[Call to Order]
          [00:00:49]
          THIS IS THE MARCH 12TH 2024 MEETING OF THE LOUISVILLE METRO COUNCIL COURT MEETING IN THE MATTER OF THE REMOVAL CHARGES AGAINST COUNCILMAN ANTHONY PAGE, PLEASE COME TO ORDER. THE TIME IS CURRENTLY 9:01 A.M. THIS PROCEEDING IS BEING HELD PROCEED TO KRS, 61, 826 AND COUNCIL RULE FIVE A UH, MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CAUSE THE RECORD TO REFLECT ANY COUNCIL MEMBERS NOT PRESENT HAVE 
          [Roll Call]
BEEN AFFORD AN EXCUSED ABSENCE OR AN EXCUSED TARDY. ALSO JOINING US ARE LAWYERS FOR THE JEFFERSON COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, WHO REPRESENT THE COUNCIL COURT. AS WE BEGIN, I'D 
          [Agenda]
REMIND EVERYBODY TO PLEASE SPEAK CLEARLY AND DIRECTLY INTO YOUR MICROPHONE TO ENSURE THAT YOUR STATEMENTS ARE ACCURATELY HEARD AND RECORDED BY OUR COURT REPORTER, UH, THE CLERK MUST TRACK ANY MEMBER THAT DOES NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE MEETING IN ITS ENTIRETY. IF YOU'RE PARTICIPATING, PARTICIPATING VIRTUALLY, UH YOU MUST KEEP YOUR CAMERA ON THROUGHOUT THE PROCEEDING, OR YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO SIGN AN ATTESTATION, UH, THAT YOU WITNESSED THE PROCEEDINGS IN THEIR ENTIRETY. THE COUNCILS FOR BOTH THE CHARGING COMMITTEE AND THE RESPONDENT ARE PRESENT. UH, COUNCILS, WILL YOU PLEASE AGAIN INTRODUCE YOURSELVES FOR THE RECORD? WE'LL START WITH MR WICKER TODAY. GOOD MORNING, KENT WICKER AND DATA GRANT FOR THE CHARGING COMMITTEE. THANK YOU, MR SMITH, GOOD MORNING CHAIR WINKLER BROOK AND SMITH AND MIKE SWANS FOR COUNCILMAN PITI. OK, THANK YOU, UH, MEMBERS OF THE COURT. WE WILL RESUME WHERE WE 
          [1. ID 24-0104     Removal Hearing Proceedings]
LEFT OFF YESTERDAY. UH, MR SMITH . I BELIEVE WE'RE READY FOR YOUR NEXT WITNESS. UH, YES. CHAIR. 
          WINKLER COUNCILMAN PAGE CALLS RICK RIM TO THE STAND. MR RIMS WILL BE JOINING US VIA VIDEO TELECONFERENCE. THANK YOU. UH, WE'LL GIVE JUST A MINUTE TO GET MR EMMERT ON BOARD. UM. 
          NOT OUR FIRST RODEO. 
          MR REMER, CAN YOU HEAR US? YES. GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING. UH, MR DRUMMERS. UH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, UH, SWEAR YOU IN, UH AND THEN WE'RE JUST ASK THAT YOU MAKE SURE YOU STAY ON CAMERA, UH, THROUGHOUT THE DURATION OF YOUR TESTIMONY, UM, ALSO, JUST WITH THE VIDEO WOULD ASK THAT YOU MAKE SURE THAT BOTH THE BOTH ATTORNEYS WHEN THEY ASK YOU A QUESTION THAT YOU ALLOW THEM TO JUST FINISH ASKING THE QUESTION, UH, BEFORE YOU BEGIN TO RESPOND SURE, OK, UH, HOLLYWOOD COULD BE MY MICRO MR RUMORS, WOULD YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND? DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. I DO. THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING, MR RIVERS. THIS IS BROOKE AND SMITH. UM WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? RICK RMER REMM ER S. MR RIMMER, WOULD YOU PLEASE TELL THE MEMBERS OF THIS COUNCIL COURT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND? YEAH, SURE. I, UM JOINED HUMANA IN 1987. AND UH, MADE A FULL CAREER AT THE COMPANY RETIRING AT THE END OF 2021. DURING WHICH TIME I LED A, UH, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ROLES IN THE COMPANY OPERATIONAL SALES . FINANCIAL, UH, BOTH HOSPITAL LEADERSHIP AND MANAGEMENT WHEN 
          [00:05:08]
WE OWNED HOSPITALS BACK IN THE, UH, EIGHTIES AND NINETIES AND THEN IN THE HEALTH INSURANCE FIELD, UH, SUBSEQUENT TO THE DISPOSITION OF THE HOSPITALS IN 1993 AND LIVED IN FIVE DIFFERENT CITIES OR STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY WORKING FOR HUMANA. UH, IN RETURNED ABOUT 23 OR FOUR YEARS AGO TO LOUISVILLE, WHERE I'M ORIGINALLY FROM AND FINISHED OUT MY CAREER THERE AS A CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS IN AGAIN VARIOUS OPERATIONAL AND FINANCIAL ROLES. THANK YOU. AND DID YOU HAVE A ROLE IN THE FOUNDING OF THE LOUISVILLE HEALTH CARE CEO COUNCIL? I DO, COULD YOU PLEASE DESCRIBE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT ? WHAT YOUR ROLE WAS IN THE FOUNDING OF THE THAT AND I'LL REFER TO IT, UH, SOMETIMES AS THE CEO OR THE CEO COUNCIL IS THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT I'M REFERRING TO THIS. THE LOUISVILLE HEALTHCARE CEO COUNCIL. SURE OK, SO COULD YOU JUST TELL FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT HOW THE CEO COUNSEL CAME TO BE FORMED? SURE UM, AGAIN, BEING A LIFELONG LOUISVILLE. EXCUSE ME IN A HEALTH CARE PERSON FOR MY WHOLE CAREER WHEN I RETURNED TO LOUISVILLE, UM I OBSERVED THAT IT WAS EARLY TWO THOUSANDS THAT, UM, WE SEEM TO HAVE A GREAT GROUP OF HEALTH CARE COMPANIES IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT PROVIDED A LOT OF EMPLOYMENT, A LOT OF INNOVATION AND A LOT OF, UM GRAVITAS, I GUESS IN THE HEALTH CARE FIELD BOTH LOCALLY AND REGIONALLY, IN SOME CASES NATIONALLY AND YET I FELT LIKE AND IT IS. I THINK THE LARGEST, UH, HEALTH EXCUSE ME ECONOMIC SECTOR IN LOUISVILLE AND IN MY TRAVELS AND WHERE I LIVED ELSEWHERE IN THE COUNTRY THROUGHOUT MY CAREER. I ALWAYS FELT THAT THAT LOUISVILLE AGAIN HAD THIS GREAT KIND OF GROUP OF COMPANIES. BUT THAT WE HAD NOT DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB PROMOTING OURSELVES AS A CAPITAL OF HEALTH CARE, UH, COMPANIES INNOVATION INVESTMENT. AND I FELT LIKE WE COULD DO BETTER. UM I LIVED IN TENNESSEE FOR A PERIOD IN MY CAREER, NASHVILLE IS VERY NOTABLE FOR ITS HEALTH CARE PRESENCE. IT'S BY FAR THE LEADING ECONOMIC AREA IN HEALTH CARE IN TERMS OF BIRTHING, GROWING AND HAVING COMPANIES BASED THERE AND HAVE A PRESENCE THERE. IT'S THE ENVY OF MOST IN THE COUNTRY, MUCH LIKE THE BAY AREAS IN CALIFORNIA FOR TECH. AND I JUST FELT AS I GOT A LITTLE BIT MORE OLDER IN MY CAREER MORE SEASONED IN MY CAREER THAT WE COULD DO BETTER AS A COMMUNITY, AND I HAD THIS IDEA THAT. WHAT IF WE WERE TO BRING TOGETHER THE LEADERS OF THESE COMPANIES AND FORM A GROUP TO DISCUSS ARE WE DOING AS WELL AS WE COULD DO IN OUR COMMUNITY, ECONOMICALLY SPEAKING, GROWING BIRTHING, ADVANCING BUSINESSES AND, UM AND I MET WITH, UH, 10 DIFFERENT CEO S THAT I KNEW SOME OF THEM THROUGH MY INTERACTIONS JUST IN THE COMMUNITY, AND SOME OF THESE WERE COMPETITORS OF HUMANA. OTHERS NOT AND, UM, IU. I ASKED HIM TWO QUESTIONS. ONE WAS, DO YOU THINK WE'RE DOING AS WELL AS WE COULD IN OUR ECONOMIC SECTOR OF OUR COMMUNITY OF HEALTH CARE? AND TO A PERSON, THEY SAID NO. AND I THEN HAD A SECOND QUESTION AND ONLY A SECOND QUESTION AND THAT IS, DO YOU THINK WE COULD DO BETTER IN UNIVERSALLY? THEY SAID YES. SO THAT WAS THE GENESIS WAS WHAT IF WE CAME TOGETHER AS LEADERS AND IN SOME WAY COLLABORATED? TO BOTH PROMOTE AND ADVANCE OUR ECONOMIC PRESENCE OF HEALTH CARE IN OUR COMMUNITY TO THE BETTERMENT OF THE COMMUNITY AND TO OUR COMPANIES AND TO INDIVIDUALS. AND WHEN DID THE CEO COUNSEL OFFICIALLY FORM? THESE DISCUSSIONS TOOK PLACE IN 17. AND HONESTLY, I CAN'T REMEMBER IT WAS IN 17, OR JUST EARLY INTO 18 THAT WE FORMED. UH 501 C FOUR TO CREATE WHAT WAS CALLED THE LOUISVILLE HEALTH CARE CEO COUNCIL. AND I WAS WORKING FULL TIME AT HUMANA. I RETIRED AT THE END OF 2021 FROM HUMANA. SO DURING THIS TIME, I WAS SORT OF DOING THIS. I HATE TO SAY THIS ALL THE SIDE OF MY DESK, BUT I WAS SORT OF DOING IT AS A PASSION PLAY FOR MY OWN INTEREST. AND I. I GOT INTEREST FROM EIGHT OF THE CEO S INITIALLY TO COME TOGETHER AND FORM THIS GROUP. AND TO BE HONEST, WE WEREN'T SURE AT THAT TIME EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE GONNA DO WITH THIS GROUP OTHER THAN WE HAD A WILLING GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT LED LARGE AND SUCCESSFUL COMPANIES WILLING TO COME TO THE TABLE, AND THEY OFFERED TO HAVE CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS FROM WITHIN THEIR COMPANIES WORK WITH ME TO HELP FORM THIS AND SEE WHAT WHERE IT COULD GO. SO THAT WAS THE GENESIS OF THIS COMING TOGETHER IN TO BE HONEST, I WAS REALLY SHOCKED THAT THERE WILLINGNESS TO ENGAGE BECAUSE AGAIN IT WAS ALL VOLUNTEER PEOPLE WERE GIVING THEIR TIME AND COMPANIES IN FACT, WERE ASKED TO PAY DUES INITIALLY AND STILL ARE TO BE A PART OF THIS COUNCIL, AND THAT'S SORT OF THE GENESIS OF HOW THIS CAME TOGETHER. UM OK? AND HAVE YOU, UM HAVE HAS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CEO COUNSEL CONTINUED SINCE ITS FOUNDING IN THE 2017 
          [00:10:03]
