIN YOU KNOW, MAY JUST TAKE ONE TO TRIGGER THE NEED FOR A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. SO AND THERE'S I MEAN THERE'S LITERALLY, YOU KNOW, I WON'T SAY HUNDREDS, BUT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, A FEW HUNDRED DIFFERENT LAND USES THAT ARE IN THE TRIP GENERATION MANUAL. WITH THAT BEING SAID, I MEAN, THERE HAS BEEN SOME CASES WHERE WE DON'T USE THE TRIP GENERATION MANUAL. IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC LAND USE.

THEY COME, YOU KNOW, THE APPLICANT COMES FORTH AND THEY MIGHT SAY, HEY, IT'S A LET'S SAY A TRUCKING COMPANY, FOR EXAMPLE. AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY SAY THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS MANY EMPLOYEES, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS MANY TRUCKS A DAY. YOU KNOW, HERE'S THE SHIFT CHANGES, YOU KNOW, AND WE'LL ACTUALLY KIND OF MANUALLY CALCULATE THAT. AND AGAIN THE YOU KNOW EVERYBODY HAS TO AGREE TO THAT. BUT IT MAY NOT BE BASED ON THE TRIP GENERATION MANUAL IN THAT CASE.

SO IT'S JUST AS LONG AS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN GET THE AGENCY BUY IN TO MAKE THAT VARIATION. OTHER CASES I'VE BEEN ASKED BEFORE TO GO DO OUR OWN STUDIES. SO TO GO TO, YOU KNOW, TO A PARTICULAR LAND USE AND, AND COUNT AN EXISTING LOCATION AND THEN APPLY THAT TO, TO A PROPOSED LOCATION.

ONE, I'M KIND OF INTERESTED I. IS A BANK. I MEAN, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU GOTTA

[00:45:02]

SO, YOU KNOW, I'VE KIND OF PERSONALLY SPECULATED THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TRIP GENERATION FOR A BANK IS PROBABLY A LITTLE ON THE HIGH SIDE, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY CONTINUE TO ADD TO THAT. AND, AND HOPEFULLY SOME OF THOSE GET GET ADDRESSED. AND YEAH. DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION, MR. CHAIR? THANK YOU I DO I APPRECIATE ALL THE DATA GENERATION I REALLY DO. BUT IS THERE A CONTROL LOOP ON THE OTHER END OF IT WHERE YOU DO THE TRAFFIC STUDY, YOU BUILD THE BANK OR FAST FOOD RESTAURANT OR WHATEVER, AND THEN A YEAR LATER COME BACK AND VERIFY WHETHER OR NOT YOUR PREDICTIONS WERE ACCURATE OR NOT. THERE REALLY ISN'T. I MEAN, WE DO IT SOMETIMES. BUT WE'RE NOT REQUIRED TO DO IT. AND THE REASON I SAY WE DO IT SOMETIMES IS I HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN ASKED TO UPDATE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDIES. WELL, THE EXAMPLE I GAVE IN OWENSBORO, I MEAN, SOME OF THOSE ARE NOW IN PLACE. SOME OF THOSE LAND USES WE HAD TO CONSIDER IN THE NO BUILD ARE NOW IN PLACE.

SO IT DOES GIVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF SEE, OKAY, THAT'S YOU KNOW, HOW CLOSE WERE WE ON THAT. BUT THERE'S NOT A THE REASON I ASK THE QUESTION IS IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT CONTROL LOOP IN PLACE, HOW DO YOU KNOW? HOW DO YOU KNOW? HOW DO YOU KNOW YOUR TRAFFIC STUDIES ARE ANY GOOD? YEAH. NO, I MEAN, THAT'S A VERY VALID QUESTION. AND I THINK IT'S HELPFUL FOR ME SOMETIMES TO JUST BE ABLE TO, TO DO THAT OCCASIONALLY OR SEE WHEN WE'RE WORKING IN THE SAME AREA AND BE ABLE TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHERE, WHERE THINGS MAY BE A LITTLE HIGH OR, I MEAN, WE HAD ANOTHER EXAMPLE WITH A GAS STATION THAT WAS UNDER CONSTRUCTION. WE WERE DOING A DEVELOPMENT NEARBY. SO WE JUST I WAS DOING THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY FOR THE NEARBY DEVELOPMENT AND HAD TO JUST ASSUME THE TRIP GENERATION FOR THE GAS STATION BECAUSE IT WASN'T OPEN YET. THEN WE HAD TO UPDATE THAT STUDY. A COUPLE YEARS LATER, THE GAS STATION WAS OPEN AND WAS NOT NEAR GENERATING NEARLY THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT WE WERE ASKED TO ASSUME INITIALLY. SO, I MEAN, I WISH I COULD TELL YOU, HEY, IT WAS EXACTLY THE SAME, BUT BUT THAT'S BUT AGAIN, THAT WE JUST KIND OF LUCKED INTO BEING ABLE TO KIND OF HAVE THAT THAT UNDERSTANDING OR, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT DATA POINT, IF YOU WILL, TO TEST THAT. BUT THERE REALLY ISN'T GREAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ISN'T REALLY REQUIREMENTS TO GO BACK AND REVIEW THAT. AND I WISH THERE WAS FOR IT. BUT THIS BODY IS OFTEN ASKED TO JUST ACCEPT THESE TRAFFIC STUDIES ON FACE VALUE AS BEING GOSPEL.

YEAH. AND IF THERE'S NO VALIDATION OF THOSE TRAFFIC STUDIES, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE DO THAT. RIGHT. I CAN HELP JUMP IN ON THIS. GOING BACK TO THAT, THE TRIP GENERATION MANUAL THAT IS PUBLISHED BY IT. SO THOSE WHEN IT SAYS STUDIES ON THERE, THOSE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE GONE ACTUALLY CAN YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF. OH SORRY FOR THE RECORD. SURE. LINDSEY WALKER I THINK BRIAN KIND OF WAS ALLUDING TO THE THREE OF US UP HERE PARTICIPATING WITH HIM. SO I ALSO WORK WITH PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS BRAD AND JARED WITH THE TRAFFIC STUDIES. BUT THE ITE TRIP GENERATION MANUAL, THEY WILL HAVE PEOPLE THAT DO SOMETIMES GO OUT AND COLLECT STUDIES ABOUT HOW MUCH TRAFFIC IS GOING IN AND OUT IN AN HOUR FROM A DEVELOPMENT. SO THEY WILL ASK PERIODICALLY IF PEOPLE HAVE DATA COLLECTED FOR A CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT, SUBMIT IT TO IT, AND THEN THEY WILL TAKE THAT AND INCLUDE IT AS PART OF THEIR EVALUATION OF WHAT THESE TRIP RATES MIGHT BE. SO THAT IS, ON ONE HAND, KIND OF THAT VALIDATION THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR, LIKE, HOW ARE THEY COMING UP WITH ALL OF THIS INSTEAD OF JUST MAKING NOT NECESSARILY MAKING UP NUMBERS? BUT YEAH, WELL, I THINK IT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THESE ARE ALL STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE. THERE'S A PROTOCOL FOR HOW YOU DO THEM. YOU KNOW, IT REVIEWS THOSE. LIKE I SAY, THEY'RE CONSTANTLY BEING UPDATED. SO FROM YOU KNOW, THAT DOES GIVE SOME LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE. BUT YOU KNOW I THINK YOU'RE AT THE SAME TIME YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY THIS IS YOU KNOW, LET'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THEIR

[00:50:05]

