[1. ID 24-0334 INCLUSIONARY ZONING –Joe Haberrman, Joel Dock, and Rachel Casey, Office of Planning, Lisa Govoni, Housing Planner Montgomery County, Maryland]

INCLUSIONARY ZONING. MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND, HAS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF INCLUSIONARY ZONING IN THE COUNTRY. THEY'VE SHE CAN TELL US, BUT THEY'VE HAD HAD IT IN PLACE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, DECADES, I THINK, SO, WITH THAT SAID, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO BRIAN AND BRIAN. IF YOU CAN TEE US UP, I'D APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. GOOD AFTERNOON, BRIAN DAVIS, LOUISVILLE METRO OFFICE OF PLANNING, YEAH. WE'RE JUST GOING TO GIVE A QUICK INTRODUCTION TO THE INCLUSIONARY HOUSING SLASH ZONING, TOPIC. SO YOU MAY BE ASKING YOURSELF, OKAY, WHAT IS INCLUSIONARY HOUSING, SO INCLUSIONARY HOUSING, IT'S THE TERM FOR THE LOCAL POLICIES THAT , THAT A NUMBER OF COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE CREATED, THAT IS USED AS A METHOD OF CREATING ADDITIONAL AFFORDABLE HOMES AND HOUSES FOR LOW AND MODERATE INCOME HOUSEHOLDS, AND, BASICALLY, IT TIES THE CREATION OF THOSE UNITS TO THE CONSTRUCTION OF MARKET RATE HOUSING, OR MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT, OFTEN, YOU KNOW, YOU KIND OF GET INCLUSIONARY HOUSING AND INCLUSIONARY ZONING, YOU KNOW, USED INTERCHANGEABLY, JUST DEPENDS ON ON THE TYPE OF ORDINANCE THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY SPECIFICALLY TIE IT TO ZONING OR NOT, INCLUSIONARY HOUSING POLICIES. THEY WERE FIRST DEVELOPED IN RESPONSE TO THE HISTORIC ZONING, AND LAND USE POLICIES THAT REINFORCE ECONOMIC AND RACIAL SEGREGATION, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, PROVIDED A LOT OF INFORMATION TO METRO COUNCIL AND OTHERS ABOUT THAT, ABOUT THE HISTORY THAT WE'VE HAD HERE IN LOUISVILLE, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, A TYPE OF POLICY THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE ENACTED IN ORDER TO TRY AND REVERSE THOSE, THE EFFECTS OF THOSE, PREVIOUS EXCLUSIONARY ZONING POLICIES. SO, THE TWO MOST COMMON METHODS FOR IMPLEMENTING INCLUSIONARY HOUSING, YOU HAVE EITHER, YOU KNOW, A MANDATORY REQUIREMENT OR A VOLUNTARY INCENTIVE. AND SO, WHEN IT'S MANDATORY, THAT REQUIRES DEVELOPERS TO SELL OR RENT A CERTAIN PORTION OF NEW UNITS OR LOW OR MODERATE INCOME, TO OR TO LOWER OR MODERATE INCOME RESIDENTS AND THEN KEEP THOSE, THOSE UNITS AFFORDABLE FOR THOSE RESIDENTS, RESIDENTS FOR A SPECIFIC PERIOD OF PERIOD OF TIME, SO WHAT YOU MAY SEE IS LIKE, AGAIN, SOMEONE COMES IN WITH A REQUEST TO DEVELOP A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, THEN THE THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE THAT MEETS THIS REQUIREMENT AND THEN LIKE A TERM OF LIKE 25, 30, 35 YEARS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THOSE UNITS WOULD HAVE TO REMAIN AFFORDABLE WITHIN THAT DEVELOPMENT, OTHER OTHER COMMUNITIES, OFFER UP VOLUNTARY, PROGRAMS WHERE THEY OFFER INCENTIVES SUCH AS DENSITY BONUSES OR PARKING REDUCTIONS.

EXPEDITED, PERMITTING MAYBE EVEN REDUCED, FEES FOR PERMITTING, BASED ON THE CREATION OF AFFORDABLE UNITS WITHIN THOSE DEVELOPMENTS AND SO, SOMETIMES YOU WILL SEE THESE TWO, KIND OF PAIRED TOGETHER, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE THERE MAY BE LIKE A BASELINE, BUT THEN IF THEY WANT TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL, AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS IN THEIR, IN THAT DEVELOPMENT, THEN THERE WOULD BE SOME INCENTIVES THAT WOULD BE OFFERED UP, FOR THAT DEVELOPER, SO WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS, ONE, INCLUSIONARY HOUSING POLICIES ARE MOST EFFECTIVE WHEN APPLIED THROUGHOUT AN ENTIRE CITY. AND SO WHAT WE GET THROUGH THAT IS EQUITABLE DISTRIBUTION OF LOW AND MODERATE INCOME HOUSING, IN ALL NEIGHBORHOODS, ALSO, THESE TYPES OF PROGRAMS COMBAT CONCENTRATION OF POVERTY AND CREATES A MIXED USE, MIXED INCOME NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH HAVE BEEN LINKED TO POSITIVE HEALTH AND EDUCATION OUTCOMES FOR RESIDENTS. AND SO YOU'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GETTING AWAY FROM THAT CLUSTERING OF, OF LOW AND AFFORDABLE INCOME IN CERTAIN AREAS, BY HAVING THESE POLICIES AND BEING ABLE TO SPREAD IT ALL THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY, FINALLY, THROUGH INCLUSIONARY HOUSING, IT PROVIDES AN ALTERNATIVE FUNDING FOR PROVIDING THESE TYPES OF, OF HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES, BY HAVING THE PRIVATE MARKET CONSTRUCT THOSE. AND SO YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO RELY ON ANY KIND OF LOCAL FUNDS OR FEDERAL GRANTS OR THINGS LIKE THAT TO PROVIDE THIS TYPE OF HOUSING, INSTEAD IT'S BEING, YOU KNOW, WORKED INTO THE

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BUT AS AFFORDABLE HOUSING BECOMES MORE AND MORE CRITICAL, ADOPTING AN INCLUSIONARY HOUSING POLICY IS ONE THING LOCAL COMMUNITIES CAN DO TO MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE. ALL RIGHT. SO THAT CONCLUDES OUR INTRODUCTION TO THE TOPIC, HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE THEM

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OR HOPEFULLY WE DIDN'T STEP ALL OVER LISA'S PRESENTATION, BUT, YEAH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. LET'S HOLD QUESTIONS UNTIL LET'S LET LISA GIVE GIVE US HER PRESENTATION AND TELL ABOUT MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND'S EXPERIENCE. AND THEN AFTER THAT, WE CAN FOLLOW UP WITH, POTENTIALLY QUESTIONS FOR HER OR, QUESTIONS FOR BRIAN, LET'S SEE. LISA, CAN YOU HEAR US ? YES. CAN YOU HEAR ME? WE CAN, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. THANK YOU. AWESOME. I HAVE A VERY BRIEF, POWERPOINT. SO I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR HAVING ME HERE TODAY. I'M REALLY EXCITED TO SHARE, A LITTLE BIT OF SUCCESS ABOUT MONTGOMERY. CAN YOU SEE THE SCREEN THAT LOOKS LIKE THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING OVER IT, IS THAT YOUR COMPUTER? IS THAT IS THAT YOUR COMPUTER? IS THAT OKAY? IT IS OUR OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. YEAH, WE'RE WORKING ON THAT. LISA. OKAY. I CAN, I CAN, I CAN TALK. I THINK THAT IT WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. SO, AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

I'M REALLY HAPPY TO BE HERE TODAY TO TALK ABOUT MONTGOMERY COUNTY'S INCLUSIONARY ZONING PROGRAM. THE MODERATELY PRICED DWELLING UNIT ORDINANCE. I'M LISA GOVONI. I'M THE HOUSING PLANNER AT THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY PLANNING DEPARTMENT IN MARYLAND. I'VE BEEN THERE FOR ALMOST NINE YEARS NOW, AND ONE OF MY PRIMARY ROLES IS WORKING ON THE MPDU PROGRAM ON THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE.

SO FIRST, I WANT TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF A PRIMER TO YOU, YOUR SCREEN STILL HAS STUFF ON IT, IT LOOKS LIKE. I THINK IT'S LET ME SEE WHAT I CAN DO. ONE MORE, ONE MORE. LET ME TRY IT AGAIN. YES THAT'S. GOT IT. YOU SAID IT. BACK UP. YOU'LL BE FINE. THANK YOU. I'M OKAY.