OR 2018 TIME FRAME. IT HAS, UH, WE FORMED THE GROUP AS I MENTIONED EFFECTIVELY IN 18 FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, AND WE HAD SEVERAL BOARD MEETINGS WITH THE EIGHTH CEO S, UH, THAT AGREED INITIALLY TO JOIN THE GROUP AND WE ARE OUR PRIMARY FOCUS DURING THAT FIRST YEAR WHERE I SORT OF PLAYED, I GUESS I'LL CALL IT THE STAFF ROLE LEADING THE GROUP, UM, WITH HELP FROM SOME OTHERS AND OTHER COMPANIES, WE KIND OF CHARTER, A VISION AND A PURPOSE FOR THE GROUP. AND IT WAS VERY CLEAR VERY EARLY ON THAT THE CEO AT THIS TABLE THOUGHT THAT COLLABORATIVE FOCUS ON INNOVATION WAS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE REALLY IMPORTANT AND REALLY PRODUCTIVE TO BOTH THEM AS COMPANIES, UH, TO OUR COMMUNITY AND CANDIDLY TO THE HEALTH SYSTEM AND CENTERED AROUND SENIOR HEALTH CARE FOCUSED. AGING KIND OF INNOVATION IN THOSE AREAS BECAUSE THE ONE COMMONALITY THAT ALL OF THESE COMPANIES HAVE WHILE THEY'RE DIFFERENT IN MANY RESPECTS, WHETHER IT'S HUMANA OR TRILOGY OR OTHERS AT THE TIME, UM, A COMMONALITY THAT WE HAD THAT MADE LOUISVILLE VERY DISTINCTIVE AND STILL DOES IN THE HEALTH CARE COMMUNITY NATIONALLY IS OUR FOCUS ON AGING IS OUR FOCUS ON SENIOR HEALTH CARE RELATED MATTERS AND AREAS OF FOCUS OF OUR BUSINESS IS OFTEN CENTERED AROUND THAT, SO THAT'S WHERE OUR COMMONALITY WAS. WE WERE ALSO REALIZING THAT WE HAD TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO TALK ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS, BECAUSE AGAIN THERE WERE COMPETITORS. IN THE ROOM, YOU KNOW, COLLABORATING AND WORKING TOGETHER, SO WE HAD TO BE VERY SENSITIVE TO THAT. SO THE GENESIS AND THE REAL FOCUS OUT OF THE GATE WAS IN THIS AREA OF A COLLABORATIVE, INNOVATIVE EFFORT. OK I AND I APPRECIATE THAT. AND I WANT TO TURN TO WHAT? UM WHAT THAT ALL ENTAILS IN JUST A MINUTE, BUT JUST MORE MORE FROM, UH, FROM A BACKGROUND PERSPECTIVE. UM YOU MENTIONED JUST TO SORT OF FILL IN THE GAPS HERE. THERE WAS ABOUT EIGHT HEALTH CARE COMPANIES WHO WERE THE ORIGINAL SORT OF FOUNDING MEMBERS OF THE CEO COUNCIL. WHO WERE THEY? OH, BOY, UM BRUCE BROUSSARD AT HUMANA. RANDY BUFFET, A TRILOGY. RUSS COX AT NORTON. UH, CHAIR COLEMAN AT BAPTIST. UM HOSPICE CAME ON BOARD. UH, MARK CARTER, WHO AT THAT TIME MANY OF YOU WILL RECALL PASSPORT WAS AN ENTITY IN THE, UM, HEALTH INSURANCE WORLD. UM A KINDRED WITH BEN BRYER. AND JOE STEER WAS SIGNATURE, AND I MIGHT BE SLIGHTLY OFF ON THAT. BUT THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY THE CORE GROUP. AND AS WE SIT HERE TODAY, UH, WHO ARE THE MEMBER COMPANIES OF THE CEO COUNCIL? UH THE GROUP WENT AFTER THE FIRST YEAR TO YEAR AND A HALF AND I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND DOUBLE CHECK MY DATES TO BE PRECISE. BUT I WOULD SAY BY 19. SO IN 2019, THE GROUP GREW BECAUSE THERE WAS INTEREST FROM OTHER MEMBERS OF OUR HEALTHCARE COMMUNITY IN LOUISVILLE TO ULTIMATELY, A NUMBER OF 15. UM AND TODAY I BELIEVE IT IS A 13. UM SO WE SO AGAIN. SURPRISINGLY FROM MY STANDPOINT, WE CAUGHT THE ATTENTION OF REALLY ALMOST ALL OF THE LARGE SIGNIFICANT COMPANIES THAT MAKE UP LOUISVILLE'S HEALTH CARE SECTOR. UH, SO WE ADDED, UH, A NUMBER OF COMPANIES WITH UM UH, LHC GROUP, WHICH ACQUIRED A COMPANY CALLED ALMOST FAMILY, WHICH IS IN THE HOME HEALTH BUSINESS JOINED, UH, ATRIA JOINED IN A COUPLE OF OTHERS AND BROUGHT THE GROUP TO EVENTUALLY 15. AND I WAS AGAIN EXTREMELY UNPLEASANTLY SURPRISED BECAUSE GETTING THE GARNERING THE ATTENTION OF THESE EXECUTIVES THAT RUN THESE COMPANIES AND SOME OF THEIR PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR THEM THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE WORK AND STILL DO OF THE COUNCIL. UM IS NOT AN EASY THING TO DO, AND WE ACTUALLY HIRED A CONSULTANT FROM NASHVILLE THAT HELPED FORM THE NATIONAL HEALTH CARE COUNCIL, WHICH IS THE BIGGEST IN THE INDUSTRY AND BY FAR THE BEST KNOWN WHO HELPED US FORM OUR COUNCIL. THIS IS BACK IN 18 AND IN THE EARLY 19. AND, UM THIS AREA OF COLLABORATIVE INNOVATION WAS AND CONTINUES TO BE A REAL FOCAL POINT FOR THIS GROUP BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY NEEDS IN HEALTH CARE BOTH FROM THE COMPANY STANDPOINT, THE PATIENT'S STANDPOINT, FAMILY, ET CETERA. SO I THINK LOUISVILLE DID HAVE AND CONTINUES TO HAVE, UH, A REAL OPPORTUNITY AND A DISTINCTIVE DIFFERENCE TO PROMOTING ITSELF AROUND THIS PART OF OUR ECONOMY AND OUR COMMUNITY AS BEING DIFFERENT THAN MOST AND ELSEWHERE IN THE US. A MINUTE AGO. YOU MENTIONED THAT, UH, EAR EARLY ON IN THE ORGANIZATION'S LIFESPAN. YOU WERE SORT OF LEADING THE ORGANIZATION FROM A STAFF POINT OF VIEW. WHAT IS YOUR ROLE WITH THE CEO COUNCIL TODAY? UH WE HIRED TAMMY OR DAY. UH, AGAIN. I WON'T HAVE THE DATE IN MY HEAD HERE, BUT I WANNA SAY IT WAS LATE 18 OR MAYBE THE FIRST OF 19 ABOUT THAT TIME FRAME. UM I WAS 
          [00:15:02]
EXTREMELY BUSY AT THE COMPANY AT HUMANA, AND, UH, I DID NOT HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO GIVE TO THIS, UH, OTHER THAN NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS, SO WE NEEDED A FULL TIME STAFF. AND WE BROUGHT TAMMY ON AND ONE OR TWO OTHERS. UH IN THAT FIRST YEAR, I GUESS OF OUR FORMATION. UM I CONTINUED TO BE A VOLUNTEER, UH, GIVING MY TIME WHERE, WHEREVER AND HOWEVER I COULD, WITH TAMMY, HER TEAM AND THE CEO S WITH HELPING ADVANCE AND CONTINUE TO DO THE WORK OF THE COUNCIL. UH, WITH ALL THE TIME I COULD SPARE UM, I RETIRED FROM HUMANA. AS I MENTIONED AT THE END OF 2021 AND IN SUMMER OF 22. TAMMY ASKED IF I WOULD BE WILLING TO COME ON BOARD AS AN ADVISOR TO THE CEO C SENIOR ADVISOR. I THINK THEY CALL IT AND AGAIN AT THAT POINT, I WAS NO LONGER WORKING. FROM AN EMPLOYMENT STANDPOINT, AND I WAS TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT TO DO NEXT. AND SO I DO SEVERAL THINGS A PART TIME AND ONE OF THEM IS I'M AN ADVISOR IN AND I. I AGREE TO VOLUNTEER, BUT SHE WANTED TO BE TO COMMIT MY TIME TO HELPING THE COUNCIL. SO I UNDERTOOK AN AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNCIL TO GIVE THEM SOME HOURS A MONTH. UH AND SO I AM A PAID ADVISOR TO THE COUNCIL. AND UM, HAVE BEEN SINCE JUNE OF 2022. AND A MINUTE AGO YOU MENTIONED THAT, UM, ONE OF THE KEY AREAS OF, UH OF CONCERN OR INTEREST FOR, UH, THE CEO COUNCIL IS THIS, UH, AREA OF INNOVATION. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT? SO FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR AND DON'T LIVE IN THE HEALTH CARE WORLD, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY INNOVATION? WHAT PROBLEM IS THAT TRYING? IS THAT SUBJECT TRYING TO TACKLE HEALTH CARE INNOVATION, LIKE A LOT OF INNOVATION COMES IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND FORMS. SO ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS TO DO WITH THIS HEALTH CARE COUNCIL WAS TO KIND OF DEFINE THAT AND PUT PARAMETERS AROUND IT. AND WHAT WAS VERY CLEAR. EARLY ON TO US WAS YOU CAN'T BOIL THE OCEAN, SO TO SPEAK, UH, WITH REGARD TO ALL HEALTH CARE, INNOVATION, AND WITH OUR INTEREST IN PARTICULAR COMPETENCY AMONG THESE COMPANIES IN SENIOR HEALTH CARE RELATED THINGS. IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT, UM AND I THINK MANY OF US CAN RELATE TO THIS IN OUR OWN LIVES WITH FAMILIES. MAYBE PERSONALLY, UH, FRIENDS THAT SENIORS WHEN THEY BEGIN TO NAVIGATE THROUGH THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, THERE'S THE CLINICAL SIDE OF WHAT THEY WITH DOCTORS, NURSES, HOSPITALS, DISEASE INJURIES WHAT HAVE YOU BUT THERE'S ALSO THE SUPPORT SIDE OF THAT AND WHAT WHAT'S REQUIRED TO SUPPORT A SENIOR IN THEIR FAMILY AS THEY NAVIGATE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, WHETHER IT'S INTO A HOSPITAL OUT OF A HOSPITAL AND WHAT WE CALL POST ACUTE SETTINGS, IT'S HOME HEALTH . IT'S THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE SITUATION. ALL THOSE ELEMENTS COME INTO PLAY AS PEOPLE NAVIGATE THIS HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THE TIMES. THAT'S PRETTY CHOPPY. UM, IT'S DEFINITELY FLUID, A GREAT DEAL OF TIME AND AGAIN. I THINK MANY OF US CAN RELATE TO THAT. AND I THINK THAT THE CEO SAW REALLY, REALLY CLEARLY EARLY ON THAT WE HAD A COMBINATION OF COMPANIES HERE IN THIS HEALTH CARE COUNCIL THAT REPRESENTED THE WHOLE CONTINUUM OF HEALTH CARE. AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, HUMANA ENSURES PEOPLE AND IS ALSO AT THE COUNCIL HAVE FAILED TO MENTION THEM EARLIER THEY REPRESENT ON THE BOARD OF THE COUNCIL. SO THOSE ARE HEALTH INSURERS, AND THEY DO OTHER THINGS AS WELL. AND YOU HAD THE HOSPITALS THERE LOCALLY IN LOUISVILLE WITH NORTON AND THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE AND BAPTIST, YOU HAVE POST ACUTE CARE. WHICH ARE ENTITIES LIKE, UM, KINDRED, UH, AND SCION HEALTH TODAY, WHO IS AN OUTGROWTH OF THE KINDRED? UH UH, SALE AND I WOULD SAY THAT, UH, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE EXPERIENCE OF PATIENTS AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS OR LOVED ONES AS THEY TRAVERSE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. WE SAW AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, WHERE ARE THE FRACTURES? WHERE ARE THE THINGS THAT DON'T WORK WELL AND OFTEN WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IS, IT'S THE CARE AND SUPPORT AROUND THE SENIOR, BOTH FROM THEIR FAMILY STANDPOINT, SOMETIMES IT'S CLOSE FRIENDS AND THEIR INTERACTION WITH THE HEALTH SYSTEM AS CAREGIVERS. AND SO WE SAW THIS REAL NEED TO IDENTIFY THESE GAPS AND TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND. WHERE ARE THESE AREAS THAT MAY BE TECHNOLOGY OR OTHER KINDS OF SERVICES WE COULD DELIVER IF WE LOOK AT THESE PROBLEMS OR YOU COULD SEE THAT AS OPPORTUNITIES, UM, TO COLLABORATE WITH ONE ANOTHER WHEN A PATIENT ENTERS A HOSPITAL COMES OUT OF A HOSPITAL GOES INTO SOME SORT OF POST ACUTE CARE SETTING HOME HEALTH, FOR INSTANCE, AND MAY COME BACK INTO A HOSPITAL AS THEY'RE NAVIGATING THESE EXPERIENCES AND THEIR HEALTH AND THEIR LIFE. HOW CAN WE TRY TO IDENTIFY THESE GAPS AND IMPROVE OR CLOSE SOME OF THESE GAPS TO BENEFIT THE PATIENTS, THEIR FAMILIES, THE COMPANIES THAT WORK WITH THEM? THE PROVIDERS, UM ALL INVOLVED CANDIDLY. SO THAT WAS KIND OF THE CENTER POINT OF OUR INNOVATION. IF YOU WANT TO THINK OF IT AS A ONE OF THE FOCAL 
          [00:20:01]
POINT FROM WHICH WE LOOKED AT IT AND SO TO TRY TO MAYBE TRY TO SUM UP WHAT YOU JUST SAID THERE. 
          WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT, UM, THE INNOVATION? UH PART OF WHAT THE CEO COUNCIL IS DOING. 
          THE IDEA WAS THAT BECAUSE YOU HAD THESE COMPANIES WHO REPRESENTED A VARIETY OF STAKEHOLDERS IN THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY, YOU COULD BRING THEM TOGETHER AND TO ADDRESS THESE AREAS WHERE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM MAY BE ENCOUNTERING SOME PROBLEMS AND BY HAVING A BROAD BASED COMPREHENSIVE VIEW, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO EXCHANGE IDEAS AND DEVELOP. NEW WAYS OF ADDRESSING THOSE CHALLENGES AS THEY WERE EMERGING. YES AND FOR SOME OF THOSE OF YOU, THAT MAY NOT BE YOU KNOW, IN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM. OR AS FAMILIAR WITH IT AGAIN. OFTEN PEOPLE ARE FROM THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE OR LOVED ONE. I WOULD TELL YOU THAT IN MY CAREER OF 35 YEARS OF BEING INVOLVED IN HEALTH CARE, WORLD DIFFERENT CAPACITIES. IT'S AMAZING HOW HARD IT IS TO BRING TOGETHER. SOMETIMES THESE DIVERGENT INTERESTS OF COMPANIES TO PROVIDE THESE SERVICES FROM HOSPITALS TO HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES TO AGAIN I CALL THEM POST ACUTE PROVIDERS. THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER KINDS OF PROVIDERS OUT THERE, HOSPICE, YOU NAME IT. 
          IT'S REALLY HARD TO GET PEOPLE TO SIT DOWN AT A TABLE THAT ARE PLAYING DIFFERENT ROLES ALONG THIS WHOLE CONTINUUM AND WORK TOGETHER IN THE LIFE OF ME. I OFTEN DIDN'T UNDERSTAND MAYBE WHY THAT WAS IN MY CAREER AND I. I CAN'T EMPHASIZE ENOUGH HOW UNIQUE WHAT WE'RE DOING IN LOUISVILLE IS AND SO WHEN WE BUILT A NATIONAL SHOWS AND NATIONAL CONFERENCES AND ALL THE THINGS THAT WE ALL INTERACT WITH , PEOPLE ARE AMAZED THAT WE'VE GOT 13 COMPANIES TODAY, SITTING DOWN AND WILLING TO WORK COLLABORATIVELY ON THESE KINDS OF PROBLEMS OR OPPORTUNITIES. 
          IT'S EXTREMELY DISTINCTIVE, PARTICULARLY WITH THE CEO LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT THAT WE HAVE AT OUR BOARD LEVEL, AND I WOULD CALL IT AS IMPORTANTLY, THE PEOPLE THEY ASKED TO GET INVOLVED WITH OUR EFFORTS FROM WITHIN THEIR COMPANIES, WHICH ARE DOCTORS, NURSES ADMINISTRATOR YOU KNOW DIFFERENT PEOPLE FOR DIFFERENT KINDS OF TOPICS WE TAKE ON IT'S REALLY DIFFERENT. YOU DON'T SEE THIS IN ANY OTHER COMMUNITY. I'M AWARE OF BECAUSE IT'S OFTEN HARD TO GET THESE ENTITIES TO SIT DOWN AND WORK TOGETHER. AND IN ORDER TO, UM ADVANCE THIS, UH, THE INNOVATIVE WORK INNOVATION WORK THAT THE CEO COUNCIL IS FOCUSED ON. DID IT SET UP A FORMAL, UH, COMMITTEE? IT DID. IT WAS CLEAR BECAUSE THIS WAS GOING TO BE THE INITIAL AND FOCAL POINT OF THIS HEALTH CARE COUNCIL WAS THAT WE HAD TO DETERMINE WHAT KIND OF STRUCTURE TO PUT TO THIS. SO WE, UH GOSH, PROBABLY THREE YEARS AGO CREATED IT MIGHT BE FOR AN INNOVATION COMMITTEE AND WE ASKED THE CEO S ON THE BOARD TO PUT FORWARD SOMEONE TO REPRESENT THEIR GROUP AS A MEMBER OF THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE, AND ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IN HEALTH CARE IS NO. ONE. NO ONE PERSON CAN KNOW ALL THINGS ABOUT ALL TOPICS. IT'S JUST TOO BROAD AND TOO COMPLEX TO DO THAT, SO THEY REALLY BEGAN TO SERVE AS SORT OF THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD GIVE OVERSIGHT. TO WHICHEVER COMPANIES INPUT INTO OUR AREAS OF EXPLORATION IN THE IN THE AREAS OF INNOVATION, AND THEN IT ALMOST ALWAYS RESULTED IN THEM REACHING INTO THEIR COMPANY FOR SOME AREA OF EXPERTISE ON THAT, GIVEN TOPIC WHEN WE BEGAN TO EXPLORE IT, SO THAT THAT STRUCTURE DID COME ABOUT, UH, TAMMY CHAIRED THE INITIAL INNOVATION COMMITTEES THAT WE HAD I ATTENDED MOST ALL THE MEETINGS. UH, FOR GOSH, SEVERAL YEARS NOW. AND THAT'S SORT OF THE STRUCTURE THAT WAS PUT TO IT. THEN WE WOULD REPORT BACK TO THE BOARD ON HOW WE WERE DOING AND WHAT TOPICS WE WERE UNDERTAKING AND WE WOULD GET BORED CONCURRENCE ON THAT AND SUPPORT FOR THOSE DIFFERENT TOPICS. AND SO JUST AGAIN, TO SORT OF SUM UP. UH, WHAT YOU SAID. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE HAS REPRESENTATIVES FROM EACH MEMBER OF THE EACH MEMBER OF THE CEO COUNCIL. THEY WORK TOGETHER TO TRY TO IDENTIFY AREAS WHERE FROM VARIOUS PARTS OF THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN COUNTERING CHALLENGES AND THEN TO TRY TO DEVELOP NEW STRATEGIES TO ADDRESS THOSE CHALLENGES. THAT'S CORRECT, OK? AND DID ALSO IN FURTHERANCE OF THIS, UH, THE FOCUS ON INNOVATION. DID THE CEO COUNCIL, UH, ESTABLISH A FUND TO, UH, INVEST IN COMPANIES WHO ARE, UH, DEVELOPING CUTTING EDGE STRATEGIES FOR ON IN INNOVATIVE WORK? UH, THAT DID COME ABOUT AND WE DID ESTABLISH A HEALTH CARE VENTURE CAPITAL FUND. AND WHAT? WHAT'S THE NAME OF THAT FUND? IT'S KNOWN AS THE AGING INNOVATION FUND. AND JUST I TRY TO SUMMARIZE IT. BUT WOULD YOU GIVE A BRIEF DESCRIPTION AS TO WHAT THAT FUND IS DOING? SURE UH , WE WENT THROUGH OUR FIRST, UH, TWO YEARS OF OUR INNOVATION WORK AND THE WAY THAT WOULD KIND OF UNFOLD IS WE WOULD EXPLORE THROUGH DISCOVERY LABS. WE CALL THEM AND STILL CALL THEM WITHIN THE INDIVIDUAL COMPANIES ON A GIVEN TOPIC, SO I CAN GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE LONELINESS AND ISOLATION AND SENIORS. BOTH THOSE AT HOME LIVING AT HOME AS WELL AS THOSE LIVING IN AN INSTITUTIONAL SETTING, LIKE THE SENIOR LIVING CENTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, A NURSING HOME ASSISTED LIVING AND WE WOULD, THEN WE WOULD EXPLORE THESE TOPICS. WE HAVE WHITE PAPERS BEHIND THEM, UH, A LOT OF 
          [00:25:04]
EXPERTISE PUT INTO THESE TOPICS, AND THEN WE WOULD GO OUT FOR CALLS FOR INNOVATORS CALLS FOR INNOVATION. USUALLY THESE ARE YOUNGER COMPANIES BRINGING TECHNOLOGY SERVICES FOR BOTH, UH TO BEAR ON THESE PARTICULAR PROBLEMS AND WOULD GO OUT THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AND CANDIDLY BEYOND THE US TO LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS THAT MIGHT HELP BRING REMEDIES TO THESE PROBLEMS , AND WE WOULD BRING THEM IN AND HAVE A COMPETITION TO ASSESS THEM ON WHAT THEY WERE DOING, YOU KNOW BY OUR COMPANIES THAT WERE INTERESTED IN THE TOPICS. AND UM, WE WOULD VALIDATE WHO WAS SEEMINGLY DOING REALLY INTERESTING THINGS. WE THEN COULD RESULT IN A PILOT WHERE ONE OF THESE YOUNG COMPANIES COULD GO TO WORK WITH A HUMANA OR A TRILOGY OR WHOEVER AND UNDERTAKE A PILOT ON HOW THEY MIGHT ENGAGE IN THAT PROBLEM WITH THAT PARTICULAR COMPANY AND HELP THEM SOLVE IT, OR, YOU KNOW , REMEDY IT OR CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO IMPROVE THE CARE PROCESSES. SO THAT WAS SORT OF THE MODEL THAT WE FOUND AND DURING THAT TIME WE WERE ASKED BY THESE YOUNG COMPANIES, ALL WHO ARE YOUNG COMPANIES. THEY'RE TRYING TO RAISE CAPITAL MONEY TO FUND THE GROWTH OF THEIR BUSINESSES. THEY WOULD ASK US. DO YOU HAVE A CAPITAL OR A FINANCIAL ARM, AN INVESTMENT ARM TO INVEST IN YOUNG COMPANIES. IN ADDITION TO THE GREAT WORK YOU'RE DOING IN THE AREA OF INNOVATION, THE POSSIBILITY FOR PILOTS AND THE POSSIBILITY FOR ONE OF OUR LARGE COMPANIES BEING A CUSTOMER OF THEIRS, AND OUR ANSWER WAS WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT. 