BUT THE DEVELOPER WHO'S DOING THE PERMIT, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PAY TO COLLECT THAT INFORMATION AFTERWARDS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO. SO THIS IS JUST A CASE OF WHEREVER PEOPLE DO THESE SPECIFIC STUDIES, IT WILL ASK FOR IT, AND THEY'LL COLLECT AS MUCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE TO PROVIDE THE INDUSTRY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. I GET ALL THAT, BUT EVEN WITH THE LIMITED AMOUNT THAT YOU'VE SHOWN HERE TODAY, A FAST FOOD CATEGORY, WELL, THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT. I WOULD POSTULATE THAT A CHICK FIL A NUMBER OF TRIPS WOULD BE MUCH DIFFERENT THAN A JACK IN THE BOX, AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY THEY'RE BOTH GOING THEY'RE TAKING THAT INTO ACCOUNT IN IN THE NEW VERSION OF THE TRIP GENERATION MANUAL. BECAUSE OF THAT, THAT REASON, THEY, THEY BUT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT AS WELL. THERE ARE DEFINITELY SOME DIFFERENCES IN IN ONE. AND I'M AND I'M SEEING IT LIVE IN A LAND USE IN MY COLLEAGUE'S DISTRICT HERE WHERE SEVEN WHAT'S IT CALLED, A SEVEN BREW. SEVEN BREW. YEAH. IT'S BACKED UP ON BARDSTOWN ROAD FOR BLOCKS, WHEREAS THERE'S A STARBUCKS LITERALLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT THAT IS NOT BACKED UP. SO IT JUST GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT. AND I'M NOT DISCOUNTING THE, THE, THE, THE MANUAL, BUT UNLESS YOU HAVE THAT CONTROL LOOP I JUST YEAH. WELL I THINK THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE IS CERTAINLY WITH THE MANUAL, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME CONTROLS THERE AND THEY'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO IMPROVE THE DATA AND COLLECT NEW DATA. AND, AND YOU KNOW, YOU DO SEE YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, THERE IS AN R SQUARE VALUE THAT KIND OF TELLS YOU, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THAT LEVEL OF ACCURACY.

AND THEY'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, BUT IT IS A LITTLE BIT REACTIVE. I MEAN, YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE SEVEN BREWS ARE RELATIVELY NEW. I MEAN, IT'S A, YOU KNOW, A GOOD EXAMPLE, EVEN CHICK FIL A, I MEAN, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU STILL HAVE TO KIND OF REACT TO THE FACT THAT CHICK FIL A IS LIKE, IT'S JUST IT'S JUST BUSIER THAN SOME OTHER. AND SO IT DOES. THERE IS SOME, SOME LAG TIME, I GUESS, IN COLLECTING THAT NEW DATA AND TRYING TO CREATE A NEW LAND USE THAT'S A HIGH GENERATING FAST FOOD RESTAURANT VERSUS A LOW GENERATING FAST, YOU KNOW, FAST FOOD RESTAURANT. BUT CAN I SAY SOMETHING REAL QUICK? JARED JOHNSON, ALSO AT HMV, AS IT RELATES TO A COFFEE SHOP IN PARTICULAR. AND BRAD WILL GET TO THIS IN A MINUTE. BUT THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED PASSBY TRIPS. AND SO THAT'S TRAFFIC THAT'S ALREADY ON THE ROADWAY. SO, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY THE REASON THE SEVENTH BREW MAYBE IN THE MORNING, SINCE THEY'RE PRIMARILY A MORNING BUSINESS, THE TRAFFIC IS HEADING IN THAT DIRECTION. AND THAT'S WHAT'S CAUSING THAT DISPARITY BETWEEN THE STARBUCKS GOING THE OTHER DIRECTION. AND BRAD CAN GO OVER THAT PASS BY IN THE INTERNAL CAPTURE AS WELL HERE IN A MINUTE. YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S WHERE I'M GETTING TO NEXT. THANK YOU. MR. CHAIR. CAN I ASK ONE QUESTION? YEAH. CAN WE CAN WE TRY? OKAY, I JUST JUST A POINT OF ORDER. ALL THREE OF YOU WORK FOR HMV? YES, SIR. YEAH. OKAY. OKAY, SO AS JARED MENTIONED. SO THERE YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TRIP GENERATION AND SOME OF THE NUMBERS. AND I REALIZE THESE ARE A LITTLE BIT HARD TO READ HERE. BUT THIS IS AGAIN JUST ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT THAT WE'VE WORKED ON TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT LAND USES OFFICE BUILDING, STRIP, RETAIL, SUPERMARKET, FAST FOOD, COFFEE SHOP. YOU KNOW, SO YOU'RE KIND OF COMBINING ALL THOSE. AND I WANT TO AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AS JARED MENTIONED, THERE'S KIND OF INTERNAL CAPTURE AND PASS BY. ADD ALL THAT UP AND YOU KIND OF GET YOUR EXTERNAL TRIPS AND WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL. SO. WELL ACTUALLY LET ME. YEAH I'LL SKIP BACK HERE.

BUT SO INTERNAL CAPTURE. SO THIS IS THE OLD HENRY ROAD. SO THE PUBLIX AND I'VE JUST KIND OF HIGHLIGHTED, YOU KNOW, THE NEW PUBLIX AND SPEEDWAY. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INTERNAL CAPTURE SO,

[00:55:03]

ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. SO AS FAR AS MITIGATION GOES. SO I MEAN WE OBVIOUSLY DO THIS TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. WHAT YOU KNOW, WHAT COMES OF THAT. SO WHAT WE YOU KNOW AGAIN KIND OF LOOKING AT THE TRANSPORTATION CABINETS REQUIREMENTS, WHAT THEY SAY IS YOU'VE CREATED A NO BUILD SCENARIO. YOU CREATE A BUILD SCENARIO. THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT DIFFERENCE IN THOSE TWO EXCEED 30%. THEY ALSO DON'T WANT THE OVERALL DELAY PER VEHICLE TO EXCEED 80S. AND THAT'S THOSE ARE KIND OF TWO THRESHOLDS THAT THEY UTILIZE TO SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE NOT MEETING THESE REQUIREMENTS. THEREFORE YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO IMPROVE THAT THAT SCENARIO, YOU KNOW, YOUR REQUIREMENTS AS WELL KIND OF ALLUDE TO VOLUME CAPACITY. SO BEING, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S EXCEEDING ONE, THAT COULD ALSO KIND OF TRIGGER SOME SOME MITIGATION NEEDS. SO WHAT ARE THE YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE CONSIDERATIONS. SO THERE ARE SIGNAL WARRANTS OR SIGNAL SIGNALIZATION. POTENTIALLY THERE ARE ADDING TURN LANES, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPMENT THAT MAY NEED REQUIRE LEFT TURN LANE IN RIGHT TURN LANE IN. JUST, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT ADDITIONAL LANES, WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL THROUGH LANES IN THE AREA OF THE DEVELOPMENT. ALSO JUST, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S ALREADY A SIGNALIZED INTERSECTION OR SIGNALIZED CORRIDOR, WE CAN MAKE CHANGES TO THE SIGNALS. CONSIDER DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, CHANGES LIKE A RIGHT TURN OVERLAP. YOU MIGHT SEE THAT OCCASIONALLY WHERE YOU ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, ARE IN A RIGHT TURN LANE AND YOU GET AN ARROW, A RIGHT TURN ARROW, WHILE THE OPPOSING LEFT IS GOING. THAT'S A CHANGE. WHETHER YOU GET A GREEN, YOU KNOW, FOR YOUR LEFT TURN, THAT COULD BE A CHANGE THAT'S NEEDED AS YOUR LEFT TURN VOLUME INCREASES. ALSO, I MEAN, JUST IN TERMS OF INTERSECTION TYPES, IT MIGHT BE WARRANTED TO CONVERT AN INTERSECTION TO A ROUNDABOUT OR ANOTHER. YOU KNOW, WHAT WE CONSIDER LIKE ALTERNATIVE INTERSECTION TYPE. YOU MAY REQUIRE ACCESS INTO THE DEVELOPMENT ONLY BE RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT INSTEAD OF FULL ACCESS. ALSO MENTIONED THE ACCESS SPACING TO YOU KNOW, YOU MAY SAY, HEY, THESE ARE YOU KNOW, YOUR PROPOSED INTERSECTIONS INTO DEVELOPMENT ARE TOO CLOSE AND WE NEED YOU TO SPACE THOSE OUT, OR WE NEED TO REMOVE ONE OF THE ACCESS POINTS TO MAINTAIN MORE, MORE REASONABLE ACCESS. ACCESS MANAGEMENT MIGHT BE AGAIN LIKE A RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT. YOU'RE ACTUALLY PROHIBITING A LEFT TURN OUT. THAT COULD BE A WAY OF MANAGING ACCESS. SO THOSE ARE JUST SOME OF THE THINGS THAT IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THE STUDY, WE WOULD WE WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, HEY, WE'VE EXCEEDED ONE OF THESE THRESHOLDS, WE'RE