SOUNDS GOOD. THIS BETTER. PERFECT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, SO WHERE? SO MONTGOMERY COUNTY, IT'S A SUBURBAN COUNTY LOCATED RIGHT OUTSIDE WASHINGTON, DC, WE'RE A MATURE SUBURB. WE HAVE OVER A MILLION PEOPLE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND ITS DEVELOPMENT CONTEXT, WE HAVE AN AGRICULTURAL RESERVE AND OUR UP COUNTY AREA, WHICH IS REALLY PROTECTED FARMLAND THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY BUILD ON. WE ALSO HAVE A MID COUNTY AREA, THAT WE LIKE TO CALL OUR EMERGING COMMUNITIES. WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF, REDEVELOPMENT OF AGING STRIP MALL CENTERS INTO VIBRANT MIXED INCOME COMMUNITIES. THERE AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE A THRIVING DOWN COUNTY, AREA, PLACES LIKE BETHESDA WHERE WE SEE, GRAND TOWERS OVER 300FT, THAT HAVE REALLY BECOME, YOU KNOW, THEIR OWN LOCAL ECONOMIES AND JOB CENTERS, IT'S A REALLY DIVERSE AND VIBRANT COUNTY, AND IT'S A GREAT PLACE, TO LIVE. SO I'M JUST GOING TO JUMP RIGHT IN TO THE MPDU PROGRAM, SO MONTGOMERY COUNTY MODERATELY PRICED DWELLING UNIT ORDINANCE, IT'S BELIEVED TO BE THE FIRST COUNTY, THE FIRST THE COUNTRY'S FIRST MANDATORY INCLUSIONARY ZONING LAW. IT WAS ENACTED IN 1974. SO THIS YEAR IS OUR 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF HAVING THE PROGRAM WITH THE AIM OF FURTHERING THE OBJECTIVE OF PROVIDING A FULL RANGE OF HOUSING CHOICES FOR ALL INCOME, AGES AND HOUSEHOLD SIZES. I DON'T THINK I'M SAYING ANYTHING NEW WHERE MONTGOMERY COUNTY, LIKE MANY OTHER JURISDICTIONS, IS STRUGGLING WITH THE HOUSING CRISIS AND THE MPDU PROGRAM IS ONE OF THE TOOLS THAT WE HAVE AT OUR DISPOSAL TO HELP MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE AFFORDABLE IN THE COUNTY. SO THE MPV PROGRAM LIKE, LIKE WAS INTRODUCED. IT'S AN INCLUSIONARY ZONING PROGRAM.

THE NUMBER OF MPDU AND THE LOCATION OF MPDU, THEY'RE ESTABLISHED DURING LAND USE AND ZONING APPROVALS OF NEW CONSTRUCTION DEVELOPMENT AND WHAT WE CALL THE PRELIMINARY PLAN OF SUBDIVISION, WHICH IS REALLY YOUR FIRST OR YOUR FIRST CRACK AT A DEVELOPMENT PROJECT IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY. AND THEY ARE SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF THE PLANNING BOARD. THE MPDU LAW REQUIRES 12.5% TO 15, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE IN THE COUNTY OF ALL UNITS IN THE ELEMENTS, OVER 20 UNITS TO BE AFFORDABLE TO MODERATE INCOME HOUSEHOLDS, AND THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, AS INTRODUCED IN THE POWERPOINT EARLIER, THERE ARE OPTIONAL INCENTIVES TO HELP INCREASE THE NUMBER OF MPDU, WHETHER IT'S BONUS DENSITY OR ADDITIONAL HEIGHT, REDUCED PARKING. AND WE'LL GET INTO THAT IN A COUPLE OF SLIDES. SO THERE'S REALLY TWO TYPES OF MPDU IN THE COUNTY.

THERE'S THE FOR SALE UNITS, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, HOMEOWNERSHIP UNITS. AND THEN THERE ARE THE RENTAL UNITS, AND THE MPDU PROGRAM HAS DIFFERENT CONTROL PERIODS FOR BOTH THE RENTAL UNITS AND THE FOR SALE UNITS, WE WERE LOSING A LOT OF THE UNITS TO THE EXPIRATION OF THESE UNITS WITH BECAUSE WE HAD VERY SMALL CONTROL PERIODS OF ONLY LIKE 20 TO 30 YEARS, SO NOW

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THE CONTROL PERIOD FOR RENTAL UNITS IS 99 YEARS. SO BASICALLY IN PERPETUITY AND 30 YEARS FOR THE, FOR SALE UNITS, AND, AND IF THAT UNIT IN THAT 30 YEAR FOR SALE CONTROL PERIOD IS SOLD WITHIN THAT 30 YEAR PERIOD, THAT CLOCK STARTS OVER AND THE MPDU SALES PROGRAMS AND THE RENTAL PROGRAMS, THEY'RE RUN PRETTY DIFFERENTLY. THE RENTAL RATES FOR THE RENTAL UNITS ARE BASED ON INCOME LEVEL, AND THEY'RE ADMINISTERED BY LEASING OFFICES, AND THEY REQUIRE ANNUAL RECERTIFICATION BY TENANTS, FOR THE FOR SALE UNITS, THE PRICES ARE BASED ON CONSTRUCTION COSTS, AND THEY MAINTAIN A DEEPER AFFORDABILITY, AND THEY'RE ADMINISTERED BY THE COUNTY, AND THEIR AFTER THEIR PURCHASE, THEY DO NOT REQUIRE ANY FURTHER INCOME LEVEL CERTIFICATION. THE CURRENT THE PROGRAM CURRENTLY SERVES HOUSEHOLDS EARNING UP TO 65% OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME FOR GARDEN STYLE RENTAL UNITS AND UP TO 70% OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME INCOME FOR SALE AND HIGH RISE MULTIFAMILY IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY , OUR AREA MEDIAN INCOME FOR A HOUSEHOLD OF 4 IN 2024 IS ABOUT 155,000. SO YOU CAN SEE THAT AT 65 TO 70% OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME. AND SHOWING THESE ON THE SCREEN, YOU CAN SEE THE ELIGIBLE, THE MAXIMUM INCOMES FOR MPDS. YOU CAN SEE THAT IT'S SERVING A MODERATE INCOME HOUSEHOLD, BUT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, MUCH LOWER THAN THE 100% OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME. FOR IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY , THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN INSTANCES WHERE IT MIGHT BE INFEASIBLE TO PROVIDE THE MDUS, IN THE COUNTY, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO US THAT EVERY EFFORT IS MADE TO PROVIDE THE RIGHT REQUIRED MPDU ON SITE. THERE MIGHT BE EXTRA ORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE DEVELOPMENT CANNOT PROCEED WITH MPDU ON THE SAME LOCATION, AND THE DEVELOPER CAN CONTACT THE COUNTY TO PROPOSE AN ALTERNATIVE PAYMENT. ALTERNATIVE LOCATION. AND THESE AGREEMENTS ARE AUTHORIZED AT THE DISCRETION OF THE COUNTY, WHICH MAKES NO GUARANTEES THAT THEY'LL BE APPROVED, FOR ALTERNATIVE PAYMENT AGREEMENTS. WE DON'T DO THOSE FOR RENTAL DEVELOPMENT. WE FEEL LIKE THOSE ARE ALWAYS FEASIBLE TO PROVIDE ON SITE, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN INSTANCES IN THE FOR SALE MARKET, FOR EXAMPLE, A HIGH RISE LUXURY CONDO WHICH HAS A LOT OF AMENITIES THAT MAKE IT INFEASIBLE FOR THE AVERAGE MPDU PURCHASER OR RENTAL, PURCHASER TO BE ABLE TO ACQUIRE ONE OF THESE UNITS. SO THEN WE WOULD, WE DO SOMETIMES ALLOW ALTERNATIVE PAYMENT AGREEMENTS. YOU CAN ALSO DO ALTERNATIVE LOCATION AGREEMENTS FOR HIGH RISE BUILDINGS, TOO, THEY YOU KNOW, IF YOU DO AN ALTERNATIVE LOCATION AGREEMENT, THEN YOU MUST INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF MPDU OR INCREASE THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS PROVIDED, AND THESE ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, THERE'S VERY FEW TIMES WHEN WE APPROVE AN ALTERNATIVE AGREEMENT BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT THESE UNITS ARE PROVIDED FOR US ON SITE. BUT THERE ARE EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE WE MAY ACCEPT THEM. LIKE I SAID, THE COUNTY HAS INCENTIVES TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL MPV USE. OBVIOUSLY THE MOST COMMONLY USED INCENTIVE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND OTHER INCLUSIONARY ZONING PROGRAMS IS BONUS DENSITY. THE COUNTY HAS A THREE TIERED BONUS DENSITY SYSTEM FOR ADDITIONAL MPDU OVER THE MINIMUM OF 12.5. SO IT'S A THREE TIERED SYSTEM THAT KIND OF TAPERS OFF, BUT IT GOES ALL THE WAY UP TO 100% MPDU. BUT THE MOST COMMON, BONUS DENSITIES THAT WE SEE ARE 15 PROJECTS THAT PROVIDE 15% MPDU. THEY GET A 22% BONUS DENSITY AND 25% MPDU YOU GET A 35% BONUS DENSITY. WE ALSO ALLOW ADDITIONAL HEIGHT FOR TO ACCOMMODATE YOUR ADDITIONAL MPDU. SO TO THE EXTENT THAT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE THOSE ADDITIONAL MPDU OVER THE MINIMUM REQUIRED, THE MASTER PLANNED OR ZONED HEIGHT DOES NOT APPLY, AND IN FACT, YOU KNOW, THE TALLEST BUILDING IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY THAT'S BEING BUILT RIGHT NOW IS A PROGRAM WITH A LOT OF PROJECT, WITH A LOT OF MPDU THAT WERE ABLE TO GET TWO ADDITIONAL FLOORS. AND WE THINK THAT'S THAT SPEAKS TO OUR SUCCESSES, THAT THE TALLEST BUILDING IN THE COUNTY IS GOING TO BE AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT. WE ALSO ALLOW IMPACT TAX WAIVERS OR DISCOUNTS IF FOR PROJECTS THAT PROVIDE 25% MPDU IS JUST AN INCENTIVE TO PROVIDE THOSE HIGHER NUMBERS OF MP2'S. AND, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, THERE ARE CHALLENGES, EVEN THOUGH WE'VE HAD THE PROGRAM FOR, YOU KNOW, 50 YEARS NOW THERE, WE'RE STILL LEARNING NEW THINGS EVERY SINGLE DAY. I THINK THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THAT WE'RE STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW IS THOSE HIGHLY AMENITIZED, HIGH RISE LUXURY CONDOS THAT WE SEE IN A LOT OF OUR URBAN AREAS AND SENIOR HOUSING WITH SERVICES.