          SO ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, WE, UH EXPLORED CREATING A HEALTH CARE VENTURE CAPITAL FUND. AND WOUND UP ESTABLISHING ABOUT 16 MONTHS AGO, THIS AGING INNOVATION FUND THAT I THAT I REFERENCED AND WAS THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF THE AGING IN INNOVATION FUND TO PROVIDE CAPITAL TO THESE EMERGING COMPANIES TO HELP THEM PURSUE INNOVATIVE STRATEGIES IN THE HEALTH CARE FIELD. ABSOLUTELY UH, AGAIN IN MY CAREER, UH, UNANIMOUS. JUST BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE I WORK. HUMANA HAS DONE A LOT OF, UH, INVESTING IN PRIVATE BUSINESSES ALONGSIDE LARGE PRIVATE EQUITY ENTITIES, AND THEREFORE I HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE AND EXPOSURE TO THAT. AND I WOULD SAY THAT, UM LOUISVILLE HAS AN INCREDIBLE DEARTH OR NOT MUCH OF ANY, UH, ACCESS TO PRIVATE CAPITAL FOR YOUNG COMPANIES IN THE HEALTH CARE SPACE. UH, VERY, VERY, VERY LITTLE. UM, ALMOST NONE. AND NASHVILLE, JUST IN CONTRAST OR AUSTIN, TEXAS, OR BOSTON, MASS. OR SAN FRANCISCO AND OTHER PLACES IN CALIFORNIA AND DENVER COLOR HAVE HUGE AMOUNTS OF PRIVATE CAPITAL BEING DEPLOYED OUT OF THOSE COMMUNITIES, AND THEY'RE ATTRACTING AND GROWING YOUNG COMPANIES EVERY DAY. UH, IN THOSE COMMUNITIES NASHVILLE, PROBABLY THE BEST EXAMPLE IN TENNESSEE, AND, UM SO WE FELT THAT IT IT COULD BE REALLY POWERFUL AGAIN FOR THE BENEFIT OF LOUISVILLE FOR THE BENEFIT CERTAINLY OF THE COMPANIES AND THE COUNCIL. HEALTH CARE COUNCIL AND CERTAINLY YOUNG INNOVATORS IF WE EXPLORED THE CREATION OF A VENTURE CAPITAL ARM OUT OF LOUISVILLE, WHICH IS WHAT WE DID. DO YOU HAVE A ROLE WITH THE AGING INNOVATION FUND? I DO? UM I'M A SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE AGING INNOVATION FUND. BECAUSE WHEN THE BOARD, UH CONCURRED THE HEALTH CARE COUNCIL BOARD THAT, UH, THAT THIS WOULD BE A SMART THING TO DO AND A GOOD THING TO DO, UH, TO ATTRACT COMPANIES WITH CAPITAL TO INVEST IN THESE YOUNG COMPANIES. THEY ASKED ME AND A COUPLE OF OTHERS TO GO OUT AND EXPLORE THE CREATION OF THAT . AND WHAT COULD THAT LOOK LIKE? AND HOW CAN WE CREATE IT HERE IN LOUISVILLE? SO THAT'S WHAT WE DID. AND I HAVE A ROLE AS A SENIOR ADVISER TODAY, NOT JUST TO THE COUNCIL, BUT THE SECOND THING I DO IN MY I GUESS RETIREMENT. YOU'D CALL IT. UH I DON'T FEEL RETIRED ALL THE TIME. BUT UH, IS I WORK WITH AN ENTITY CALLED THE CASTELLAN GROUP. 
          WHICH IS THE, UH, FUN MANAGEMENT ENTITY THAT WE HIRED TO RUN THIS VENTURE CAPITAL FUND, WHICH IS VERY EXPERIENCED INVESTOR GROUP. UH, IN HEALTH CARE. MISTER RIMMER. UM, WE'VE HEARD A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, THE WORK THAT COUNCILMAN PITI WAS HIRED TO PERFORM FOR THE CEO COUNCIL AND THE GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS. UM ARENA . UM BUT WE'VE ALSO HEARD TESTIMONY AND SEEN FROM A STATEMENT OF WORK THAT HIS JOB RESPONSIBILITIES. UH AS A CONTRACTOR INVOLVED LEADING THE INNOVATION. THE CEO INNOVATION COMMITTEE. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH HIS WORK IN THAT CAPACITY? VERY AND WAS IT THROUGH YOUR ROLE AS A AN ADVISOR TO THE CEO COUNCIL AND AS AN ADVISOR TO THE AGING INNOVATION FUND THAT YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERACT WITH COUNCILMAN PENTTI AND HIS EFFORTS LEADING THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE? YES. HOW FREQUENTLY DID YOU INTERACT WITH COUNCILMAN PIERINI WITH RESPECT TO INNOVATION WORK? UM, ESSENTIALLY WEEKLY. AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT ? WHAT DID HIS WORK AS THE LEAD OF THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE ENTAIL? UH, I MET ANTHONY WHEN HE WAS BROUGHT ON BOARD. I BELIEVE IT WAS NOVEMBER OF 22 AND ONE OF HIS DUTIES IN ADDITION TO THE GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS AREA FOR THE COUNCIL, 
          [00:30:02]
WHICH I REALLY WASN'T INVOLVED WITH WAS LEADING AND SHARING OUR INNOVATION COUNCIL IN THE WORK AND UNDERTOOK AND, UH, AGAIN, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER. I'VE ATTENDED THE MAJORITY AND ENGAGE VERY HEAVILY IN THE INNOVATION PROCESSES OF THE COUNCIL. AND IF YOU CAN IMAGINE, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE BECAUSE IF WE'RE EXPLORING OPPORTUNITIES TO IMPROVE OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AND IMPROVE THE PATIENT OR FAMILY EXPERIENCE AND PROVIDERS, ET CETERA. IN THAT PROCESS. 
          WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS FROM YOUNG COMPANIES TO COME IN AND TRY TO FEEL FOR THOSE GAPS OR PROVIDE SOLUTIONS. AND THEN WE AS THE VENTURE CAPITAL GROUP, UH , THE AGING INNOVATION FUND. 
          WE'RE ALSO LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO INVEST IN THESE COMPANIES AND PROMOTE THEIR GROWTH, SO HAVING INTERACTION WITHIN THE INNOVATION PROCESS IS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT OF THE COUNCIL. SO I ATTEND THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE MEETING. EXCUSE ME. THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE MEETINGS, WHICH ARE MONTHLY, UH, ANTHONY WAS ASKED TO CHAIR THOSE WHEN HE JOINED THE, UH, COUNCIL'S TEAM. UM AND THEN WE HAVE A WEEKLY AGING INNOVATION FUND MEETING WITH BOTH TAMMY AND IT WAS ANTHONY AND TWO MEMBERS FROM THE CASTELAN GROUP. IN ADDITION TO MYSELF, WHERE WE TALK ABOUT THE BUSINESS AND THE ONGOING WORK OF THE VENTURE FUND AND HOW THAT'S CONNECTED TO THE COUNCIL, HOW IT'S CONNECTED TO THE INNOVATION WORK, UH SO WE'RE KIND OF VERY MUCH IN LOCKSTEP BECAUSE IF THERE'S GOOD CREATIVE YOUNG COMPANIES THAT ARE BRINGING SOLUTIONS TO HEALTH CARE AND EVEN POSSIBLY THOSE FROM LOUISVILLE THAT WE CAN POTENTIALLY ATTRACT TO LOUISVILLE. FROM AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT, WE WANNA BE VERY UN LOCKSTEP WITH THAT FROM AN INVESTMENT STANDPOINT. UM THANK YOU FOR THAT, MR RAS, I'M GOING TO, UM, UH, PUBLISHED TO YOU AND TO THE OTHER THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT THE STATEMENT OF WORK THAT COUNCILMAN PAGE HAD WITH THE CEO COUNCIL. WE'RE GONNA TRY TO BRING IT UP HERE. I I'LL REPRESENT TO YOU THAT THIS IS ALREADY BEEN ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE. I'LL REPRESENT TO YOU THAT THIS IS, UH, HIS STATEMENT OF WORK, YOU SEE, CAN YOU SEE THAT ON YOUR SCREEN? I COULD HOLD ON. JUST SO, MR SMITH, THE CLERK IS BRINGING IT UP. SO I CAN TV. DO YOU MIND SHOWING THE SCREEN FOR THE ITEM THAT WE'RE SHOWING ON THE SCREEN FROM THE PRISONER'S DESK, PLEASE. IT SHOULD BE GOOD NOW. CAN YOU SEE THAT? I CAN SEE IT, BUT IT'S SMALL PRINT AND BLURRY. IT CAN BE. I DON'T THINK YOU CAN BRING IT UP AND LARGE IT POSSIBLY WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN ENLARGE IT A LITTLE BIT. IS IT ANY BETTER NOW? UH, YES, IT MIGHT TAKE ME A MOMENT TO READ IT. BUT, YES, I THINK I COULD SEE IT. WELL, I'LL REPRESENT TO YOU AGAIN. I'M SORRY, SONIA. I'LL REPRESENT TO YOU THAT THE STATEMENT OF WORK IS DATED DECEMBER 1ST 2022 AND MIKE IF YOU SCROLL DOWN TO THE END. ON THE SIGNATURE PAGE. IT'S DATED YOUR DAY DATED IT. 