[01:00:03]

AND IT'S AN ITERATIVE APPROACH TO THAT. IT'S NOT JUST SIMPLY GOING STRAIGHT TO LIKE FULL BUILD OUT WILL LOOK AND SEE. WELL, IS IT ONE APPROACH THAT HAS ISSUES? IS IT ALL OF THEM? AND KIND OF DO WE JUST START WITH THE TURN LANE THAT'S STILL NOT WORKING, THEN WHAT DO WE HAVE TO KIND OF KEEP DOING TO ADDRESS ANY OF THE ISSUES WITH THE TRAFFIC STUDY? THE LAST SLIDE HERE THAT THAT WE HAD, AND I'LL ADMIT I'M NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH WITH THIS, I JUST BUT YOU KNOW, THERE IS LOUISVILLE HAS THE SYSTEM DEVELOPMENT CHARGES IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT HAS BEEN THAT WAS SET TO EXPIRE AND HAS BEEN RE-UPPED. THAT APPEARS TO BE VERY SPECIFIC TO RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE REVIEWING THAT RIGHT NOW AND TRYING TO UPDATE THAT TO MAKE IT MORE EFFECTIVE TO HELP. OKAY. IS THERE MORE TO THE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES OR IS THAT WELL, IN THE YOU KNOW, I JUST NOTED IN HERE, I MEAN, JUST TO KIND OF MAKE YOU AWARE, WE HONESTLY DON'T SEE THIS MUCH IN KENTUCKY. IT'S BIGGER IN OTHER OTHER STATES. BUT WE'RE YOU KNOW, THEY DO REQUIRE ALL DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, ASSESS A DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEE BASED ON THE SIZE OF DEVELOPMENT OR POTENTIALLY THE IMPACT OF THE DEVELOPMENT. THERE'S TO ASSESS THOSE IN DIFFERENT WAYS. SO THOSE ARE THOSE ARE OTHER WAYS TO, YOU KNOW, JUST TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A TO SET MONEY ASIDE, I GUESS, TO BE ABLE TO MAKE MORE OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS. SO, LIKE I SAY, I'M NOT I WON'T CLAIM TO BE AN EXPERT ON ON EITHER OF THOSE. I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT THAT'S BEING, YOU KNOW, LOOKED AT. SO IF WE CAN LIKE THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT'S HELPFUL TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS. I THINK WE'VE HEARD THAT IT'S AN ITERATIVE PROCESS AND YOU ARE ON BOTH SIDES OF IT. SO WHEN YOU GET A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY AND LET'S JUST WHO GENERALLY PAYS FOR THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY THAT'S GENERALLY PAID BY THE DEVELOPER. CORRECT.

THAT IS CORRECT. SO WHAT WE WHAT I GET ASKED ALL THE TIME IS THE PERSON PAYING FOR THE STUDY HAS SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF CONTROL OF OVER WHAT THEY GET BACK AS A PRODUCT. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD YOUR RESPONSE BE TO SOMEBODY WHO WHO SAYS TO ME, DEVELOPER PAYS FOR IT. THEY DON'T LIKE THE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. THEY SEND IT BACK AND SAY, MAKE THIS FIT WHAT WE NEED IT TO DO. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THAT QUESTION? UNFORTUNATELY, I MEAN, IT DOES HAPPEN, UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S A YOU KNOW, THEY THEY, YOU KNOW, WOULD LOVE FOR IT TO THEM TO NOT BE ON THE HOOK FOR IMPROVEMENTS. BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO OUR, YOU KNOW, TO THE ENGINEERING, YOU KNOW, TO BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, DO THAT AND IT'S GOING TO GET REVIEWED, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO GET REVIEWED BY THE CABINET, IT'S GOING TO GET REVIEWED BY THE LOCAL AGENCY. SO THEY YOU KNOW, THEY KNOW THEY'RE THEY'RE DOING A THOROUGH JOB AND THEY USUALLY DO I, I DO WHEN I, WHEN I'M REVIEWING THEM, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, ALL THE PROCESSES HAVE BEEN FOLLOWED AND TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS THAT THAT CONFIDENCE IN THE IN THE STUDY. AND I MEAN, JUST QUITE FRANKLY, I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN A FEW DEVELOPERS THAT, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T, DIDN'T CALL ME BACK AND ASKED ME TO DO THE NEXT ONE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, WE THE STUDY WAS THE STUDY. YOU KNOW, THE STUDY SAID WHAT IT WAS. AND, YOU KNOW, WE WEREN'T GOING TO CHANGE IT TO SO THAT THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH NOT MAKING IMPROVEMENTS. AND SO THEREFORE, SO, SO IT REALLY IS MARKETPLACE REPUTATION AMONG OTHER THINGS.

YES. THAT WOULD BE THE GUARDRAILS. YEAH. AS MUCH AS ANYTHING. YEAH. IN TERMS OF HOW THAT PROCESS WORKS. YEAH. BECAUSE IT'S BEING REVIEWED BY A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE IN THAT PROCESS. YEAH. AND I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, I THINK I MEAN, PROBABLY NOT AN ISSUE HERE IN LOUISVILLE. BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK LIKE A, A SMALL MUNICIPALITY WOULD BENEFIT FROM, YOU KNOW, IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE STAFF, YOU KNOW, TO THAT CAN REVIEW THOSE, THEN I THINK IT IS ADVANTAGEOUS FOR THEM TO, TO SEEK OUT A, AN ENGINEER THAT IS, YOU KNOW, QUALIFIED TO REVIEW

[01:05:03]

AND, AND WE HEAR BACK FROM THE STATE THAT SAYS IT DOESN'T WARRANT A TRAFFIC SIGNAL. YEAH.