THOSE SERVICES AND THOSE CONDO FEES MAKE IT UNAFFORDABLE TO THE AVERAGE MPDU PURCHASER OR RENTER , ONE OF THE STRATEGIES WE'VE DONE TO COMBAT THAT IS USING OUR HOUSING TRUST FUND, THE HOUSING

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INITIATIVE FUND, TO KIND OF BUY DOWN THOSE MORTGAGES OR BUY DOWN THOSE SERVICES. BUT OBVIOUSLY WE CAN'T DO THAT WITH EVERY WITH EVERY PROJECT. BUT IT'S ONE STRATEGY THAT WE HAVE. IT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, I'LL BE VERY HONEST, IT'S A VERY COMPLEX PROGRAM TO RUN, I WORK AT THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, BUT I'M IN CLOSE COORDINATION WITH OUR DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY AFFAIRS AND OUR HOUSING AUTHORITY, HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES COMMISSION, TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS PROGRAM RUNS SMOOTHLY. IT ALSO REQUIRES CLOSE COORDINATION WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO DELAYS, THAT THE PROGRAM IS RUNNING SMOOTHLY, THAT AND WHO THE UNITS ARE GOING TO, WHO THEY ARE INTENDED TO GO TO. WE'VE ALSO RECEIVED A LOT OF CRITICISM THAT THEY ARE AN ADDED COST TO DEVELOPMENT. THAT MAKES THE MARKET RATE UNITS MORE EXPENSIVE, THEY ARE YOU KNOW, A PRIVATE SECTOR PROVIDED SUBSIDY ON THEIR END. AND THEY ALWAYS TELL US THIS IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE THING THAT YOU ASK FOR BY FAR, OF ALL THE PUBLIC BENEFITS THAT WE ASK FOR, FOR US IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S TRADE OFFS. IT'S THE MPDU PROGRAM IS OUR CROWN JEWEL IN HOUSING POLICY. AND, YOU KNOW, IN THE WAKE OF DECLINING FEDERAL AND STATE RESOURCES, THE MPDU PROGRAM AT THE COUNTY HAS REALLY BECOME, OUR SAVING GRACE IN TERMS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, FINALLY, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IS INCOME TARGETING, THE PROGRAM, AS I SHOWED YOU, IT SERVES MODERATE INCOME HOUSEHOLDS IN THE COUNTY. BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WANT US TO REACH LOWER TO REACH THAT 50. AMI THAT'S REALLY HARD TO GET WITHOUT A LOT OF SUBSIDY, I WILL SAY THE MPD PROGRAM HAS A 0% VACANCY RATE, AND THERE'S A WAITING LIST FOR THOSE UNITS, THERE, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT THESE UNITS EVEN AT 65 OR 70% AMI AND I'M SURE THAT IF THAT 50% AMI, THERE WOULD BE JUST AS MUCH DEMAND. BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T PRODUCE THE HOUSING, THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS FAST AS WE NEED IT. IT'S JUST A REALLY QUICK BY THE NUMBERS. THIS IS OUR 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE PROGRAM. THE COUNTY AVERAGES ABOUT 300 UNITS A YEAR. WE HAVE OVER 8000 MPD'S UNDER CONTROL. ABOUT 3600 HOMEOWNERSHIP MP2'S, 3100 RENTAL MP2'S AND 84 APARTMENT BUILDINGS AND 100 AND ANOTHER 1600. THAT'S OWNED BY OUR HOUSING AUTHORITY, HOK AND OTHER NONPROFITS AND NONPROFITS. IN OUR IN OUR HOUSING AUTHORITY, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO PURCHASE AND USE FOR THEIR OWN, PROGRAMS AND POLICIES. AND THEY'RE OFTEN THEY OFTEN BUY DOWN THE RENTS AND THE MORTGAGES TO MAKE THEM MORE AFFORDABLE. AND THIS IS A GRAPH THAT SHOWS YOU, YOU KNOW, THAT THE MPD PROGRAM HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL. WE'VE PRODUCED OVER 16,000 TOTAL MP2'S. IT'S ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL INCLUSIONARY ZONING PROGRAMS IN THE COUNTY, BUT THE BUT THE MPD PROGRAM, IT'S VERY DEVELOPMENT ON IT'S DEPENDENT ON DEVELOPMENT IN THE COUNTY TO PROCURE TO, SO IF YOU'LL NOTICE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE VERY CYCLICAL NATURE OF THE MPD PROGRAM IN THE 80S, WE WERE BOOMING. WE WERE GETTING A LOT OF MPD OUT OF, YOU KNOW, SINCE EXPIRED. BUT, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE GREAT RECESSION, WE REALLY HAVEN'T REBOUNDED, AND YOU CAN SEE MPDU PRODUCTION OF VERY ALIGNED WITH OUR BUILDING PERMIT PRODUCTION HAS NEVER REALLY PICKED UP SINCE AFTER THE GREAT RECESSION. AND YOU CAN ALSO SEE THE SHIFT FROM, YOU KNOW, THE FOR SALE MARKET. AS THE COUNTY WAS BOOMING, SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS, IN THE 80S AND 90S, WE'VE NOW MOVED LARGELY TO A LOT OF MOSTLY RENTAL UNITS, RENTAL PROJECTS BEING BUILT AS WE MOVE TOWARDS INFILL DEVELOPMENT AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I HAVE, TWO MORE SLIDES LEFT THAT I THINK YOU KNOW, SPEAK TO THE SUCCESSES. I'D LIKE TO END ON THE SUCCESSES OF THE PROGRAM.