          DECEMBER 1ST 2022 AND COUNCILMAN P ARGENTI DATED A 20. I'M SORRY. DECEMBER 1ST 2022 UM YOU WOULD. 
          WOULD YOU HAVE MET WITH COUNCILMAN P ARGENTI AFTER HE HAD BEEN HIRED BY THE CEO COUNCIL? CORRECT I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN ANY OF THE HIRING PROCESS, BUT I DEFINITELY MET WITH HIM. YEAH, I REMEMBER IT WAS. I THINK IT WAS HIS FIRST WEEK FOR AN INTRODUCTION, AND WE SPENT TIME TALKING ABOUT HIS BACKGROUND. MY BACKGROUND AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING AS A COUNCIL AND INTRODUCE THE FUND AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. SO YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU MAY HAVE MET WITH HIM IN NOVEMBER. BUT DOES THIS REFRESH YOUR MEMORY IF YOU MET WITH HIM AFTER DECEMBER, 1ST YEAH, I DON'T THINK I DON'T HAVE A RECOLLECTION OF MEETING WITH HIM PRIOR TO HIM, STARTING WITH THE COUNCIL. I DID NOT KNOW ANTHONY BEFORE. I THINK I MET HIM RIGHT WHEN HE WAS HIRED AND STARTED, OK? AND IF WE CAN SCROLL UP MIKE AND IT HOPEFULLY YOU CAN SEE THIS, TOO. THE PAGE TWO. I BELIEVE IT IS. THERE IT IS. SO CAN YOU SEE THAT MR RIMMER ON YOUR SCREEN? CAN OK. 
          UH, DO YOU SEE THAT THIRD SORT OF ARROW BULLET POINT LEAD THE CEO INNOVATION COMMITTEE. I DO AND SAYS, ORGANIZE THE TEAM. AND IT SAYS ORGANIZE THE TEAM INCREASE THE PIPELINE OF INNOVATIVE IDEAS AND STRATEGIES TO SUPPORT BOARD OBJECTIVES. DO YOU SEE THAT NEW AND THEN RIGHT UNDER THAT, IT SAYS, CREATE ADDITIONAL STREAMS TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF INNOVATIVE IDEAS AND COMPANIES AVAILABLE FOR PILOT PROGRAMS. DO IS THAT REFER BACK TO SOME OF YOUR DESCRIPTION OF WHAT? THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE WAS DOING AND WHAT YOU SAW. COUNCILMAN PIERINI DO IN HIS WORK FOR THE LEADING THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE. THERE'S NO QUESTION HE WAS SUPERB. IT SAID. 
          ALSO RIGHT UNDER THAT, IT SAYS OUTCOMES MAY INCLUDE INCREASING THE INNOVATOR INNOVATION PIPELINE FOR BOARD COMPANIES. DO YOU SEE THAT? YES AND THEN INCREASING INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE CEO C FUND DO DO YOU SEE THAT? DID I READ THAT CORRECTLY? LET'S TAKE THOSE 
          [00:35:05]
ONE BY ONE. IN YOUR EXPERIENCE. AND FROM WHAT YOU SAW. WAS COUNCILMAN PAGE GINI. EFFECTIVE AND SUCCESSFUL IN INCREASING THE INNOVATION PIPELINE FOR BOARD COMPANIES. YOU HAVE NO QUESTION. 
          23 WAS A GREAT YEAR FOR US IN THAT AREA. COULD YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT? HOW COUNCILMAN P ARGENTI CONTRIBUTED TO THE INNOVATION TO THE INCREASING OF THE INNOVATION PIPELINE. AND MAYBE JUST START OFF BY DESCRIBING. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO INCREASE THE INNOVATION PIPELINE? WELL WHEN YOU WHEN YOU GO IN AND TALK TO OUR COMPANIES, UH, THE HEALTHCARE CO COMPANIES ABOUT THE CHALLENGES. SO, FOR INSTANCE , IN 2023, THERE WAS AN INTEREST IN SORT OF HOW DO WE INCREASE OPERATIONAL EFFICIENCY AND INTEROPERABILITY? THOSE ARE FANCY WORDS, BUT IT WAS AROUND. UH WHAT? WHAT CAN WE DO TO FILL GAPS IN THESE CARE PROCESSES AND THE TRANSFER BACK AND FORTH OF INFORMATION AND DATA AND IN THE PROCESS OF CARING FOR PATIENTS? HOW CAN YOU MAKE THAT MORE EFFICIENT? BENEFIT THE PATIENT, THE FAMILIES, THE COMPANIES, ET CETERA, BECAUSE THERE'S SUCH AN ONGOING SHORTAGE OF WORKERS, AND THERE'S HUGE STRESS ON WORKFORCE AND HEALTH CARE ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY TODAY, UH, SO THAT WAS SORT OF THE OVERRIDING TOPIC. AND WE ISSUED. UM UM, WORK IN EARLY 2023 AND ANTHONY LED THIS AROUND EXPLORING WHAT THAT TOPIC MEANT AND WHERE THE BIGGEST PAIN POINTS WERE WITH EACH OF OUR HEALTH CARE COUNCIL COMPANIES. AND WE CALL THEM DISCOVERY LABS, SO WE WOULD HAVE DISCUSSIONS WITH EACH OF THESE COMPANIES AROUND. WHAT ARE THESE GREATEST AREA OF PAIN POINTS IN YOUR BUSINESSES AS YOU CARE FOR PATIENTS AND DEAL WITH PATIENTS IN YOUR IN YOUR BUSINESS AND WHATEVER WAY YOU DO. UH, WE SPENT ROUGHLY THE FIRST HALF OF 2023 EXPLORING THAT. AND THEN WE GO OUT FOR CALLS FOR INNOVATION. WHERE WE PUT THAT OUT ACROSS NETWORKS THAT WE'RE AWARE OF, AND ENTITIES THAT WE'RE AWARE OF , AND ASK FOR INNOVATORS THAT ARE DOING WORK IN THIS AREA, AND THERE'S ALL SORTS OF WAYS YOU REACH THEM, UH, TO SEE WHO MIGHT BE DOING WORK IN THIS AREA AND WE RUN A CONTEST OF WHICH IS SAY WHO'S INTERESTED IN COMING IN AND SHOWING THE WORK THEY'RE DOING. IN COMPETING TO SEE WHO HAS SOME OF THE MORE CREATIVE IDEAS AROUND SOME OF THESE DIFFERENT TOPICS. SO THAT'S THE OVERARCHING PROCESS THAT WE WERE WORKING ON, AND ANTHONY LED THAT AS THE CHAIR OF THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE EFFORTS OF, UH THE COUNCIL AND IT RESULTS IN CULMINATES IN A CONFERENCE. WE CALL IT OPTIMIZE. IT'S IN SEPTEMBER THE FALL AND IT WAS IN SE. I THINK IT WAS SEPTEMBER OF THIS YEAR OF 2023 WHERE WE BRING WHAT WE CALL SEMIFINALISTS WHICH WERE 16 COMPANIES. UM I'M SORRY SEMIFINALIST WERE EIGHT COMPANIES AND THEN WE PICK A WINNER, SO TO SPEAK WITH JUDGES FROM WITHIN OUR HEALTH CARE BUSINESSES AROUND THESE INNOVATORS, AND THIS IS THE FOURTH TIME WE'VE DONE THIS, UH, WITH THE COUNCIL'S HISTORY IN 2023 COVID WAS TOUGH. WE HAD TO DO IT VIRTUALLY THINGS LIKE THAT . BUT WE BRING. WE BROUGHT 500 PEOPLE APPROXIMATELY INTO THE CONVENTION CENTER IN DOWNTOWN LOUISVILLE. AND THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE INVESTORS THAT WANT TO INVEST IN YOUNG COMPANIES. THESE ARE CERTAINLY A LARGE NUMBER OF YOUNG COMPANIES INNOVATORS THAT COME IN AND THEN THERE'S COMPANY REPRESENTATIVES FROM OUR COUNCIL COMPANIES, AS WELL AS OTHER COMPANIES HAVE COME TO THESE CONFERENCES LOOKING TO MEET THESE INNOVATORS UNDERSTAND WHAT'S WHAT MIGHT HELP THEM IN THEIR BUSINESSES CARING FOR PATIENTS AND FAMILIES. SO THERE BRINGS THESE EIGHT SEMIFINALISTS SELECTED. AND THEN THERE'S A JUDGING PROCESS TO DECLARE A WINNER. SO TO SPEAK. UH, REALLY, THEY'RE ALL WINNERS. BECAUSE IF YOU MADE IT TO THAT POINT, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING PRETTY INTERESTING AND GOOD, SO THAT'S A IT'S. IT'S SERVES TWO PURPOSES . IT HELPS US IDENTIFY WHO OUR INNOVATORS DOING GOOD, INTERESTING WORK THAT MIGHT HELP OUR COMPANIES AND THE PATIENTS THEY SERVE. AND SECONDLY, THAT CONFERENCE SERVES TO PROMOTE LOUISVILLE AS A OF AGING INNOVATION AND HEALTH CARE, AND IT'S EXCEPTIONALLY WELL DONE. I WOUL ENCOURAGE ANYBODY TO ATTEND THAT, IF THEY CAN. IT'S A REALLY WONDERFUL CONFERENCE. THAT'S VERY HIGH PROFILE AND GAINING AND NOTORIETY WITHIN THE HEALTH CARE. THANK YOU FOR THAT, UH, DESCRIPTION, WOULD YOU JUST, UM MAYBE JUST DESCRIBE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COURT HERE. SO WHAT WAS COUNCILMAN PI ARGENTI DOING WITH RESPECT TO THESE DISCOVERY LABS AND THE THIS COMP ? UH, THIS THE OPTIMIZED CONFERENCE THAT IDENTIFIED THESE , UM INNOVATIVE COMPANIES IN THE HEALTH CARE FIELD. HE WAS THE POINT PERSON THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE AS THE CHAIR OF OUR INNOVATION COMMITTEE AND LEADING THE INNOVATION EFFORTS WITHIN THE HEALTH CARE COUNCIL FOR MEETING WITH EACH OF THE COUNCIL COMPANIES FACILITATING THESE, UH, DISCOVERY LABS AGAIN WHAT WE CALL THEM ON WHAT ARE THEIR GREATEST, UH, AREAS OF PAIN OR OPPORTUNITIES THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE EXPLORED WITH YOUNG INNOVATORS. IT MIGHT BE BRINGING SOLUTIONS TO THOSE AREAS. SO THAT WAS THE WORK OF SORT OF 678 MONTHS. IT'S A LOT OF WORK TO DO 
          [00:40:02]
THAT, ALONG WITH INPUT FROM OTHERS ON THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE. CERTAINLY THE COMPANY REPRESENTATIVES ARE ENGAGED IN THAT PROCESS, BUT HE'S SORT OF THE HUB TO THAT. THAT ROLE IS THE HUB TO THAT WORK, AND THEN HE BASICALLY FACILITATED AN EMCEED THE CONFERENCE THE OPTIMIZED CONFERENCE, WHICH SO HE'S ATTRACTING THE SEMIFINALISTS, THESE EIGHT COMPANIES TO COME IN. HE'S KIND OF WOOING THEM IN TO SAY, LOOK, YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO SHOWCASE YOUR YOUNG COMPANY IN FRONT OF THIS BIG CONFERENCE, WHICH ARE BOTH OUR HEALTHCARE COMPANIES. 