WELL, I THINK YOU KNOW, ONE. I WOULD SAY WE'RE GETTING TO A POINT WHERE WE'RE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND THAT TRAFFIC SIGNALS AREN'T ALWAYS THE SOLUTION. SO I KIND OF START THERE. NOW, I WILL ADMIT I'M A LITTLE BIASED. I'M KIND OF A I'M A ROUNDABOUT ADVOCATE. I THINK THERE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A LOT LESS CONFLICT POINTS AND HELP WITH SLOWING TRAFFIC DOWN SAFETY AND OTHER OTHER THINGS. THEY'RE NOT FOR EVERY INTERSECTION EITHER. BUT I MEAN, THERE IS, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IF YOU'RE ASKING THE CABINET IN THESE CASES, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THEY'RE PROBABLY DOING A QUICK, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, ALL YOU NEED IS A TRAFFIC COUNT AT THAT LOCATION. IT'S A RELATIVELY QUICK ANALYSIS FROM THERE TO THEN SEE IF IT MEETS WARRANTS. AND THERE ARE PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, THEY PROBABLY ARE SENDING SOMEONE OUT DOING THAT TRAFFIC COUNT, RUNNING IT AGAINST THE WARRANTS. AND THEIR RESPONSE IS THAT, HEY, IT DOESN'T MEET WARRANTS. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOT A SOLUTION THERE. SO I THINK IT'S I THINK WE'RE GETTING BETTER HERE IN, IN KENTUCKY AS A, AS A WHOLE, BEING WILLING TO GET A LITTLE MORE CREATIVE WITH OUR SOLUTIONS TO, TO LOOK AT TRAFFIC, YOU KNOW, JUST TRAFFIC CALMING IN GENERAL THAT ALONG THE CORRIDOR, NOT JUST AT THE INTERSECTIONS. AND THERE'S A LOT OF TOOLS, I THINK, THAT ARE THAT ARE AVAILABLE THAT CAN LOOK AT THAT. YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S EVEN, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY I KNOW IS A LITTLE OFF TOPIC FROM TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDIES, BUT THERE'S BEEN THE SAFETY SAFETY ACTION PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN GOING ON THROUGHOUT, YOU KNOW, THE REGION THAT PROBABLY ARE, YOU KNOW, FINDING SOME OF THOSE LOCATIONS, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY IDENTIFYING THOSE LOCATIONS, IDENTIFYING FUNDING FOR THOSE LOCATIONS AND, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY IDENTIFYING CREATIVE SOLUTIONS THAT IT'S NOT JUST IT'S OKAY IF IT DOESN'T MEET A SIGNAL WARRANT BECAUSE THERE THERE MIGHT EVEN BE BETTER SOLUTIONS THAN THE THAN THE SIGNAL TO ADDRESS THE, YOU KNOW, THE FATALITY CONCERN THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE AT ONE LOCATION OR JUST OTHER, YOU KNOW, CRASHES AT ANOTHER OR EVEN JUST CONGESTION. I MEAN, THAT I THINK THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THOSE STUDIES CAN BE DONE, YOU KNOW, PRETTY AFFORDABLY, BUT THEN ALSO WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE, YOU KNOW, ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER CREATIVE SOLUTIONS AS WELL.

THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN BRATCHER. I AM. SO WHEN YOU CREATE A TRAFFIC STUDY, THE DEVELOPER OR THE BUILDER COMES TO YOU AND ASKS YOU TO DO A TRAFFIC STUDY SO THAT HE OR SHE MAY NAVIGATE THROUGH THE PROCESS OF ZONING CHANGE OR A BUILD. RIGHT? SO YOU BASICALLY DO WORK FOR THE

[01:10:08]

I'VE GOT ANOTHER ENGINEER ON MY TEAM, SAM GARBER, THAT LOOKS AT THEM. WE'VE GOT AN ENGINEER OVER IN TRAFFIC THAT LOOKS AT THEM, AND THEN WE COORDINATE WITH THE ENGINEERS, OUR COUNTERPARTS AT THE STATE THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH THE CABINET. DO YOU DO YOU KICK THEM BACK IF YOU EVER FIND MISTAKES? YES. I HAVE CONCLUSIONS THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH. YES. WE'VE LOOKED AT WE LOOK AT THEIR DISTRIBUTION OF TRAFFIC, SEE IF WE AGREE WITH THAT. AND WE LOOK AT THE BACK OF QUEUES AND SO ON. THERE'S A NUMBER OF POINTS THAT WE LOOK AT WHERE SOME SORT OF ENGINEERING JUDGMENT HAS GONE INTO IT. SOME OF IT IS STRAIGHT NUMBERS OUT OF THE ITE MANUAL. WE DON'T QUESTION THAT TOO MUCH, JUST THAT THEY USE THE RIGHT IT MANUAL. SPECIFICATION. BUT YES, WE CHECK THEIR ENGINEERING JUDGMENTS AND WE DO PUSH BACK. NOT ON EVERY SINGLE STUDY, BUT WE HAVE. WHEN YOU PUSH BACK THEY MAKE CHANGES. YES THEY HAVE. YES. WOULD YOU SAY JUST BALLPARK FIGURE. AND I KNOW THIS IS JUST CONVERSATION. WHAT HALF THE TIME A THIRD OF THE TIME, ONE OUT OF 100, PROBABLY ABOUT MORE CLOSE TO A THIRD OF THE TIME. BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES THEY'LL DO THE STUDY AND THEY'RE NOT SHOWING ANY IMPACT. AND WE CAN'T FIND WHERE THERE MIGHT BE AN IMPACT.

I HAVE ONE SPECIFICALLY IN MIND ON JOHNSON ROAD, WHERE WE DID PUSH BACK AND ENDED UP GETTING SOME SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS THAT WEREN'T INITIALLY PROPOSED BY THE DEVELOPER. IF THEY ARE WRONG ON SOMETHING AND IT GETS THROUGH THE SYSTEM AND IT'S BLATANTLY WRONG, AND I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE WHAT WOULD BE WRONG. BUT IF IT WAS LIKE EVERYBODY SAID, LOOK, THEY WERE WRONG ON THAT STUDY, YOU KNOW, AND IN MY DISTRICT, FERN CREEK, BARDSTOWN ROAD IS A FREAKING MESS. IT'S HORRIBLE. PEOPLE HAVE FAILED THE TRAFFIC STUDY SYSTEMS IN IN FERN CREEK, AND THEY'RE WANTING TO JUST PILE ON MORE, BUT JUST NO, NO NEGATIVES ON ANYBODY. WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE GOOD GOVERNMENT. IF YOU'RE WRONG, WHAT HAPPENS? WELL, IN THE EXAMPLE THAT YOU GAVE WITH BARDSTOWN, FERN VALLEY OR FERN CREEK, SORRY, YOU'RE GETTING A LOT OF TRAFFIC FROM BULLITT COUNTY. SO THAT'S A BIG MYSTERY. THAT'S A BIG UNKNOWN THAT IS COMING INTO SPENCER AND NELSON. YES. SO YOU'RE GETTING ALL THAT ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC, ALL THOSE NEW DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE PILING ON THAT WE'RE NOT AWARE OF. WE GO OUT THERE AND WE TAKE A SNAPSHOT IN TIME OF YOUR BACKGROUND TRAFFIC, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT AT THE SAME TIME THEY'RE GETTING IN, PUT IN 200 HOMES RIGHT OUTSIDE THE COUNTY THAT ARE GOING TO USE BARDSTOWN ROAD TO ACCESS THE GENE SCHNEIDER TO COME INTO LOUISVILLE TO WORK. AND I GUESS IF WE'RE WRONG AND OVER TIME, THERE IS AN ISSUE. WE LOOK AT ALL THE MITIGATIONS, BUT IT FALLS ONTO TO METRO OR THE STATE TO DO THOSE MITIGATIONS. LIKE YOU SAID, THE SIGNAL TIMING, THE TURN LANES AND SO FORTH. WOULD YOU LAST QUESTION, MR. CHAIR? I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE. WOULD YOU JUST LIKE I SAID, JUST OFF THE CUFF, WOULD YOU THINK THAT WOULD THAT BE A GOOD THING TO

[01:15:01]

BECAUSE WE NEED IT, MAN. I'M TELLING YOU, WE NEED IT. AND BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE SEEING POSSIBLY THE SAME THING ON, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE SHUFFLING TRAFFIC THROUGH MOUNT WASHINGTON ROAD, DIXIE HIGHWAY. ALSO, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL. I'M NOT I CAN'T SIT HERE AND THINK OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD HOW YOU WOULD DO THAT. I ASSUME THEY'RE PUBLIC. THEY'RE PLANNING COMMISSIONS ARE PUBLIC RECORD. WE SET UP A TOLL ROAD AT THE BULLITT COUNTY LINE. I DON'T GO BACK TO THAT SYSTEM.