SO ONE OF THE BRIGHT SPOTS, RIGHT SPOTS TO THE MPD PROGRAM IS THAT THE COUNTY HAS BEEN GAINING INCOME, RESTRICTED RENTAL HOUSING AT A FASTER RATE THAN IT'S BEING LOST. MOST OF THE UNITS THAT WE'RE LOSING ARE SECTION EIGHT UNITS WITHIN LARGER MARKET RATE PROPERTIES, BUT WE'RE WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY. BUT MOST OF THE UNITS THAT ARE BEING BUILT ARE THOSE MDUS THAT ARE COMING WITH NEW DEVELOPMENT. RIGHT. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT HERE, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE COUNTY'S INCOME RESTRICTED UNITS ARE FROM THE LEACACH PROGRAM, NOT SURPRISINGLY. BUT SINCE 2000, MOST OF THE INCOME RESTRICTED UNITS ARE MPD'S THAT WE'RE GETTING FROM NEW DEVELOPMENT, AND, YOU KNOW, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE KNOW BIG TECH IS THE PRIMARY VEHICLE TO CREATE THE MAJORITY OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN MOST OF THE COUNTRY, BUT THE MPDU PROGRAM REALLY HIGHLIGHTS OUR SUCCESS AND BEING ABLE TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING OUTSIDE OF THE STATE AND FEDERAL PROGRAMS, BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, MPDU IS ARE THE PRODUCT OF A NEW OF NEW DEVELOPMENT AND OUR NEW DEVELOPMENT IS ENSURING THAT WE ARE KEEPING PACE WITH BUILDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THE COUNTY. AND I THINK I THINK THAT'S IT, I KNOW THAT WAS VERY BRIEF. AND I TALKED VERY QUICKLY, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET TIME FOR QUESTIONS. NOW, THAT WAS GREAT. THANK YOU. LISA, LET'S. DOES ANYBODY HAVE

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SPECIFIC QUESTIONS FOR LISA THAT WE CAN ADDRESS? YEAH, I DO, JUST A MINUTE. WHY AM I NOT IN? THANK YOU, COUNCILWOMAN PIAGENTINI. SORRY. JUST TO BE CLEAR, ARE WE ONLY ADDRESSING, LISA'S PRESENTATION, OR ARE WE TALKING MORE BROADLY ABOUT THIS? ABOUT. LET'S TALK ABOUT LET'S LET'S HAVE QUESTIONS FOR LISA FIRST, AND THEN WE CAN, AFTER THAT, WE CAN TALK MORE BROADLY ABOUT, ABOUT THE CONCEPT AND THAT SORT OF THING. OKAY. I'LL RESERVE TO BECAUSE I DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE A QUESTION SPECIFICALLY FOR LISA. I HAVE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS MORE BROADLY BASED AND SPECIFIC TO LOUISVILLE. SO I'LL WAIT. OKAY. OKAY, COUNCIL COUNCILMAN REED, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION SPECIFICALLY FOR LISA OR DO YOU WANT TO KNOW? YES. MR. CHAIR, I DO. SO, THANK YOU, LISA, FOR COMING, SO MONTGOMERY COUNTY AND I HAVE I'VE TRAVELED THERE MANY TIMES, BUT HOW MANY SQUARE MILES IS MONTGOMERY COUNTY? WHAT IS THE POPULATION? I'M NOT SURE OF SQUARE MILES, BUT THE POPULATION IS 1.1 MILLION. OKAY. AND WITHIN THAT, ARE THERE ANY, SUBURBAN CITIES OR HOME RULE CITIES, LIKE WHAT WE HAVE HERE IN LOUISVILLE? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THAT OR NOT, BUT WE HAVE SEVERAL HOME RULE CITIES. I'M NOT SURE I KNOW WHAT A HOME RULE CITY IS. I DON'T I DON'T THINK WE ARE ONE THEN. OKAY, SO THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION. OKAY. AND, THANK YOU, WHAT IS THE AVERAGE MEDIAN INCOME? 155,000 FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR. OKAY. AND YOU MENTIONED THAT IT, TAKES SEVERAL IN YOUR DEPARTMENT TO OPERATE THIS PROGRAM. HOW MANY? BUT THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, THERE'S ME AS THE PRIMARY HOUSING CONTACT. BUT WE ALL OF THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW, WHICH IS ABOUT 30 PEOPLE THAT ALL TOUCH THE PROGRAM. AND THEN THERE'S THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY AFFAIRS THAT ALSO HAS LIKE ONE PRIMARY CONTACT, BUT A HOUSING DEPARTMENT THAT'S LIKE A SIX PEOPLE THAT WORK ON THE PROGRAM. OKAY. AND THEN FINALLY, THIS I GUESS MIGHT BE SUBJECTIVE, BUT HOW DO YOU DEFINE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, IS THAT A PERCENTAGE OF AVERAGE MEDIAN INCOME? IS IT RENT SUBSIDIZED? IS IT JUST MIDDLE, YOU KNOW, MIDDLE HOUSING THAT MAY BE LESS EXPENSIVE THAN, YOU KNOW, YOUR AVERAGE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING? SURE. AND MONTGOMERY COUNTY, THE MPD PROGRAM IS, AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND AFFORDABLE TO HOUSEHOLDS EARNING 65 TO 70% OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. HEY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT. WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. COUNCILWOMAN. COUNCILMAN TIME.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. A COUPLE QUESTIONS, HOW MANY UNITS, ON THE IN THESE, DEVELOPMENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SLOTTED FOR SALE AND WHAT DOES OWNERSHIP WHERE DOES IT FIT IN? WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? CAN YOU REPEAT YOUR QUESTION ON THE THESE UNITS THAT YOU HAVE TO BUILD. AND THERE'S A PERCENTAGE THAT GOES TO YOUR MPD USE HOW MANY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SLOTTED FOR SALE. HOW MANY OF THESE UNITS DO YOU USE. ARE THEY ARE MANDATED TO SELL 12.5 TO 15. IF IT'S A HOME OWNERSHIP PROJECT , IT DEPENDS ON WHERE IT IS IN THE COUNTY, BUT GENERALLY IT'S 12.5. AND HOW HOW DO YOU ALL DETERMINE YOUR AM I, WE USE HUD HUD'S, INCOME LIMITS. OKAY. THANK YOU. SORRY MR. CHAIR, I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION, WHENEVER I GET TO YOU OR FOR THIS, WE CAN TAKE THAT QUESTION. WE CAN TAKE THAT QUESTION NOW. COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI. OH, GREAT, JUST WANT TO CONFIRM SOMETHING. I WAS LOOKING UP, AND AGAIN. THANK YOU. LISA, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME HERE. IT'S ALWAYS NICE TO HAVE OTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS COME AND COLLABORATE WITH US, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF MONTGOMERY COUNTY'S COST OF LIVING AND COST OF HOUSING AS COMPARED TO LOUISVILLE, LOUISVILLE, ARE AVERAGE COST OF HOUSING IS SLIGHTLY BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, ABOUT 4% OR SO BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. AS FAR AS HOUSING COSTS, I'M LOOKING AT A WEBSITE HERE LOOKING AT AVERAGE COST OF LIVING FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY IS ROUGHLY 38% HIGHER

[00:40:05]

THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. AND THEN WHEN WE LOOK AT HOUSING SPECIFICALLY, IT'S LIKE 92% HIGHER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE . SO GENERALLY HOUSING COSTS ARE ALMOST DOUBLE WHAT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS THAT. IS THAT ACCURATE? I'M TRYING TO GET AN ACCURATE SENSE OF THE AVERAGE COST OF LIVING AND AVERAGE HOUSING COST BASED COMPARED TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY. YES, THE COST OF LIVING IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY ARE EXTREMELY HIGH, 50% OF OUR RENTERS ARE COST BURDEN. RENTS ROUTINELY GO OVER $2,000, AND THE AVERAGE DETACHED HOME IN THE COUNTY IS NOW OVER $1 MILLION. SO IT'S A VERY EXPENSIVE PLACE TO LIVE. THANK YOU, COUNCILWOMAN PARISH, RIGHT. DID YOU HAVE. THANK YOU. I JUST ASKED, TO BE ADDED TO THE QUEUE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION, LISA. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT, AND I, I, COUNCILMAN READ KIND OF COVERED SOME OF MY QUESTION ABOUT, I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOME OWNERSHIP. I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT IN THE PATHWAYS TO HOME OWNERSHIP THROUGH WHAT YOU'RE DOING. AND WE HAVE A BIG NEED. OUR BIGGEST NEED IS 30% AMI. A BIGGER GROWING NEED IS 50 AND 80. SO IT SEEMS LIKE YOURS. WHAT YOU PRESENTED HOVERS BETWEEN THE 65 AND 70. AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU SHOWING THE CHALLENGES OF TWO, ANOTHER CHALLENGE IS ONE IS GETTING AFFORDABLE HOUSING ACROSS OUR WHOLE COUNTY. I WANTED TO SEE IF YOU HAD ANY INFORMATION ON, DEMOGRAPHICS, AGE, DEMOGRAPHICS OR ANY DEMOGRAPHICS YOU GOT AS FAR AS RACE, AGE, JUST TO SEE WHO'S ACCESSING IT, BECAUSE WE HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF 30 PEOPLE WHO ARE 30 AND BELOW WHO ARE NOT ON ANY PATHWAYS TO HOMEOWNERSHIP. AND WE REALLY WANT TO AND WE WANT TO KEEP THOSE FOLKS IN THE CITY. SURE IN TERMS OF DEMOGRAPHICS, BECAUSE THE PROGRAM, THE RENTAL PROGRAM IS ADMINISTERED BY THE LEASING DEPARTMENTS, THEY GENERALLY DON'T HAVE. THEY DON'T ARE THEY? THEY DON'T SHARE WITH US THE DEMOGRAPHICS. BUT I CAN TELL YOU, ONE THIRD OF THESE UNITS THROUGH PARTNERSHIPS WITH OUR HOUSING AUTHORITY, WITH PARTNERSHIPS WITH NONPROFITS, SERVE HOUSEHOLDS 50% AMI OR LOWER, WE ALSO CAN USE OUR HOUSING TRUST FUND TO HELP BUY DOWN THOSE RENTS AND BUY DOWN THOSE MORTGAGES TO MAKE THEM AFFORDABLE TO MORE HOUSEHOLDS. SO EVEN THOUGH THE PROGRAM TARGETS 65 TO 70% AMI, ONE THIRD OF THESE UNITS ARE SERVING, YOU KNOW, LOW INCOME HOUSEHOLDS. AND SO THEY DON'T EVEN TRACK, LIKE AGE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. YOU DON'T KEEP UP. WE'RE TRYING, WE BECAUSE IT'S SO SCATTERED. IT'S HARD TO DO, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT OUR COUNCIL HAS ASKED US TO DO. AND SO WE'RE HOPING TO HAVE BETTER INFORMATION ON WHO'S OCCUPYING THESE UNITS. BUT WE DO KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DID, THE VACANCY RATE IS 0. IT'S ONLY TURNOVER UNIT. SO THESE UNITS ARE OCCUPIED AND PEOPLE WANT THEM. GREAT TO KNOW. THANK YOU. COUNCILMAN BATSON, THANK YOU, LISA, FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. WE REALLY APPRECIATE THAT, A QUESTION I NEEDED JUST A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY ON YOU HAD IN YOUR SLIDE THE MPDU, THE 99 YEAR AND THE 30 YEAR. SO IF THEY DEVELOPER BORROWS MONEY WITH THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FROM YOUR CITY, TO BUILD A MULTIFAMILY, THEY'RE UNDER CONTRACT WITH THE CITY FOR A 99 YEAR BEFORE THEY CAN TURN THAT OVER TO A PRIVATE DEVELOPER OR PRIVATE PURCHASER OF THAT PROPERTY. IS THAT CORRECT? NO. SO THE MPDU PROGRAM HAS A 99 CONTROL PERIOD. SO ANY DEVELOPER, WHETHER IT'S AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPER OR MARKET RATE DEVELOPER THAT BUILDS A MARKET RATE PRODUCT AND HAS MPDU THOSE MDUS HAVE A 99 YEAR CONTROL PERIOD AND OR A 30 YEAR YEAR CONTROL PERIOD IF IT'S HOMEOWNERSHIP. SO IF THEY WANT TO SELL IT AND IF THAT PERSON SELLS THAT HOME THAT OWNERSHIP HAS TO THAT THAT THAT CLOCK RESTARTS, THEN CORRECT. IF THEY SELL WITHIN THE 30 YEAR PERIOD. NOW, IF THEY WAIT 30 YEARS, THEY THEN THERE'S THEY THE CLOCK DOESN'T RESTART. THEY OWN IT FREE AND CLEAR. IF THEY SELL IT WITHIN THAT 30 YEAR PERIOD, THE CLOCK RESTARTS. AND ALSO IT'S A LIMITED EQUITY MODEL. SO THEY KIND OF YOU'RE ALLOWED, YOU'RE NOT BUILDING A LOT OF EQUITY THROUGH THE PROGRAM. BUT IT'S SOMETHING. AND YOU GET ABOUT A 10% ALLOWANCE ON YOUR EQUITY WHEN YOU SELL IT. THANK YOU FOR THAT, SECOND QUESTION IF THAT'S OKAY, CHAIR, THE SECOND ONE IS FOR BRIAN, IN OTHER CITIES, THERE'S SIMILAR PROGRAMS ARE OPEN EXCLUSIVELY TO TEACHERS, FIRST RESPONDERS, INCLUDING FIREMEN, EMTS, POLICE OFFICERS AND HEALTH CARE WORKERS IN NEED. COULD IMPLEMENTING A SIMILAR ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENT HERE HELP INCENTIVIZE THE RECRUITMENT OF MORE POLICE OFFICERS AND ESSENTIAL WORKERS? YES. WE ALSO HAVE A COUNTY PROGRAM FOR PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THE COUNTY TO HELP THEM WITH FIRST TIME HOME BUYER AND PURCHASES, BUT THE MPDU PROGRAM, WHEN IT WAS, ENVISIONED IN 1974, ONE OF THE PRIMARY WAYS THAT IT WAS TALKED ABOUT WAS FOR HOMEOWNERS HOME OPPORTUNITIES

[00:45:06]

FOR OUR TEACHERS, OUR FIREFIGHTERS, WE HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES WITH THE PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THIS COUNTY, CAN'T LIVE IN THIS COUNTY. AND SO THE MPDU PROGRAM WAS ENVISIONED AS ONE TOOL TO HELP, THOSE THOSE TEACHERS AND FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICEMEN LIVE AND LIVE IN THIS COUNTY THAT THEY WORK IN. THANK YOU. I WAS I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, I MEAN, THE PROGRAMS THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT, I MEAN, THEY, THEY TAILOR VERY MUCH TO THEIR NEEDS TO THE, THEIR COMMUNITY'S NEEDS. AND SO IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT IF WE CHOSE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME KIND OF PROGRAM LIKE THIS, WE COULD THAT THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD CONSIDER AND WORK INTO, YOU KNOW, A DRAFT REGULATION. BUT IT JUST AGAIN, IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHATEVER THE WANTS AND NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY ARE THAT THAT, IS, IS ATTEMPTING TO ADOPT THESE TYPES OF REGULATIONS . THANK YOU. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE FOR LISA? BECAUSE I WANT TO I DON'T WANT TO HOLD HER TOO LONG. IF WE'RE IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR LISA, AND I DON'T SEE ANY, LISA, THANK YOU SO MUCH, REALLY APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME TO COME AND PRESENT FOR US, IT IS REALLY HELPFUL TO GET OTHER PERSPECTIVES FROM OTHER PLACES. AND SO, THANK YOU SO MUCH, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. HAVE A GREAT DAY. THANK YOU. LISA OKAY. SO I THINK, WE CAN KIND OF KICK OFF A SECTION WHERE WE, HAVE SOME QUESTIONS AND TALK ABOUT KIND OF THE POLICY MORE GENERALLY, LET ME LET ME KIND OF START BY SAYING, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE THAT THE POLITICAL WILL IS THERE FOR, FOR THIS KIND OF PROGRAM IN LOUISVILLE AT THE MOMENT. I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER, BUT I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF IT IS. BUT WE'VE HAD IN MANY OF OUR COUNCIL MEETINGS SINCE I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL, I'VE HEARD MY COLLEAGUES KIND OF SAY IN A RHETORICAL MANNER, HOW DO WE GET AFFORDABLE UNITS SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY? HOW DO WE HOW DO WE WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT CONCENTRATED IN VERY SPECIFIC PLACES AND EVERY TIME I HEAR ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES SAY THAT ACROSS MY MIND, SAYS INCLUSIONARY HOUSING OR INCLUSIONARY ZONING, IT'S ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAYS OF MAKING SURE THAT THAT HAPPENS. AND SO THAT'S WHY I DECIDED THAT WE SHOULD HAVE THIS CONVERSATION IN THIS COMMITTEE, WHETHER WHETHER WE DECIDE TO PURSUE IT OR NOT. I WANTED TO AT LEAST SAY TO EVERYONE, PRESENT THE INFORMATION TO EVERYONE AND SAY, HERE'S ONE TOOL THAT REALLY IS EFFECTIVE AT HELPING SPREAD AFFORDABLE UNITS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY. AND THEN THE OTHER THING I'LL SAY BEFORE OPENING UP FOR OTHER QUESTIONS FOR OTHER PEOPLE, IS WHEN I TALK TO THE MAYOR'S OFFICE ABOUT THIS, HE AND I BOTH AGREED THAT THAT IN ORDER TO GET BUY IN FROM THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE ABSOLUTELY HAD TO CONSIDER THINGS LIKE LISA WAS TALKING ABOUT, LIKE DENSITY, BONUSES AND HEIGHT, YOU KNOW, REMOVING HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS AND FACILITATING OR, YOU KNOW, REDUCING FEES AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS THAT WE CAN DO AT THE CITY LEVEL TO INCENTIVIZE DEVELOPERS AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT THEY'RE BOUGHT INTO THE PROGRAM. SO JUST FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE ASKING A DEVELOPER TO BRING 10% OF THE UNITS IN A 100 UNIT DEVELOPMENT AND MAKE THOSE AVAILABLE FOR 60, THERE, IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE PRO FORMA OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT. SO IN ORDER TO TRY TO CLOSE THE GAP THAT THEY'D BE LOSING BY BRINGING THOSE AFFORDABLE UNITS INTO THEIR DEVELOPMENT, YOU ALLOW THEM TO BRING TO BUILD MORE UNITS THAN THE CODE WOULD OTHERWISE ALLOW. SO THE MORE UNITS YOU BRING ON, THE MORE MONEY YOU CAN MAKE. AND SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE IDEA WOULD BE THAT THEY CAN MAKE AS MUCH OR MORE MONEY THAN THEY WOULD IF THE INCLUSIONARY ZONING OR INCLUSIONARY HOUSING, LAW WAS NOT IN PLACE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. SO I THINK WE WANT TO BE VERY REALISTIC ABOUT THIS AND TRY TO BRING THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY ALONG WITH IT. IF WE DECIDE THAT IT'S THAT IT'S VIABLE, OKAY. COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI, YOU WANT TO GO FROM THERE? YEAH. THANK YOU, AND I THINK YOU TEED IT UP. WELL, LOOK , TO SOME DEGREE, I WOULD ARGUE WE HAVE ALREADY STARTED DOING THIS ON A VERY LIMITED BASIS. RIGHT FOR EXAMPLE, AND I DON'T MEAN TO SPEAK FOR COUNCILMAN REEVES DISTRICT, BUT NORTON COMMONS HAS DETACHED HOUSING, ATTACHED HOUSING, APARTMENTS, AND HAD AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENT. ONE PARK, WHEN IT GOT APPROVED, HAD A PERCENTAGE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENT. SO AND I'M JUST PICKING ON TWO LARGE, WELL-KNOWN DEVELOPERS. SO TO SOME DEGREE, WE HAVE STARTED DOING THIS. AND I AM NOT AGAINST, CONTINUE DOING THAT TREND AND LOOKING AT WHERE IT MAKES SENSE, TO CREATE THESE MIXED USE DEVELOPMENTS AND OR INCORPORATING SOME PERCENTAGE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING. HERE'S WHERE I HAVE SOME CONCERNS. NUMBER ONE, GLOBAL CONCERN, I POINTED OUT MONTGOMERY COUNTY, THEY ARE