          INVESTORS THERE'S A FAIR NUMBER OF INVESTORS IN HEALTH CARE THAT COME TO THAT CONFERENCE THAT ARE POTENTIAL. INTERESTED IN INVESTING IN YOUNG COMPANIES. FOR INSTANCE, WE WERE THERE WITH OUR AGING INNOVATION FUND HAT MET WITH PROBABLY 20 COMPANIES DURING THOSE TWO DAYS, UM AND ANTHONY SORT OF CHAIRED AND FACILITATED THAT WHOLE CONFERENCE. FROM SOUP TO NUTS. 
          AND THE WORK THAT HE WAS DOING WITH THE DISCOVERY LABS AND THE OTHER INNOVATION WORK. UH, WOULD YOU SAY THAT THIS THESE RESPONSIBILITIES ARE RESPONSIBILITIES THAT JUST ANYONE OFF THE STREET COULD PERFORM. UH, NO. UH LIKE ANY ROLE, UM IN LEADERSHIP, OR, UH, IN ANY GIVEN INDUSTRY OR DISCIPLINE, UM, I THINK TO LEAD THIS KIND OF GROUP, WHICH ARE THE SENIOR PEOPLE WITHIN OUR HEALTH CARE COMPANIES IN LOUISVILLE. THAT MAKE UP THIS INNOVATION COMMITTEE THEIR DOCTORS, THERE'S NURSES. THERE'S ADMINISTRATORS AS I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY, IT'S A WIDE AND DIVERSE AUDIENCE OF PEOPLE IN THE HEALTH CARE LANDSCAPE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE AND PERSPECTIVE IN HEALTH CARE WORLD OR YOU JUST WOULDN'T REALLY BE VIEWED AS CREDIBLE WITH THAT GROUP. AND THEN THAT SORT OF FROM A BACKGROUND AND SORT OF PREPARATION STANDPOINT. IN ADDITION, YOU NEED STRONG LEADERSHIP. SORT OF TRAITS BECAUSE I CAN PROMISE YOU THESE ARE ALL VOLUNTEERS COMING TOGETHER IN THIS HEALTH CARE COUNCIL INNOVATION GROUP. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE STRONG PERSONALITIES, MANY OF THEM THEY'RE VERY EXPERIENCED PEOPLE AT THAT TABLE. I SOMETIMES LIKEN IT TO TRYING TO SORT OF CORRAL MONKEYS INTO A YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST IT'S TOUGH WORK TO DO, BECAUSE DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. BUT I'VE BEEN AMAZED AT HOW ENGAGED ORGANIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE BEEN, BUT THAT STILL REQUIRES A STRONG LEADER TO KIND OF ORGANIZE THE EFFORTS OF THAT GROUP AND MOVE IT ALONG. OTHERWISE YOU WOULD LOSE INTEREST ON THE PART OF THOSE PARTICIPATING AND GIVING THEIR TIME. SO THAT ROLE IS BOTH A LEADERSHIP ROLE THAT REQUIRES STRONG ORGANIZATIONAL, ADMINISTRATIVE SORT OF GIVE AND TAKE. UH, SKILLS, MORE GENERAL LEADERSHIP SKILLS, BUT YOU MUST HAVE HEALTH CARE, BACKGROUND AND ORIENTATION. OR YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND A LOT OF THINGS BEING TALKED ABOUT IN THAT. IN THAT GROUP, AND SO FROM WHAT YOU SAW OF COUNCIL, PINI'S WORK LEADING THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE, DID HE POSSESS THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTISE TO EFFECTIVELY LEAD THAT COMMITTEE? THERE'S NO QUESTION IN FACT. WHEN HE STEPPED ASIDE IN NOVEMBER OF THIS YEAR, AS I RECALL, UH THERE WAS A GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT AMONG THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS. THINGS. LE DID HE HAVE THE ORGANIZATIONAL SKILLS TO LEAD THE COMMITTEE FROM WHAT YOU SAW? YES AND DID HE HAVE THE LEADERSHIP SKILLS TO LEAD THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE FROM WHAT YOU SAW? NO QUESTION. YEAH. YOU MAY HAVE. YOU MAY HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT IN TALKING ABOUT THE OVERALL. UH OBJECTIVES OF LEADING THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE. BUT I DO WANT TO TALK FOR A MINUTE ABOUT THIS. WHAT THIS. THE SECOND OUTCOME MAY INCLUDE INCREASING THE INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE CEO FUND. DO YOU THINK THAT THATHE CEO C FUND IS A REFERENCE TO THIS AGING INNOTION FUND? YES, OK. AND COD YOU EX FROM WHAT YOUAW WA COUILN ETI ONOW SO? WELL AGAIN. IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE IS DOING THE WORK OF HERE ARE A PAIN POINTS. HERE ARE THE OPPORTUNITIES WE'D LIKE TO EXPLORE AND IMPROVE. AND IF WE COULD FIND YOUNG INNOVATORS TO THAT ARE WORKING ON THOSE PROBLEMS THAT MIGHT BRING SOLUTIONS THAT SOMETIMES THEY ARE IN THE FORM OF A TECHNOLOGY. SOMETIMES THEY'RE IN THE FORM OF A SERVICE DELIVERY THAT A COMPANY PERFORMS. AND USUALLY IT'S BOTH. UM THEN WE WANT TO KNOW WHO THOSE COMPANIES ARE AND MEET THEM BOTH FROM THE STANDPOINT OF ASSESSING AND VALIDATING THEM IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING FROM THE LARGE THESE PERSPECTIVE, AND I CAN GIVE A TANGIBLE EXAMPLE. THE IF IT'S HELPFUL TO YOU, UH, OF HOW THAT PLAYED OUT IN 2023 THAT'S STILL UNDER WAY RIGHT NOW. SURE, PLEASE DO. THE WINNER OF THE INNOVATION. UH UH. UH, COMPETITION THIS YEAR IN THE FALL WAS A COMPANY CALLED MOMO MEDICAL, WHICH IS BELIEVE IT OR NOT EUROPEAN BASED, UM, AND THEY HAVE A US HEADQUARTERS IN MOMO IS A SMALL BUT FAST GROWING, UH, YOUNG, INNOVATIVE COMPANY AND THEY WORK IN THE AREA OF AND BEAR WITH ME HERE. I'M GONNA TRY NOT TO DROWN PEOPLE IN DETAILS, BUT MOMMA MEDICAL WORKS IN THE AREA OF, UH SENIOR LIVING CENTER . SO THINK OF NURSING HOMES. THINK OF ASSISTED LIVING TYPE ENVIRONMENTS. UH, EVEN INDEPENDENT LIVING FOR SENIORS AND CONGREGANT LIVING. UH UH, SETTINGS ONE OF THE BIGGEST 
          [00:45:04]
CHALLENGES THAT THAT THOSE COMMUNITIES HAVE IS MONITORING WHEN PATIENTS ARE UP OR TRYING TO GET UP OUT OF BED. AND FOR WHAT REASON? WHAT ARE THEY DOING ? AND TRYING TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NOT TOO YOU KNOW MORE INHERENT RISK? A LOT OF FALLS AND A LOT OF BAD THINGS HAPPEN WHEN SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE SENIORS ARE GETTING UP OUT OF BED OR OUT OF WHEREVER THEY ARE, AND THE STAFF DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT IT TO GIVE THEM PROPER ASSISTANCE. UH AND AGAIN, SOME PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO THAT, IN THEIR OWN LIFE. THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE, AND MOMO MEDICAL HAS A TECHNOLOGY THAT A DETECTION SYSTEM THAT ESSENTIALLY INTEGRATES UNDER THE MATTRESS AND COULD DETECT MOVEMENT WHEN THE PATIENTS THE SENIORS ARE GETTING UP AND MOVING, OR EVEN JUST TURNING OVER, AND USUALLY THAT'S AN INDICATION OF SOMETHING HAPPENING WITH THE SENIOR, AND SOMETIMES THERE'S DEMENTIA INVOLVED. SOMETIMES THERE'S AN INCONTINENCE ISSUE WHERE THEY MAY HAVE A, UH A URINATION OR SOMETHING ELSE OCCURRING AND THE PROBLEM IS, THE STAFF HAS PULLED IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS AND THOSE KINDS OF ORGANIZATIONS TRYING TO TAKE CARE OF THESE PATIENTS. AND IF YOU CAN HELP MAKE MORE PRECISE. WHEN SENIOR IS MOVING OR DOING CERTAIN THINGS. UH IT'S A GOOD INDICATION THAT THE STAFF NEEDS TO RESPOND TO THAT TO GET INTO SUPPORT TO HELP THE PATIENT AND WHATEVER MEANS THEY NEED. MOMMA MEDICAL HAS THE TECHNOLOGY THAT PROVIDES THAT DETECTION AND PROVIDES REPORTING ANALYTICS AND INFORMATION TO THE STAFF IN A WAY THAT THEY CAN'T THEY DON'T DO TODAY. PATIENTS ARE JUST IN. YOU KNOW, UH, I CALL THEM DUMB OR ANALOG MATTRESSES, MEANING THERE'S NO DETECTION TO HELP NOTIFY THE STAFF THAT SOMETHING IS GOING ON WITH THE PATIENT. AND OFTEN BAD THINGS HAPPEN WHEN THE STAFF DOESN'T KNOW THAT BECAUSE THE PATIENT CAN HURT THEMSELVES IF YOU'RE NOT CAREFUL. SO UH, MOMO HAS THIS REALLY NOVEL TECHNOLOGY THAT SENSES MOVEMENT AMONG THE SENIORS AND TRIGGER STAFF ABOUT THAT IN A WAY THAT'S HELPFUL TO THE STAFF TO FRANKLY MAKE THEM MORE EFFICIENT BUT ALSO PROVIDE FOR IMPROVED SAFETY AND CARE TO THE PATIENT. SO THEY ARE UNDERWAY WITH A PILOT RIGHT NOW WITH ONE OF OUR, UM UH COMPANIES , UH, IN THE COUNCIL. THEY ALSO BEEN WORKING THROUGH A PIPELINE FOR INVESTMENT CONSIDERATION BY OUR INVESTMENT FUND, THE AGING INNOVATION FUND. AND THERE'S EVEN DISCUSSION. I GOT TO BE CAREFUL HOW FAR I GO WITH THIS, BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM RELOCATE THEIR COMPANY FROM WHERE IT IS THEIR US BASED NOW TO LOUISVILLE, AND THEY'RE