THANK YOU. SIR. COUNCILWOMAN. BEST. OKAY, I'M GOING TO TOUCH ON A LITTLE OF WHAT SHE SAID, HOW IT KIND OF FALLS BACK ON US AS COUNCIL. WE HAVE SOME AREAS IN DISTRICT 14 AND DISTRICT 25.

WE'RE IN THE DIXIE HIGHWAY CORRIDOR. KIND OF TOUCHING ON WHAT HE SPOKE OF. I ACTUALLY HAVE A STREET ON WEST PAGES. IT'S A 35 MILE PER HOUR STREET. WE'VE HAD FATALITIES. SAME HOUSES HIT OVER FIVE TIMES, AND NOW HE'S GETTING THREATENED THAT HIS INSURANCE IS GOING TO DROP HIM IF HIS HOUSE GETS HIT AGAIN. AND WE'RE TRYING TO COME UP WITH TRAFFIC TRAFFIC MEASURES ON THAT ROAD. I THINK AS COUNCIL, WE SHOULD HAVE A WORD. YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD HAVE SOME INSIGHT INTO THAT. AND WHEN WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE FATALITIES OF THAT AMOUNT AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE PULL THE STUDIES FOR THE ACCIDENTS ON THIS ROAD IN, IN MORE THAN HALF ARE RESULTING IN INJURY. YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK WIDENING STRIPING IS GOING TO CHANGE THIS. AND WE MAKE SUGGESTIONS AND WE'RE FOUGHT UP AGAINST THAT IN THE TRAFFIC STUDIES. YOU KNOW, WE'RE KIND OF AT THE MERCY OF WAITING ON THAT AND GETTING INFORMATION. BUT I FEEL LIKE IT'S JUST A WALL WE KEEP RUNNING INTO. AND ALL THAT GETS DEFLECTED AND DEFERRED. I THINK YOU HAVE TWO THINGS. I THINK TRAFFIC STUDIES ARE MAINLY LOOKING AT VOLUME. WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE GEOMETRY OR OTHER FACTORS THAT ARE GOING TO PLAY INTO POSSIBLE SAFETY ISSUES.

THERE'S A SAFETY CIRCUIT RIDER FOR THE STATE OF KENTUCKY, WHICH I'VE TALKED TO DIRECTOR KERN ABOUT, POSSIBLY INVOLVING THAT OFFICE. WOULD THEY DO IS THEY GO AROUND TO THE COUNTIES AND SPECIFICALLY LOOK AT SPECIFIC SITUATIONS AND COME UP WITH SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS FOR IT, LIKE, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH ONE HOMEOWNER WITH ONE POINT AREA THAT HAS HAD SIGNIFICANT FATALITIES. ONE THING I'M EXCITED ABOUT, TOO, IS THEY'RE ALSO GETTING THROUGH THE STATE FOR FREE. ACTUALLY, THE STATE'S PAYING FOR IT IS NEW TRAFFIC DATA, CRASH DATA. THERE WILL BE A LOT MORE IN DEPTH AND A LOT. IT WILL TELL US A LOT MORE OF WHERE OUR SAFETY ISSUES ARE. SO TRAFFIC STUDY IS LOOKING AT DELAYS. THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY LOOKING ABOUT HOW UNSAFE IT'S GOING TO BE. IN SOME REGARDS. IT WILL BECAUSE IT WILL TELL YOU IF THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE POSSIBLY, YOU KNOW, T-BONED INTERSECTION ISSUES OR REAR ENDED INTERSECTIONS. IT'S NOT GOING TO HELP YOU WITH FOLKS RUNNING OFF THE ROAD BECAUSE THE GEOMETRY IS BAD IN THIS SITUATION. IT'S ACTUALLY THE ENTIRE ROAD. SO. HI. JENNIFER KOMISAR, CURRENT EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LOUISVILLE METRO PUBLIC WORKS I AM VERY, VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE WEST PAGES CORRIDOR. AND IT MAY BE, I THINK OUR CONSULTANT ALLUDED EARLIER TO THE IDEA THAT A TRAFFIC SIGNAL MAY NOT ALWAYS BE THE SOLUTION, AND IT MAY NOT. IT MAY ACTUALLY MAKE THINGS LESS SAFE.

WE RECENTLY LAST FALL DID ONE OF OUR FIRST QUICK BUILD PROJECTS, WHICH IS THE TYPE OF INITIATIVES WE'LL BE DOING MORE OF WITH DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. THE CALL THERE FROM THE NEIGHBORS WAS FOR A TRAFFIC SIGNAL. THEY INSISTED THEY HAD TO HAVE A TRAFFIC SIGNAL, AND WE WENT BACK WITH RESTRIPING. WE'RE NOW STUDYING THAT. WE'RE GOING TO REVIEW IT AND MAKE SURE THAT THOSE CRASHES HAVE DECREASED. I KNOW IN THE CASE OF WEST PAGES, WE PROPOSED A PILOT TO LOOK AT INCREMENTALLY. YOU NEED THE WHAT IS THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF IMPROVEMENT THAT YOU NEED, NOT NOT TO MINIMIZE IT IN ANY WAY, BUT IF YOU OVERDO IT, IF YOU PUT THREE TRAFFIC SIGNALS ON A ROAD THAT DIDN'T NEED A SINGLE TRAFFIC SIGNAL, YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE THINGS LESS SAFE. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL HAVE ANY OTHER OPINIONS ABOUT SIGNALS OR ANYTHING FROM YOUR EXPERIENCES TO ADD AS FAR AS THAT. BUT BUT THAT IS THAT'S THE APPROACH THAT WE'RE TAKING. THERE ARE PROVEN SAFETY COUNTERMEASURES THAT WE WANT TO TRY FIRST, BECAUSE THE IDEA IS THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY HAVE PEOPLE WHO MAY BE SPEEDING, AND IF THEY SEE A YELLOW LIGHT, THEY'LL GO FASTER. SO IF THEY'RE ALREADY SPEEDING AND THEN YOU INSTALL A TRAFFIC SIGNAL, YOU CAN ACTUALLY INCREASE SPEEDS. SO WHAT WE KNOW FROM OUR HIGH INJURY NETWORK IS THAT WHEN YOU INCREASE SPEED, THE VIOLENCE THAT RESULTS FROM WRECKS CARS GOING OFF THE ROAD IS EXPONENTIAL. SO FOR EVERY FEW

[01:20:02]

[2. O-083-25     AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO THE ZONING OF PROPERTIES LOCATED AT 4514 R AND 4516 R CRAWFORD AVENUE AND 7006 TEXTILE AVENUE CONTAINING APPROXIMATELY 3.84 ACRES AND BEING IN LOUISVILLE METRO (CASE NO. 24ZONE0128). **Council Member Jonathan “JJ” Joseph (R-12) can vote on this zoning change** 4/15/25 Planning and Zoning Committee  Tabled Action Required By June 4, 2025 Sponsors: Andrew Owen (D-9) ]

ALL THOSE IN. NO, NO NEED TO. OKAY, SO I GUESS WE'LL JUST START BY TURNING IT OVER TO COUNCILMAN JOSEPH SO HE CAN GIVE US AN UPDATE ON WHERE THINGS STAND. AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE.