[00:50:06]

HOUSING IS TWICE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. THEY'RE ONE OF THE MOST UNAFFORDABLE HOUSING MARKETS IN THE COUNTRY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE OTHER CITIES, STATES AND JURISDICTIONS THAT LARGELY ARE USING THIS, THEY ARE THE MOST UNAFFORDABLE AREAS IN THE UNITED STATES, THE NORTHEAST, ON THE COAST AND CALIFORNIA ON THE COAST. THE REASON THEY ARE UNAFFORDABLE IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL AND ZONING REGULATIONS THAT MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD WITHOUT AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF OVERHEAD COSTS TO THE DEVELOPERS, MAKING THEM MAKING IT NECESSARY FOR THEM TO CHARGE INCREDIBLE RENTS AND INCREDIBLE DOLLARS TO MAKE UP THEIR MONEY. WE DO NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM, OR AT LEAST NOT TO THAT DEGREE, RIGHT? WE ARE ACTUALLY IN A HOUSING MARKET THAT'S BELOW THE MEDIAN. SO I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT TAKING ADVICE FROM CITIES THAT CAN'T GET OUT OF THEIR OWN WAY ON THE ACTUAL WAY TO REDUCE HOUSING COSTS, WHICH IS REDUCE BUREAUCRACY, REDUCE OVERHEAD, REDUCE AND BUILD. RIGHT. YOU BUILD SUPPLY, IT KEEPS PRICE DOWN. AND I THINK SOME OF THE INITIATIVES WE'RE LOOKING AT RELATED TO THAT, I HAVE A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR, BUT INSTEAD THESE ARE JURISDICTIONS THAT REFUSE TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES AND INSTEAD PUT IN BAND-AIDS LIKE THIS THAT, AS SHE INDICATED, ACTUALLY INCREASE THE COST OF HOUSING.

AND THEY'RE IN A PERPETUAL, PERPETUAL SPIRAL OF, NOT ADDRESSING THE ROOT CAUSE OF HOUSING UNAFFORDABILITY, WHICH IS BUREAUCRACY, OVERHEAD. THE SECOND PART IS I WOULD BE HARD AGAINST, HARD AGAINST. AND I WANT TO BE SUPER CLEAR ON THIS USING DENSITY AS A SUBSIDY FOR DOING THIS, PARTICULARLY IN OVERDEVELOPED AREAS OF THE COUNTY COMING FROM THE DISTRICT THAT NOBODY ELSE IN THE CITY COMES CLOSE AS FAR AS OVERDEVELOPMENT, WHERE WE ARE STRUGGLING, LITERALLY DESPERATE TO INCREASE THE INVESTMENT AND A LOT OF IT IS SPACE, TO BE FRANK, TO KEEP UP WITH ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE TO SUPPORT THE 30% PLUS GROWTH PER DECADE THAT WE'RE SEEING IN RESIDENTIAL HOUSING IN MY DISTRICT, THE, THE, IF WE ARE GOING TO USE DENSITY AS THE TOOL TO SUBSIDIZE THIS AND THIS IS MY BEEF WITH MR. D AS WELL, THEN PUTTING IT INTO THE MOST RURAL AND SUBURBAN AREAS OF THE COUNTY WITHOUT COMMENSURATE SUPPORT, INFRASTRUCTURE SUPPORT OR AREAS THAT ARE ALREADY SUPER TAXED ON INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS, I THINK IS A HUGE MISTAKE. NOW IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT INFILL AREAS, AND I THINK OUR GUEST SPEAKER ALLUDED TO THEM LOOKING, THEY'RE LOOKING AT THAT AS WELL. WE'RE LOOKING AT DOWNTOWN AND OTHER AREAS GOING UP AN EXTRA FLOOR. WHO CARES RIGHT. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAVE THE SAME IMPACT. AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, DOWNTOWN WE HAVE UNDERUTILIZED INFRASTRUCTURE BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE MOVED OUT. SO I THINK WE JUST NEED TO BE COGNIZANT ABOUT, ONCE AGAIN, A ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE SUSTAINABLE IN CERTAIN AREAS OF THE COUNTY. BUT AGAIN, NOT WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THIS HAPPEN IN CERTAIN AREAS, INCLUDING OUR SUBURBAN AREAS. AND TO SOME DEGREE, I DON'T THINK THOSE PORTIONS OF IT ARE BAD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WOW, YOU YOU YOU REALLY LAID YOUR YOUR CONSERVATIVE BONA FIDES THERE ON THE ON THE FRONT END OF THAT. I MEAN, THE ONLY THING I'M, I'M LAUGHING BECAUSE YOU TALK ABOUT EXPENSIVE CITIES. AND WHEN I THINK OF EXPENSIVE CITIES, I THINK OF VERY URBAN, VERY HIP PLACES THAT PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE.

AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE SO EXPENSIVE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE MOVING THERE FOR MANY, MANY DECADES. DO THEY HAVE SOME BUREAUCRACY THAT ADDS TO THOSE COSTS? OF COURSE. BUT I THINK IT'S JUST FUNNY. THE PERSPECTIVE THAT YOU LAY IT ALL AT THE FEET OF BUREAUCRACY AND I LAY IT BOTH AT SOME BUREAUCRACY, BUT ALSO DEMAND PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE THERE. AND SO PRICES ARE VERY HIGH. CAN I RESPOND? I THINK YOU'RE SPOT ON, MR. CHAIR. IF YOU DON'T MIND ME RESPONDING REAL QUICK. IT'S BOTH. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. SUPPLY AND DEMAND DRIVE PRICE PERIOD. FULL STOP. EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOISE. OKAY, SO WHEN DEMAND IS HIGH, MANY OF THOSE JURISDICTIONS DO NOT RESPOND BY INCREASING SUPPLY. THEY ACTUALLY RESTRICT IT. SO YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

IT'S BOTH THINGS HAPPENING SIMULTANEOUSLY IN SOME OF THOSE JURISDICTIONS. RIGHT. BUT BUT THAT IS THE FACT THEY ARE HIGH DEMAND AND LOW SUPPLY OR THE SUPPLY IS NOT KEEPING UP A LOT OF THAT DUE TO BUILDING REGULATIONS. AND AGAIN, I, I NERD OUT BY READING ECONOMISTS IN MY FREE TIME. AND SOME OF THEM HAVE CITED THESE CITIES AND CITED SPECIFIC POLICIES THAT MAKE IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD MARKET RATE. HOUSING IN THESE HIGH DEMAND AREAS BECAUSE LOCAL JURISDICTIONS MAKE IT OR STATE REGULATIONS MAKE IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SO. AGAIN. WE HAVE A CITY HERE WHO IS BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IN HOUSING COSTS. CURRENTLY WE DO WANT TO

[00:55:04]