NOT OPPOSED TO. THAT IS WHAT I WOULD SAY SO I CAN'T GO ANY FURTHER BECAUSE IT'S. WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF THESE DISCUSSIONS WITH THIS COMPANY, BUT WE'RE EVALUATING THEM RIGHT NOW FOR AN INVESTMENT FROM OUR C THEY'RE IN A PILOT WITH ONE OF THE COUNCIL COMPANIES EVALUATING THE TECHNOLOGY. THEY'VE SEEN SIGNIFICANT GROWTH IN EUROPE. THEY ARE VERY, VERY FAST GROWING SCANDINAVIAN. AND THEY HAVE A REAL INTEREST IN THE CEO COUNCIL BECAUSE THEY SEE IT AS SUCH A NEAT OPPORTUNITY TO COME INTO A HEALTH CARE ECOSYSTEM THAT'S BASED IN LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY, AND SEE THEIR PRODUCT BE RECE RECEIVED WELL AND GROW AND POTENTIALLY BE INVESTED IN BY OUR FUND, SO THAT'S A GOOD AND THEY WERE THE WINNER OF THE OPTIMIZED CONFERENCE, UH, IN SEPTEMBER OF 23, AND SO COULD YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COURT? WHAT ROLE COUNCIL THE ARGENTI PLAYED IN HELPING BRING THAT OPPORTUNITY TO THE FUND. YEAH WHEN? WHEN WHEN WE STARTED THIS EXPLORATION ON OPERATIONAL EFFICIENCY AND INTEROPERABILITY, WHICH IS WHERE YOU CONNECT SYSTEMS AND MAKE SURE INFORMATION IS CONNECTED BETWEEN DIFFERENT HEALTH SYSTEMS AND ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THAT WAS OUR CALL FOR INNOVATION IN THE FIRST QUARTER OR SO OF 2023. A WHOLE LOT OF COMPANIES RESPONDED TO THAT THAT ARE YOUNG INNOVATORS DOING THINGS THAT SAID, HEY, WE'RE WORKING ON THESE AREAS. YOU HAVE TO TAKE A BIG NUMBER OF COMPANIES I'M GONNA SAY WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF AROUND 80 TO 100 COMPANIES. UM YOU HAVE TO WINNOW THAT DOWN BY EVALUATING THEM TO SEE WHICH TEAM TO BE DOING THE BEST, SMARTEST THINGS IN THAT AREA, BUT WE THEN COME UP WHAT WE CALL 16 SORT OF SEMIFINALIST. WE THEN GET TO EIGHT FINALISTS, AND THEN WE HAVE A NOTED WINNER IN SEPTEMBER. AS I MENTIONED AT THE CONFERENCE, ANTHONY FACILITATED AND DROVE AND DIRECTED. ALL OF THAT WORK TO INITIALLY RECEIVE ALL THESE APPLICATIONS. EVALUATE THEM IN PARTNERSHIP WITH OUR HEALTH CARE COUNCIL COMPANIES, UM AND THEN TAKE IT DOWN TO THE FINAL 16. THERE WAS A VOTING AND EVALUATION PROCESS THAT THE EXPERTS ON THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE PARTICIPATE IN AND THEN YOU GET TO THE SEMIFINALIST, AND THEN YOU BROUGHT THEM TO LOUISVILLE. FALL AND YOU HAVE A CONFERENCE WHICH AGAIN YOU'RE PROMOTING THEM AS WELL AS EVALUATING AND AWARDING A WINNER AND THE WINNER GETS THIS PILOT, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TO TRY THEIR PRODUCTS IN ONE OF OUR COMPANY SETTINGS. AND UM, AND IN OUR CASE, WE ALSO EVALUATING THIS PARTICULAR COMPANY FOR INVESTMENT FROM OUR FUND, WHICH THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO. FROM WHAT YOU SAW IN YOUR EXPERIENCE. UM WITH THAT WAS THE WORK THAT COUNCILMAN PITI DID. LEADING THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE THAT REQUIRE A SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT OF TIME ON HIS PART TO FULFILL THOSE OBLIGATIONS. OH, YES. AS I MENTIONED BOTH JUST THE SHEER VOLUME OF THINGS YOU'RE DOING FOR SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS LAST 
          [00:50:04]
YEAR AS ALL THOSE APPLICATIONS BECAME BEGAN TO MANIFEST THEMSELVES. YOU HAVE TO PUT PROCESSES IN PLACE TO REVIEW THEM, EVALUATE AND VALIDATE WHO SEEMED TO BE THE BEST BECAUSE WE CAN'T BRING AND REALLY EVERYBODY LOOK AT 80 COMPANIES. IT'S TOO MANY. UM YOU GOT TO WINNOW IT DOWN TO WHAT WE THINK TO BE THE BEST OF THE BEST IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS FROM WITHIN THE WONDERFUL HEALTH CARE COMPANIES THAT EXIST IN LOUISVILLE. THERE'S A TON OF EXPERTISE IN THESE LITTLE HEALTHCARE COMPANIES A TON OF EXPERTISE IN THESE AREAS AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY. IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THE WORK THAT COUNCILMAN PINI DID LEADING THE INNOVATION COMMITTEE MADE SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTIONS TO INCREASING THE PIPELINE OF INNOVATIVE IDEAS AND INCREASING OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE AGING INNOVATION FUND? I COMPLETELY BELIEVE THAT MR RIMMER, UM, A MOMENT AGO. YOU YOU, UH, DISCUSSED YOUR, UH, HISTORY AND YOUR ROLE WITH THE CEO COUNCIL AND YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU WERE INITIALLY BROUGHT ON BOARD TO LEAD IT AND THEN A CERTAIN POINT IN 2019 OR SO, UH, THE CEO COUNCIL HIRED, UH, MISS YORK DAY AS IT'S, UH, PRESIDENT AND CEO. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT TESTIMONY I DO. UH AND WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU HAVE WORKED FAIRLY CLOSELY WITH MISS YORK DAY? UH, IN HER ROLE AS PRESIDENT CEO OF THE CEO COUNCIL. I HAVE AH, CAN YOU EXPLAIN? JUST GENERALLY HOW YOU HAVE WORKED AND INTERACTED WITH HER. WELL UH, INITIALLY, UH, AS I MENTIONED I, I I'M SORT OF CREDITED WITH FOUNDING THIS HEALTH CARE COUNCIL. I DON'T ALWAYS LIKE TO ACCEPT THAT CREDIT BECAUSE IT WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT CAME TOGETHER TO DO. THIS WASN'T JUST ME. BUT SOMEHOW I'M SINGLED OUT AS THE FIGUREHEAD OF THAT WHICH I'M PROUD OF. UM IT BECAME VERY CLEAR TO US VERY QUICKLY THAT WE MEETING MYSELF AND SEVERAL OTHERS COULDN'T DO THIS. IN ADDITION TO OUR FULL TIME JOBS, UH, WITH THE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION AND OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAD IN LOUISVILLE TO PROMOTE OUR COMMUNITY AND HEALTH CARE, ET CETERA, SO WE NEEDED TO BRING IN SOMEONE TO LEAD THIS EFFORT FULL TIME. AND THAT WAS WHERE YOU KNOW WE WENT OUT AND LOOKED FOR DIFFERENT CANDIDATES AND ULTIMATELY LANDED ON TAMMY AND, UH, SO WHEN SHE CAME IN MY INITIAL WORK WITH HER FOR HER FIRST, PROBABLY 18 MONTHS. WAS AROUND MORE ORGANIZATION HISTORY CONTEXT, GETTING THINGS ESTABLISHED AND TRYING TO CHART A COURSE FORWARD FOR THE COUNCIL THAT WAS ORGANIZED AND IN SUPPORT OF WHAT THE BOARD WANTED TO DO. UM MORE RECENTLY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, I'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN THE AREAS OF THE INNOVATION, EFFORTS OF THE COUNCIL AND HOW THAT WORKS WITH THIS HEALTH CARE VENTURE CAPITAL FUND THAT WE, UH STARTED AGAIN. 
          IT'S BEEN OPEN ABOUT 16 MONTHS, BUT IT IT REALLY STARTED ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. THE DISCUSSION THE EXPLORATION AND PUTTING IT TOGETHER, SO I SPENT A LOT OF TIME. THE LAST 0 18 TO 2024 MONTHS ON THE CAPITOL, THE VENTURE FUND SIDE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING. SO HOW MANY YEARS HAVE YOU WORKED WITH, UH, M ORE. I THINK IT'S ABOUT FOUR ISH. MAYBE JUST OVER FOUR. AND I DID. I DID NOT KNOW TAMMY EITHER. BEFORE SHE CAME TO THE CAMP. I MET HER MAYBE IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW HER, UH, BEFORE SHE CAME TO THE COUNCIL. NOW THE CHARGING COMMITTEE HAS ALLEGED THAT MISS YORK DAY OFFERED A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY TO COUNCIL IN PAGNI TO INFLUENCE HIM TO SUPPORT A $40 MILLION GRANT FOR AN ENTITY KNOWN AS THE HEALTH CARE WORKFORCE INNOVATION COALITION. IN FACT, COUNSEL FOR THE CHARGING COMMITTEE HAS EVEN ARGUED THAT THAT OFFER COULD BE CONSIDERED A STRAIGHT UP BRIBE AS A RESULT OF THE FOUR YEARS APPROXIMATELY THAT YOU HAVE KNOWN AND WORKED WITH MISS YOUR DAY. HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO FORM AN OPINION AS TO HER CHARACTER FOR TRUTHFULNESS? YES. AND DO YOU CONSIDER MISS YORK DAY TO BE A TRUTHFUL AND HONEST PERSON. 
          I'M SORRY, BROOK AND YOU CUT OUT THERE. I'M SORRY. DO YOU CONSIDER MISS YORK DAY TO BE A TRUTHFUL AND HONEST PERSON? I DO . AND DO YOU THINK THAT SHE WOULD EVER BE INVOLVED IN A SCHEME TO BRIBE A PUBLIC OFFICIAL? NO. THANK YOU. NO MORE QUESTIONS. MR WICKER. 