THANK YOU. THIS ZONING CASE IS ONE THAT REPRESENTS A DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD PERMIT THE CONSTRUCTION, AS WE KNOW, OF 48 UNITS LOCATED ON TEXTILE AVENUE ON DIXIE HIGHWAY. WE ASKED TO HAVE THIS ITEM TABLED AT THE LAST MEETING OF METRO COUNCIL. AND I THANK YOU ALL FOR GIVING ME A LITTLE MORE TIME TO WORK ON THIS MATTER. WITH THAT BEING SAID, BECAUSE OF TIME, I'M GOING TO ASK THE MEMBERS PLEASE MOVE FORWARD WITH TAKING ACTION ON THIS CASE BECAUSE WE ARE FACING A DEADLINE THAT WE HAVE TO ACT ON AS THE COUNCIL MEMBER FOR THIS PROPERTY UNDER CONSIDERATION, I WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS MY APPRECIATION TO THE PROPONENT OF THIS PLAN. WORKING WITH THE JEFFERSON COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WE WERE ABLE TO GET THREE BINDING ELEMENTS ADDED THAT WILL HOPEFULLY ADDRESS THE CONCERNS OF THOSE EXPRESSED DURING THE ZONING PROCESS. WE HAD INDIVIDUALS THAT REACHED OUT REGARDING THE PROPERTY. IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE IMAGE OF THE PROPERTY, IT'S SURROUNDING THE BACKYARDS, REALLY OF THREE FOURTHS OF HOMES, IF YOU WERE TO THINK OF IT AS LIKE A RECTANGLE, THREE FOURTHS OF BACKYARDS. AND WE HAD THREE BINDING ELEMENTS ADDED TO IT THAT WERE ACCEPTED THIS MORNING. AND SO I WANT TO THANK THOSE MEMBERS OF THE ZONING COMMITTEE WHO CHALLENGED THE PROPOSAL AND WEREN'T AFRAID TO VOTE NO. THEIR COMMENTS HELPED ME TO BE ABLE TO BRING IMPROVEMENTS TO THIS PLAN, I HOPE, AND IN THE END, I'LL BE VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS PROPOSAL. AND AGAIN, THANK THE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE FOR THEIR TIME. SO HAVE THOSE BINDING ELEMENTS BEEN ADDED TO THE SYSTEM? DO WE KNOW I HAVE THEM BUT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ADDED YET? I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU WANTED TO ADD THEM TODAY OR YOU WANTED TO WAIT UNTIL THEN. THOSE BINDING ELEMENTS ARE THE I CAN READ THEM INTO THE RECORD IF YOU WANT TO. DO YOU WANT TO MOVE TO ADD THEM OR JUST JUST READ THEM FOR DISCUSSION? OR WE CAN WE CAN GO AHEAD AND MOVE TO ADAM. OKAY. IF THAT'S OKAY. YEAH. I'LL READ THEM. SO WE WOULD BE ADDING A TOTAL OF FOUR BINDING ELEMENTS. AND THAT WOULD BE NUMBER EIGHT PRIOR TO OBTAINING THE FIRST CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR THE DEVELOPMENT, DEVELOPER SHALL WIDEN TEXTILE AVENUE NORTH TO THE CRAWFORD AVENUE INTERSECTION TO THE STANDARD 18FT ROADWAY WIDTH, WHEREVER DEFICIENT NUMBER NINE, AT THE SAME TIME AS THE OTHER ASPHALT INSTALLATION, APPLICANT SHALL INSTALL A SPEED BUMP ALONG THE ACCESS ROAD ON THE SUBJECT PROPERTY PROPERTY

[01:25:04]

PLEASE OPEN UP THE VOTING SHARE OPEN. COUNCIL MEMBER RAYMOND. I CAN'T SEE THE VOTE TOTALS. HOW'S IT LOOKING? OH, YES. IT'S. YES. WOW. BANDWAGON MEMBER JOSEPH. HERE. YOU HAVE NINE YES VOTES.

THANK YOU. WITH NINE YES VOTES, THIS IS UNANIMOUS. AND WE'LL BE MOVED TO OLD BUSINESS ON METRO COUNCIL AGENDA. LET'S SEE, 230. WE STILL HAVE TIME. LET'S GO AHEAD AND TRY TO FINISH THE REST OF THE AGENDA. THE NEXT ITEM IS NUMBER FOUR ZERO. DASH 125, AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO THE

[4. O-100-25     AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO THE DETAILED DISTRICT DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 6803 BEULAH CHURCH ROAD CONTAINING APPROXIMATELY 18.3 ACRES AND BEING IN LOUISVILLE METRO (CASE NO. 25DDP0007). Action Required By October 24, 2025 Sponsors: Andrew Owen (D-9) ]

MOTION SECOND. PROPERLY MOVED AND SECONDED, BRIAN. ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, BRIAN DAVIS, LOUISVILLE METRO OFFICE OF PLANNING, THIS IS PLANNING COMMISSION DOCKET NUMBER 25 0007. THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION IS LOCATED AT 60 803 BEULAH CHURCH ROAD, LOCATED METRO COUNCIL DISTRICT 23. THIS IS THE AN AERIAL OF THE SITE. THIS IS PART OF THE LARGER REZONING PROJECT THAT HAD CAME BEFORE METRO COUNCIL, AND THIS IS THE THIRD OR FOURTH DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT WE HAVE SEEN COME THROUGH. YOU CAN SEE THE PROPERTY IS VACANT. THE PROPOSED USE FOR THIS IS A RESIDENTIAL. THE ZONING ON THE SITE IS R5. A IS LOCATED IN NEIGHBORHOOD FORM DISTRICT. SO THE REQUEST BEFORE YOU IS APPROVAL OF A DETAILED DISTRICT DEVELOPMENT PLAN WITH BINDING ELEMENTS. THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TOWNHOMES ON THE SITE. APPROXIMATELY 190 UNITS DIVIDED AMONG 26 TWO STORY BUILDINGS. THE. THE SITE PLAN INCLUDES PARKING AND CLUBHOUSE AND RECREATIONAL OPEN SPACE THROUGHOUT THE PROPERTY. THIS IS THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT PLAN.

HERE YOU CAN SEE THE CEDAR CREEK ROAD EXTENSION THAT EXTENDS FROM BEULAH CHURCH ROAD TO THE EAST INTO THE SITE, AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THE PROPOSED LAYOUT OF THE RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS. THIS IS DAMASCUS ROAD UP HERE. THE ONLY CONNECTION TO DIRECT CONNECTION TO DAMASCUS IS OVER AT THE FAR EASTERN PORTION OF THE SITE. AND THEN THERE IS PROPOSED OPEN SPACE AND SOME DETENTION BASINS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH YOU CAN SEE ON THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN TO HELP TO PROVIDE SCREENING

[01:30:01]

EVERYTHING IS SUBJECTIVE. YES. I ALSO JUST WANTED TO SAY, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS STARTED, BUT WHEN I FIRST CAME ON COUNCIL, WE WERE NOT SEEING THE NUMBER OF TOWNHOUSE PROJECTS THAT WE'RE SEEING NOW, AND I'M HOPING THAT'S BECAUSE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT HERE ON COUNCIL AND SPONSORS ARE LISTENING TO US, BUT I APPRECIATE THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF HOUSING THAT ARE BEING BEING BROUGHT TO US ON COUNCIL. I THINK MORE DIFFERENT KINDS OF HOUSES THAN WERE BEING BROUGHT WHEN I FIRST CAME ON COUNCIL. AND I FOR ONE, APPRECIATE THAT. SO ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THIS BEFORE CHERYL OPENS UP THE ROLL CALL? VOTE? OKAY CHERYL, CAN YOU OPEN UP THE VOTE, PLEASE? COMMITTEE MEMBER RAYMOND. YES. PLEASE. CLOSING. CHAIR YOU HAVE SEVEN YES VOTES WITH SEVEN YES VOTES. THAT'S UNANIMOUS. UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED. AND WE MOVED TO THE OLD, OLD BUSINESS ON METRO COUNCIL AGENDA. THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS NUMBER 5R-03725 RESOLUTION REQUESTING THE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REGULATIONS WITH REGARD TO ALLOWING OFF PREMISES SIGNS TO BE CONSTRUCTED AS, AN, AS AND UPGRADED TO CHANGING IMAGE SIGNS. MOTION PROPERLY MOVED AND SECONDED. ARE YOU SPEAKING TO THIS OR IS THE SPONSOR SPEAKING TO THIS? I'LL LET THE SPONSOR SPEAK TO IT.