KEEP IT THAT WAY. WE WANT TO PURSUE POLICIES THAT KEEP IT THAT WAY. I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT EMULATING JURISDICTIONS THAT HAVE THE EXACT OPPOSITE PROBLEM. THEY ARE WILDLY EXPENSIVE, WILDLY OVERPRICED, AND NOW WE'RE USING WEIRD GOVERNMENT BASED TOOLS TO FIX THE PROBLEM. AND IN SOME, TO SOME DEGREE, THOSE SAME TOOLS EXACERBATE THE PROBLEM. BUT THAT'S FAIR. I WAS REALLY JUST I WAS REALLY JUST TWEAKING YOU. THAT'S IT'S FAIR. IT'S. BUT I JUST WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE I JUST WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT'S BOTH DEMAND AND OTHER THINGS. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THAT'S REALLY, LET'S SEE, COUNCILMAN BATSON. YEAH. THANK YOU. CHAIR, SO I HAVE A QUESTION, AND I THINK IT'S MORE OF A COMMENT, ESSENTIALLY. AND IT KIND OF PIGGYBACKS OFF OF COMMENTS THAT, COUNCILMAN SAM HAS MADE IN THE PAST. AND AS I SIT HERE AND I CALCULATE SOME NUMBERS IN, IN FAIRDALE, WHERE COUNCILMAN SAM REPRESENTS, THE AVERAGE MEDIAN INCOME IS $53,779. VALLEY STATION 4272, AVERAGE MEDIAN INCOMES $64,614. AND WE TALK ABOUT THIS 30% AMI AND DEVELOPMENTS ARE BEING BUILT WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING DOLLARS, TO BE AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS. WELL, WITH THAT BEING SAID, THE IN VALLEY STATION, THE AVERAGE RENT FOR AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNIT WITH THE 30% AMI IS ABOUT $1,242.63. FAIRDALE $1,141.17.

SPEAKING TO PRIVATE DEVELOPERS WHO ARE BUILDING MARKET RATE UNITS IN THESE COMMUNITIES ARE AVERAGING TWO BEDROOM APARTMENTS, NO AFFORDABLE HOUSING DOLLARS AT 11 AND $1,200 A MONTH. WHY ARE THESE NUMBERS AND THESE UNITS ONLINE NOT CALCULATING TO THE 15,000 NUMBER THAT WE'RE WE ARE SAYING WE'RE ALWAYS SHORT. SO JOEL DOC, WITH THE OFFICE OF PLANNING, I'M STEPPING IN FOR BRIAN DAVIS WHO HAD TO STEP AWAY, THE AREA MEDIAN INCOME IS BASED ON THE 12 COUNTY AVERAGE FOR AREA MEDIAN INCOME. SO TO YOUR POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, VALLEY STATION AND FAIRDALE AND IN YOUR DISTRICT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS ACTUALLY AFFORDABLE AT 30% AREA MEDIAN INCOME DIFFERS FROM LOCATION TO LOCATION. AND THERE ARE OTHER METHODS OF CALCULATING MEDIAN INCOME. WE DON'T HAVE TO USE ARMY. THERE ARE OTHER METHODS OF DOING AREA MEDIAN INCOME LIKE FOR INSTANCE BY ZIP CODE. BUT THE REASON WHY AREA MEDIAN INCOME IS LARGELY USED AS THE TOOL IS BECAUSE IT CREATES A AN AN EQUAL INCOME DISTRIBUTION ACROSS THE ENTIRE AREA THAT YOU'RE BASING IT ON, SO THAT IT'S EVEN AS YOU MOVE BETWEEN AREAS SO THAT THE MOST AFFORDABLE UNIT DOESN'T REMAIN CONCENTRATED IN THE AREA, WITH THE MOST NEED FOR AFFORDABILITY, THAT THAT AFFORDABILITY CAN THEN BE DISPERSED THROUGHOUT THE AREA , MEET THE AREA. SO THE ARMY IS YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S A IT'S A 12 COUNTY AVERAGE OF MEDIAN INCOME. AND TO YOUR POINT, YES, I MEAN IT. AND COUNCILMAN SYME, YOU'VE MENTIONED THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES. THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING NUMBER IS OFTEN HIGHER THAN WHAT THE MARKET ACTUALLY IS IN THE AREA. SO WE'RE JUST ESSENTIALLY REQUIRING IN SOME AREAS FOR A UNIT TO BE AT AREA MEDIAN INCOME. BUT THAT'S JUST THE GOING PRICE FOR A UNIT IN THAT AREA. WHEREAS IN ANOTHER AREA, THE AREA MEDIAN INCOME CONTROLS TO ENSURE THAT THAT DOESN'T GO ABOVE WHAT THE MARKET IS IN THAT AREA, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO THAT QUESTION? JOEL? IT MAKES SENSE. AND IN NO DISRESPECT, BUT IT JUST SEEMS THAT IF YOU WERE A DEVELOPER AND YOU'RE USING CHEAPER MONEY TO BUILD THESE UNITS, THAT THE RATE OF RENT WOULD BE CHEAPER THAN WHAT THE MARKET RATE IS, AND THE PRIVATE DEVELOPERS ARE BUILDING MARKET RATE UNITS WITH NO DISCOUNTED MONEY TO BUILD THEM AND NO REQUIREMENTS AT A CHEAPER RATE THAN BUILDING AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNIT. SO THEN AND THAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNIT AT THE TIMES ARE MOST OFTEN 50, 100, $150 MORE PER PER MONTH IN RENT. SO AGAIN, I GO BACK TO THE NUMBERS ARE SKEWED, SOMETHING IS MISSING. AND I'M NOT AGAINST IT, I DON'T I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT WE NEED TO WE NEED TO GET THOSE NUMBERS TIGHTENED IN A LITTLE BIT BETTER, IF WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SELL AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WE GOT TO GET THE NUMBERS DOWN, BECAUSE IF THE NUMBERS ARE HIGHER AND THE MARKET RATES CHEAPER, IT'S CHEAPER FOR THE PERSON THAT'S ON AFFORDABLE HOUSING VOUCHERS JUST TO GET A MARKET RATE UNIT. RIGHT. AND I THINK BRIAN MADE

[01:00:03]