OKAY. YEAH. AND THEN I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. OKAY. GREAT.

COUNCILMAN HERNDON, ARE YOU HERE TO SPEAK? SPEAK TO THIS. YES. COUNCILMAN PIANTINI ACTUALLY DID ALL THE LEGWORK ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION, BUT HE WAS OUT OF TOWN TODAY, SO? SO HE DUMPED IT IN YOUR LAP? YEAH. ALL RIGHT, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. I HAVE SOME OF HIS NOTES RIGHT HERE. THANK YOU. THIS IS JUST TO CLEAR UP A DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THE GUIDANCE ON OFF ON PREMISES AND OFF PREMISES SIGNS. CURRENTLY WE DO. SORRY. CURRENTLY WE DO HAVE GUIDANCE IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE ON ON PREMISES. BUT THE OFF PREMISES, MEANING BILLBOARDS IS NOT THERE AND IT'S CAUSED SOME CONFUSION AND UNNECESSARY DELAYS TRYING TO GET GET THESE THINGS THROUGH. SO IT'S JUST TO CLEAR THAT UP. IT DOES NOT CHANGE ANY GUIDANCE ON HOW MANY SIGNS OR WHERE THEY CAN BE PLACED, AND JUST INSTRUCT AND PLANNING COMMISSION TO DEVELOP GUIDANCE FOR OFF PREMISES SIGNS TO ALLOW FOR THEM TO BE DIGITAL. IN OTHER WORDS, CHANGING IMAGE SIGNS FROM THE OLD PAPER SIGNS TO THE TO THE NEWER CHANGING IMAGE SIGNS. THANK YOU BRIAN. SO WHEN HE WHEN HE'S WHEN COUNCILMAN HERNDON IS USING THE ON PREMISE AND OFF PREMISE DISTINCTION, CAN YOU CAN YOU GIVE A LITTLE MORE CONTEXT ABOUT THAT? I MEAN, I MEAN, I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS GENERALLY, BUT MAYBE AN EXAMPLE OR WHAT

[01:35:01]

SO LIKE MCDONALD'S IS THERE. THEY HAVE MCDONALD'S SIGN THAT'S CONSIDERED AN ON PREMISES SIGN.

OFF PREMISES MEANS YOU'RE ADVERTISING THINGS THAT AREN'T ON YOUR SITE. SO IF YOU'RE A MCDONALD'S AND YOU'RE ADVERTISING FOR ROLLER SKATING RINK DOWN THE STREET, THAT'S CONSIDERED AN OFF PREMISE SIGN, IT'S REAL. SO WE HAVE PRETTY CLEAR REGULATIONS FOR ON PREMISES SIGNS AND OFF PREMISE SIGNS. AND THIS IS UPDATING THE OFF PREMISE SIGN REGULATIONS. SO MY UNDERSTANDING SO THE WAY THAT WE TYPICALLY THE WAY THAT WE EASILY DIVIDE UP SIGNS SIGNAGE IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE NOW. SO YOU HAVE ON WHETHER IT'S ON PREMISE OR OFF PREMISE, YOU HAVE ILLUMINATED AND NON ILLUMINATED AND THEN YOU HAVE CHANGING IMAGE AND STATIC. AND SO THOSE ARE THE THREE DIFFERENT WAYS TO KIND OF GENERALIZE THE TYPE OF SIGN THAT'S THERE. YOU KNOW WE HAVE DIFFERENT REGULATIONS BASED ON WHAT THE WHICH ONE WHAT FALLS UNDER WHAT.

AND BASED ON THE FORM DISTRICTS. AND SO YOU KNOW, WE WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THE EXISTING REGULATIONS. WE'LL WE'LL GET SOME MORE INFORMATION FROM THE SPONSORS TO KIND OF FIGURE OUT WHAT THEIR IDEAS ARE FOR WHAT THE DIRECTION IS, AND THEN WE'LL CONDUCT A REVIEW OF PEER CITIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I WILL JUST ADD THAT THE ONLY THE ONLY CONCERN WE HAVE IS THE 90 DAY TURNAROUND THAT'S IN THERE, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF TECHNICAL. WHENEVER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING IMAGE SIGNS AND ELECTRONIC SIGNS, THERE'S A LOT OF TECHNICAL ISSUES AND THERE'S A LOT OF LAYERING AND THAT YOU HAVE YOU HAVE FEDERAL STANDARDS, YOU HAVE STATE STANDARDS. ALL DEPENDS ON WHERE THE SIGNS ARE LOCATED AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND SO 90 DAYS MAY BE A TOUGH ASK TO GET IT BACK TO IT. BUT WE'LL WE'LL DO WHAT WE CAN. SO. WE USUALLY TRY TO ACCOMMODATE THE DEPARTMENT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. WOULD THE SPONSOR POTENTIALLY BE OKAY TO MAYBE MOVING THAT TO I MEAN, DO YOU THINK YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH IT WITHIN 90 DAYS OR WOULD. WELL, WELL, AND THE WAY IT'S WORDED IN THE RESOLUTION IS IT SAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, AFTER 90 DAYS, METRO COUNCIL MAY CHOOSE TO PURSUE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, SOME KIND OF ACTION. IF WE DON'T HAVE A HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO THEM, TO YOU ALL BY THEN. BUT I'M JUST KIND OF THROWING THAT OUT THERE BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT'S VERY TECHNICAL IN NATURE WHEN IT WHENEVER IT COMES TO THE CHANGING IMAGE SIGNS. OKAY. COUNCILWOMAN. RE YEAH, I'VE JUST GOT ONE QUESTION FOR KIND OF CLARIFICATION. DO WE CURRENTLY ASIDE FROM LIKE THE GREAT BIG SIGN AT THE FAIRGROUNDS, THAT'S CLEARLY A CHANGING IMAGE SIGN. DO WE ALREADY HAVE LED BILLBOARDS OUT IN THE COMMUNITY THAT DO NOT CHANGE IMAGES, BUT CONCEIVABLY COULD BE READY TO DO THAT AS SOON AS THIS IS SET IN STONE? I'M TRYING TO THINK HOW TO WORD MY RESPONSE HERE. THERE ARE SOME CHANGING IMAGE BILLBOARDS OUT IN THE PUBLIC. THE EITHER NON CONFORMING OR CONFORMING STATUS TO THOSE IS UP IN THE AIR. AND SO THERE COULD BE SIGNS THAT ARE READY TO BE UTILIZED SHOULD NEW REGULATIONS ARE PUT IN PLACE. AND I'M JUST GOING TO LEAVE IT AT THAT. OKAY.

SO FROM MEMORY I MEAN THERE ARE BOTH DIGITAL THAT AND THEN THERE ARE SOME THAT JUST ROTATE THAT ARE MECHANICAL BUT ARE NOT DIGITAL. SO THEY CHANGE IMAGES BY ROTATING. RIGHT. AND SO I THINK THEY'RE RIGHT. DIFFERENT. YEAH. THE WAY AND THE WAY WE DIFFERENTIATE AGAIN WE HAVE CHANGING IMAGE. SO LIKE YOU KNOW OUR OUR REGULATIONS NOW DEAL WITH IT. WHETHER IT'S A IF IT'S A DIGITAL ELECTRONIC AND IT CHANGES IMAGE THAT FALLS UNDER THERE OR IF IT ROTATES THEN IT FALLS UNDER OUR DEFINITION NOW. AND SO I THINK PART OF THE QUESTION IS DO WE NEED TO UPDATE THAT TO KIND OF DIFFERENTIATE EVEN FURTHER GIVEN GIVEN THE RELATIVE RELATIVE AGE OF OUR SUN REGULATIONS. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGY CHANGE AND WE HAVEN'T UPDATED THESE FOR A WHILE. SO THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION WAS HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN SINCE WE'VE UPDATED THE REGULATIONS? IT'S BEEN A WHILE. IT HAS. IT HAS BEEN A WHILE. YEAH. YOU'VE BEEN HERE A MINUTE I HAVE, YEAH. SO HAS IT BEEN UPDATED SINCE YOU'VE BEEN HERE? DEFINITELY NOT DURING THIS LAST TEN YEAR, JOHN. I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER. YEAH, YEAH. OKAY. THAT'S FAIR. AND REGARDING THE QUESTION ABOUT GOING PAST 90 DAYS, I'M SURE THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO TALK TO HIM. OBVIOUSLY, WE WANT TO ACCOMMODATE YOU AND WE CAN AND AS WE'RE GOING FORWARD AND GETTING RESEARCH AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WE CAN REACH OUT TO THE SPONSORS AND GIVE YOU ALL INFORMATION ON WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE FINDING AND KIND OF KEEP YOU UPDATED ON THAT. AND THEN IF WE NEED TO COME BACK HERE AND GIVE UPDATES, WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT. GREAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT THIS? NO, I THINK WE CAN LEAVE IT AT 90 DAYS. AND THIS THIS CAN BE A VOICE VOTE BECAUSE IT IS A RESOLUTION. SO ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. ALL THOSE, ALL THOSE AGAINST PLEASE SAY NO. THIS HAS BEEN APPROVED.

[5. R-037-25     A RESOLUTION REQUESTING THE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE REGULATIONS WITH REGARD TO ALLOWING OFF-PREMISES SIGNS TO BE CONSTRUCTED AS AND UPGRADED TO CHANGING IMAGE SIGNS. Action Required By October 24, 2025 Sponsors: Anthony Piagentini (R-19), Ken Herndon (D-4)]

[01:40:05]

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK AS WE KIND OF MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME OF THE RESEARCH THAT WE HAVE IN HERE, WE'RE MAYBE GOING TO ASK SOME OF OUR KIND OF KIND OF REGULARS WHO GO OUT AND ARE CONDUCTING NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGS NOW, IF THEY CAN KIND OF GATHER SOME OF THAT INFORMATION FOR US, WE DO GET THE SIGN IN SHEETS FOR NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGS. AND SO WE'RE ABLE TO KIND OF TAKE THOSE SIGN IN SHEETS AND PLOT THEM INTO GIS SO THAT WE CAN LOOK AND SEE LIKE, LIKE RELATIVE DISTANCE TO THE TO THE SITES FOR THE PROPOSED SITES. AND SO WE, WE'VE, WE'VE DONE IT SO FAR FOR, FOR TWO CASES. AND I THINK, I THINK AS WE CONTINUE TO DO OUR RESEARCH HERE, WE'RE GOING TO PUT TOGETHER JUST LIKE A WHOLE COMPILATION OF, OF ZONING CASES.

SO WE CAN KIND OF GET THAT INFORMATION AND SEE HOPEFULLY MAKE SOME DETERMINATIONS ABOUT WHAT WHAT IS EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION, WHAT ISN'T. YOU KNOW, HOW REALISTIC IS IT TO EXPECT THAT? AND THEN WHAT IS THAT ADDITIONAL COST? I MEAN, HOW MANY ADDITIONAL NOTICES OR WHATEVER ARE WE TALKING ABOUT BY ADDING A THIRD, POTENTIALLY FOURTH LAYER OF. SO WE'LL SEE BOTH DIFFERENCES IN POTENTIAL TOTAL NUMBERS OF, OF PEOPLE THAT WILL GO OUT TO OR PERCENTAGES OF INCREASE THAT WILL GO OUT TO, BUT THEN ALSO POTENTIAL COST RELATED TO THAT. RIGHT? CORRECT.

THAT'S WHAT WE'LL KIND OF SEE FROM YOUR STUDY. I THINK WE CAN ESTIMATE THAT. YES. YEAH. AND WHAT WAS THE TURNAROUND ON THIS ONE THERE, THERE WAS NOT A TIME FRAME IN THERE, WHICH I APPRECIATE BECAUSE WE DO HAVE NINE RESOLUTIONS FROM YOU ALL RIGHT NOW THAT WE'RE WORKING ON.

YES. SO BUT YEAH, BUT BUT I MEAN THIS IS ONE THAT WE CAN, WE CAN SPREAD THIS PARTICULAR ONE OUT TO, TO KIND OF DIFFERENT STAFF TO DO THE RESEARCH FOR US. YOU KNOW, WE'RE TYPICALLY WITH LIKE CODE AMENDMENTS, WE'RE KIND OF RELYING ON LIKE THE, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF THE TOP. AND SO WE THIS ONE, THIS ONE, WE CAN SPREAD OUT THE, THE RESEARCH A LITTLE BIT MORE. SO IT WON'T BE AS DIFFICULT TO RESEARCH. OKAY. WE HAVE QUESTIONS, COUNCILWOMAN RUBY OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THE NOTICES OUT IN ENGLISH AND IN SPANISH WITH THE NOTATION AT THE BOTTOM FOR HOW TO FIND IT IN OTHER LANGUAGES. THAT'S REALLY A BIG STEP. AND SO I ASSUME THAT IS ALSO GOING TO BE PART OF THE DESIGN PROCESS FOR THESE NEW FOR THE NEW SIGNS.

ALSO, I DON'T KNOW. WE HAVE NOT TAKEN ANY CONSIDERATION. SO OKAY, WELL WE WANT TO MAKE SURE

[01:45:04]

THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS. SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE GET THAT ACCEIBLE AS POSSIBLE. THA YOU. AONE EE? TIS RELU. WE DA VOI SOHOSE IN FAVOR, POSED? THE AYES HAVE IT.SE CARRIED A COUPLE QUESTIONS. PARDON? ON TWO ITEMS. TWO AND THREE. I SAID NINE VOTES. IT WAS ACTUALLY EIGHT. THEY WERE BOTH EIGHT VOTES. THEY WERE BOTH EIGHT VOTES OKAY. AND ALSO IS IT OKAY IF I MOVE ITEM FOUR TO THE CONSENT CALENDAR? ITEM FOUR CONSENT CALENDAR. IS THAT OKAY WITH YOU, COUNCILMAN HUDSON, IF IT MOVES TO THE CONSENT CALENDAR. YES, THAT'S THANK YOU FOR THANK YOU. ANY OTHER BUSINESS BEFORE US? I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE ON THE AGENDA. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING BEFORE WE ADJOURN? THIS MEETING

[Adjournment Note: Agendas are followed at the discretion of the Chair. While an item may be listed, it does not mean all items will be heard and/or acted upon by the Committee.]