THE POINT THAT ANYTHING THAT WE DO HERE IN LOUISVILLE NEEDS TO BE TAILORED SPECIFICALLY TO OUR NEED HERE IN LOUISVILLE. SO IF OUR NEED HERE IN LOUISVILLE IS ENSURING THAT TEACHERS AND, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES CAN AFFORD, WELL, LET'S LOOK AT THOSE INCOME SPECIFICALLY AND THEN TAILOR OUR REGULATIONS IN A MANNER TO ALLOW FOR THOSE INCOMES TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD A HOME. BUT WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO MAKE THIS VERY SPECIFIC TO LOUISVILLE. IF WE PURSUE INCLUSIONARY HOUSING. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY A LITTLE BIT IN EQUITY AND HOUSING COMMITTEE. WHEN THE ORDINANCE PASSED THAT BASICALLY DIRECTED OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND MONEY TO THE LOWER END OF THE SCALE. AND THOSE ARE THE HARDEST UNITS TO BUILD. THE MOST DIFFICULT UNITS TO BUILD ARE THE ONES FROM 0 TO 30% OF AMI, BECAUSE YOU NEED SIGNIFICANTLY MORE SUBSIDY TO BRING THE RENTS DOWN THAT FAR. AND SO WHAT I WAS SAYING IN THAT MEETING YESTERDAY WAS I JUST WANTED THE GROUP TO KNOW THAT IF WE'RE SPENDING MORE MONEY TO GET MORE AFFORDABLE UNITS, THEN WE'LL BE ABLE TO SERVE FEWER PEOPLE, RIGHT? SO IF YOU HAVE A FIXED AMOUNT OF MONEY AND YOU'RE SPENDING FOR EACH UNIT AT A, AT A AT A HIGHER LEVEL OF AFFORDABILITY, YOU HAVE TO SPEND MORE MONEY PER UNIT TO GET IT THAT AFFORDABLE. AND SO AS A RESULT, YOU'RE ABLE TO BRING FEWER TOTAL UNITS ONLINE BECAUSE YOU'RE CONCENTRATING MORE OF YOUR MONEY INTO MORE AFFORDABLE UNITS. AND I WAS OKAY WITH THAT. I VOTED FOR YOU. REMEMBER, WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION YESTERDAY, ADAM, I VOTED FOR IT BECAUSE I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE ADDRESS THOSE 0 TO 30% OF AMI WITH OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND MONEY, BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE HARDEST UNITS TO BUILD. SO SOMETHING LIKE INCLUSIONARY HOUSING, I THINK. LISA WAS SAYING IS REALLY, REALLY, DIRECTED MORE TOWARD 65, 75, 80% OF AMI, WHICH ARE MORE WORKING FAMILIES THAT JUST, YOU KNOW, MAKE NEED A LITTLE BIT, A LITTLE BIT OF HELP. THEY'RE NOT THE POOREST OF THE POOR. SO THE INCLUSIONARY ZONING WOULD BE WOULD REALLY BE MORE WORK FORCE HOUSING THAN IT. YOU KNOW, THE WORD AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS SO BROAD. THIS IS THE INCLUSIONARY ZONING REALLY APPLIES AND WORKS BETTER FOR PEOPLE 70, 80, EVEN 90% OF AMI AND YOU'RE JUST GIVING THEM, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE A LITTLE BOOST AND THEY'RE GOING TO LIVE. THEY CAN LIVE IN NEIGHBORHOODS, YOU KNOW, ALL OVER THE COUNTY. I KNOW IT'S KIND OF COMPLICATED, BUT, THE, THE LIKE 50% AND BELOW ARE THE HARDEST UNITS TO BUILD AND REQUIRE THE MOST SUBSIDY, AND SO THEY DON'T REALLY FIT IN WELL WITH AN INCLUSIONARY ZONING PROCESS, WHICH IS WHY SHE WAS SAYING A THIRD OF THOSE UNITS IN THEIR INCLUSIONARY HOUSING PROGRAM, ARE ALSO ADDITIONALLY SUBSIDIZED BY VOUCHERS OR SOMETHING ELSE, OR, OR THEY PAY DOWN MORE INTO THOSE UNITS TO BRING THAT RENT EVEN FARTHER DOWN TO, TO, TO ADDRESS THE LOWEST, THE LOWER INCOME PEOPLE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. ARE WE GOING TO AGREE TO DISAGREE? WELL WE CAN YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK WE JUST NEED TO CONTINUE TO HAVING, HAVING HAVING THE DISCUSSION. DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE OKAY. I DON'T I DON'T WANT TO MAKE THIS ANY LONGER. I JUST WANT TO SAY A SUBSIDY IS A SUBSIDY, WHETHER IT'S ON THE FRONT END OR THE BACK END AND ALL OF THESE INCENTIVES HELP PEOPLE AT DIFFERENT LEVELS. I WANT TO SEE DEVELOPERS WHO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE MORE THAN 36,000 UNITS THAT ARE NEEDED, AND I DO AGREE THAT IT WILL TAKE A MULTIFACETED, TAILORED APPROACH FOR WHAT OUR HOUSING NEEDS ARE. AND I THINK THAT WE I'M A I'M A HONORED TO BE A PART OF THIS AD HOC COMMITTEE BECAUSE I THINK WE GET TO HELP LOOK FORWARD AND BE PROACTIVE IN A WAY THAT LOUISVILLE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO BE. AND I DON'T WANT TO ERASE THE FACT OF WE'RE STILL DEALING WITH THE IMPACTS OF REDLINING AND OTHER 99 YEAR DEALS THAT WERE JUST LIKE WE WERE PUT IN, AND WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT . AND SO WE'RE STILL DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF SOME OF THAT. AND SO OUR DECISION MAKING HAS TO BE WHAT'S BEST FOR THE GREATER GOOD. BUT THE NEED FOR HOUSING COMES UP IN EVERY SURVEY, NO MATTER WHERE YOU TAKE IT AROUND THIS COMMUNITY, EVEN FOLKS WHO ARE HOUSED OR WHO COME FROM REALLY NICE NEIGHBORHOODS, IT IS A HUGE NEED, AND I, I LIKE THE EXAMPLES THAT COUNCILMAN PIAGENTINI GAVE. NORTON COMMONS WAS ABLE TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT WAS UNIQUE FOR THEM. I REMEMBER DRIVING UBER THROUGH THERE. I COULDN'T AFFORD TO LIVE THERE, BUT I REMEMBER DRIVING THROUGH THERE AND SEEING THE COMMUNITY THAT WAS CREATED. YOU HAVE THE ONE PARK DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU KNOW THAT IS THAT HAS OPTIONS FOR SUPPORTIVE THINGS LIKE SUBSIDIES OR YOU HAVE ALL THESE TIF PROJECTS THAT ARE COMING UP. SO THESE SUBSIDIES, I DON'T SEE THEM DIFFERENT AS THE SUBSIDIES WE GIVE ANYBODY THAT'S BELOW THE 50% MEDIAN AREA, MEDIAN INCOME. WE JUST HAD A REPORT THAT SAYS $40,000 IS MIDDLE CLASS. IF SOMEONE MAKES A

[01:05:08]

$40,000 SALARY IN LOUISVILLE, IT'S CONSIDERED MIDDLE CLASS. NOW, MANY OF US KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT ALWAYS A FAMILY OF FOUR ON 40,000. WITH THE INFLATION IS NOT THE SAME AS IT USED TO BE.

BUT THAT'S WHAT THE NUMBERS SAY. SO I'M JUST SAYING OUR JOB IS TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THE GREATER GOOD AND THE NEEDS OF OUR COMMUNITY. AND IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED THAT WE NEED ALL THESE UNITS AT DIFFERENT LEVELS. AND I THINK ANYBODY THAT WHETHER YOU'RE RENTING OR YOU WANT TO BUY, SHOULD HAVE THOSE OPTIONS AVAILABLE. AND WE GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT TOGETHER.

SO I DON'T WANT TO DERAIL US, BUT I THINK THAT THE NEED IS SO GREAT THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO BE OPEN TO ALL THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS. AND A SUBSIDY IS A SUBSIDY. THANK YOU.

COUNCILMAN. TIME THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT HOW MUCH SUBSIDIES PLAY INTO THE THIS AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND HOW LONG UNTIL THE WELL RUNS WELL, RUNS DRY, AND WHY? WE'RE JUST NOT PUTTING ANYTHING INTO HOME OWNERSHIP. WE KEEP PEOPLE IN PERPETUAL RENTING, AND WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT AT HOME OWNERSHIP. WHEN I LOOKED AT THE GRAPH FROM FROM MASS, FROM THE GIRL, FROM OUT OF STATE, I MEAN, IT'S ALL RENTALS. IT'S ALL APARTMENTS. AND WE CANNOT GET AWAY FROM FROM FOLKS HAVING A CHANCE TO OWN. AND I JUST, I MEAN, SUBSIDIZING SUBSIDIZING. IT'S GOING TO RUN OUT AND THEN AND, AND WE STARTED TALKING YESTERDAY ABOUT, THE 50 CENT AND 50% AND BELOW GETTING SUBSIDIES, GETTING HELP. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE 51 AND 55% WHO'S TRYING TO BUY AND GET OUT OF THE HOLE AND DOING THE RIGHT THING? THERE'S NO HELP FOR HIM. SO I JUST I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THESE SUBSIDIES AND THE. WELL RUNNING DRY AND THE PERPETUAL RENTING AND WE DO I THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE GIRL ABOUT FOR THE SALE UNITS. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT OWNERSHIP. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RENTALS AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PERPETUAL RENTING. AND I'M WORRIED ABOUT HOW MUCH SUBSIDIES ARE PLAYING INTO THIS. AND WHEN DOES THE WELL RUN DRY? THANK YOU . ANYBODY ELSE IN THE QUEUE? ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING THEY NEED TO SAY BEFORE WE WRAP UP HERE. SO OUR OUR NEXT MEETING FOR AD HOC COMMITTEE IS NOT UNTIL JULY 18TH. AT THAT POINT WE'RE GOING TO DO A KIND OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING 101, SESSION WITH, CHRISTY MCCREEVY, WHO RUNS THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND, SO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE KIND OF KEEP TALKING ABOUT, WHAT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING, HOW IS IT BUILT, HOW IS IT, HOW IS IT FINANCED? THOSE ARE ALL THE THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH AT THAT NEXT, MEETING ON JULY 18TH. SO AGAIN, THANKS TO EVERYBODY FOR BEING HERE. AND,

[Adjournment Note: Agendas are followed at the discretion of the Chair. While an item may be listed, it does not mean all items will be heard and/or acted upon by the Committee.]

WITH NO OTHER BUSINESS BEFORE US, WE ARE ADJOURNED.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.

Special Discussion

1. ID 24-0334 INCLUSIONARY ZONING –Joe Haberrman, Joel Dock, and Rachel Casey, Office of Planning, Lisa Govoni, Housing Planner Montgomery County, Maryland

Jun 13, 2024 Ad Hoc Committee on Land Use

Special Discussion

1. ID 24-0334 INCLUSIONARY ZONING –Joe Haberrman, Joel Dock, and Rachel Casey, Office of Planning, Lisa Govoni, Housing Planner Montgomery County, Maryland

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