          GOOD MORNING, MR REIMERS. CAN YOU HEAR ME? WELL, I CAN SO YOU WERE ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF THE CEO C BACK IN 17 AND 2018. CORRECT. AND YOU, UM. YOU WERE IN CURRENTLY ARE A SENIOR ADVISOR, BOTH TO THE CEO AND TO THE INNOVATION FUND. IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT, AND YOU HAD A LONG HISTORY IN HEALTH CARE IN LOUISVILLE AND ELSEWHERE BEFORE TAKING THOSE POSITIONS. 
          IS THAT RIGHT? YES, SIR. UH BUT YOU DIDN'T KNOW MR PAGE BEFORE HE WAS HIRED. UH I DON'T BELIEVE I'VE EVER MET HIM. I DON'T REMEMBER MEETING HIM. NO. UM DID YOU INTERVIEW HIM BEFORE HE WAS HIRED? NO. DID YOU REVIEW HIS WORK PRODUCT? DO THAT REVIEW HIS WORK PRODUCT BEFORE HIRING 
          [00:55:06]
BEFORE HIRING? NO UM, DID YOU INTERVIEW ANYONE ELSE FOR THE POSITION? I DID NOT WAS THAT POSITION EVER ADVERTISED FOR ANYONE ELSE TO TAKE IT? I DON'T. I DON'T HAVE AWARENESS OF THAT. 
          BUT I WASN'T AGAIN. I WASN'T THE HIRING PERSON OR INVOLVED DIRECTLY IN THIS. SO DID YOU KNOW THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE HIRED BEFORE HE WAS ACTUALLY HIRED? UH NO. TAMMY MENTIONED TO ME THAT SHE HAD MET A PERSON THAT SHE LIKED A LOT AND THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF IT. OKAY? BUT YOU WEREN'T PART OF THE DECISION TO BRING HIM ON BOARD FOR YOU, SIR. NOT FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE IN WORKING FOR HEALTH CARE IN HEALTH CARE FOR LONG CAREER. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOMEONE ELSE WHO COULD DO THE JOB? WHO WASN'T A MEMBER OF METRO COUNCIL? I'M SURE THERE COULD BE SURE. NOW. THERE WERE YOU SAID THERE ARE 13 COMPANIES IN THE CEO C. TODAY YES, OK, AND , UH, WE HAD ANOTHER HEARING ON THIS ISSUE LAST FALL, AND THERE WERE 15 COMPANIES AT THAT TIME. 
          CORRECT AND HAVE TWO LEFT THE ORGANIZATION RECENTLY. CORRECT. WHO WERE THOSE? LHC GROUP, WHICH , UH, IS OUT OF LOUISIANA. IT WAS PURCHASED, UH, SOMETHING OVER A YEAR AGO BY OPTUM, WHICH IS A UNITED HEALTHCARE COMPANY. AND THEN, UH, ATRIA, WHICH IS A SENIOR LIVING OPERATOR BASED IN LOUISVILLE. UH BOTH DID NOT MAKE DID NOT RENEW THEIR MEMBERSHIP, WHICH IS A PAID MEMBERSHIP FOR 2024. AND AS MR TINI STILL WORKING FOR THE CEO C NO. THAT'S ALL MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU, MR WICKER, MR SMITH, AND YOU REDIRECT NO CHAIR. ANY QUESTIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT. COUNCILWOMAN PERISH RIGHT? UM, GOOD MORNING. I JUST HAD A COUPLE OF CLARIFYING QUESTIONS. AND YOU'VE ANSWERED SOME, UM, RECENTLY. UM WHEN WAS WHEN DID UH MR P ARGENTINA'S EMPLOYMENT IN MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THERE WAS A CONTRACT. HE WAS A CONTRACTED EMPLOYEE, I GUESS OR CONTRACTED PROFESSIONAL THAT WORKED FROM NOVEMBER OF 22 THROUGH NOVEMBER OF 20. MAYBE IT WAS DECEMBER. 1ST I THINK OF 2022 TO THE END OF NOVEMBER. 2023 IT WAS A ONE YEAR CONTRACT, AND IT WAS NOT ONE THAT YOU ALL EXTEND FOR ANY REASON OR THAT WAS JUST SET TO BE A ONE YEAR CONTRACT. UH, I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THE DECISION AROUND THAT PERSONALLY, I JUST KNEW THAT I WAS TOLD THAT ANTHONY, UH, DECIDED NOT TO RENEW THE CONTRACT AS OF THE END OF NOVEMBER. 2023 OK? THANK YOU. THAT'S IT. THANK YOU, COUNCILWOMAN COUNCILWOMAN RUI. 
          THANK YOU. UH, YOU SAID THAT MISS DO DAY SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER ABOUT ART HAVING AN A GOOD CANDIDATE. ANY IDEA ABOUT WHAT TIME YOU STARTED HEARING? TALK ABOUT HIM. UH, SHE TOLD ME SHE THE FIRST TIME I HEARD ANTHONY'S NAMES I DID NOT KNOW ANTHONY DID NOT EVER MEET HIM UNTIL HE WAS ACTUALLY HIRED. BUT UH, I THINK A YEAR BEFORE, UH LIKE IN FALL OF 22. UM AT THE OPTIMIZED CONFERENCE, AS I MENTIONED EACH FALL, WE HAVE THIS CONFERENCE SHOWCASING THE GOOD WORK OCCURRING WITH OUR HEALTH CARE COUNCIL AND THE INNOVATION STUFF. UM HE ATTENDED. I'M ASSUMING BECAUSE HE WAS PART OF CITY COUNCIL. OR MAYBE HE'S ALSO A LONG TIME HEALTH CARE EXECUTIVE IN HIS OWN CAREER, UM, AND SHE MENTIONED SHE HAD MET SOMEONE THAT WAS NETWORKING FOR THE NEXT CAREER OPPORTUNITY, BUT THAT WAS IT. THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I EVER HEARD HIS NAME, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE A ROLE AT THAT TIME, AND SHE WAS JUST CONSIDERING WHAT TO DO. UM AND THEN I THINK THE WAY THIS ROLE CAME ABOUT REALLY WAS THAT THE INTEREST IN GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS AND INFLUENCING CERTAIN STATE LEGISLATION. I THINK WAS OF INTEREST AS WELL AS THE INNOVATION WORK THAT THE COUNCIL WAS GROWING IN ITS SCOPE AND EFFORTS, AND IT WAS GETTING BIGGER THAN JUST TAMMY COULD HANDLE ON HER OWN. IT WAS BIGGER THAN A ONE PERSON, ONE LEADER TYPE JOB. OKAY THANK YOU. WAS THERE DISCUSSION ABOUT HIM AT BOARD MEETINGS PRIOR TO HIS HIRING? UM. NOT THAT I RECALL. I DO ATTEND THE BOARD MEETINGS. AS AS AS AN ADVISOR. I'M NOT A MEMBER OF THE BOARD. UM AND I DON'T RECALL THAT MAYBE HE WAS BROUGHT UP. THAT THAT THERE WAS A POSSIBLE CANDIDATE, BUT I HONESTLY DON'T REMEMBER THAT SPECIFICALLY AT A BOARD LEVEL. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IF YOU DON'T SEE ANYBODY ELSE IN QUEUE, ANYBODY ONLINE, UH, COUNCILMAN 
          [01:00:05]
CHAPPELL. MR RAM. YOU HAVE SAID THAT. UH, COUNCILMAN PIRANI WAS AN MC AT THE OPTIMIZED CONFERENCE WAS THAT IN 2022 OR 2023? 2023 OK, THANK YOU. THANK YOU ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FROM ANYBODY ONLINE? SEE NONE. I DON'T SEE ANY IN THE ROOM, MR. RUMORS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS MORNING. GREAT. THANK YOU ALL, MR SMITH, UH, BEFORE YOU CALL YOUR NEXT QUESTION, I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO RECESS. UH, SO LET'S TAKE 10 COME BACK AT 1010, AND WE'LL CALL YOUR NEXT LATEST. THANK YOU. 
          MHM. 
          [01:08:52]
MM. 
          HUH? 
          [01:11:04]
WE COME BACK TO ORDER PLEASE. MR SMITH, YOU MAY CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS. THANK YOU. CHAIR WINKLER. COUNCILMAN PAGE TINI CALLS JOSHUA WILLIAMS. OK, I BELIEVE THE CLERK IS GETTING MR WILLIAMS. MR WILLIAMS. WELCOME. YOU'RE GONNA COUNTY ATTORNEYS YOU CAN COME ON DOWN COUNTY ATTORNEY IS GONNA SWEAR YOU IN. UH, YOU'RE GONNA SIT RIGHT HERE YOU'LL HIT THE BUTTON ON THE MICROPHONE TO TURN IT ON. YOU CAN JUST LEAVE IT ON THE WHOLE TIME. UH, AND THEN WE JUST ASK THAT YOU MAKE SURE YOU SPEAK DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE SO THAT THE COURT RECORDER CAN RECORD YOU OK? THANK YOU. DO YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. THANK YOU. OK, MR SMITH. ONCE MR WILLIAMS GET SETTLED, IT'S ALL YOURS. GOOD MORNING, MR WILL WILLIAMS. HOW ARE YOU TODAY? GOOD MORNING. DOING WELL, UM WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? YES UH, JOSH WILLIAMS AND MR WILLIAMS. HOW ARE YOU EMPLOYED? UH, I'M CURRENTLY THE VICE PRESIDENT OF STRATEGIC INITIATIVES AT THE COC. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN EMPLOYED IN A LET ME JUST STAY UPFRONT, THE LOUIS HEALTHCARE CEO COUNCIL. I MAY REFER TO IT AS THE CEO C OR THE CEO COUNCIL. IS THAT A AN ACCEPTABLE WAY OF REFERRING TO IT IN SHORTHAND? SURE OK, HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN EMPLOYED BY THE CEO COUNCIL AS A VICE PRESIDENT FOR STRATEGIC INITIATIVES? UH, ROUGHLY ABOUT A YEAR NOW AND PRIOR TO WORKING, UH, FOR AS THE VICE PRESIDENT FOR STRATEGIC INITIATIVES DID YOU HAVE, UH ANY EDUCATIONAL OR PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE IN WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT ISSUES? UH, YES. I'VE SPENT ROUGHLY A DECADE WORKING IN DESIGNING, IMPLEMENTING AND SCALING, UH, WORKFORCE INITIATIVES AT A LOCAL STATE AND THEN ALSO A NATIONAL LEVEL. COULD YOU GIVE THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL IN TERMS OF YOUR EXPERIENCE WORKING IN WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT ISSUES? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. SO I'VE WORKED IN HIGHER EDUCATION BOTH ON THE PUBLIC AND THE PRIVATE SIDE. UH, SPECIFICALLY DESIGNING PROGRAMS THAT REALLY MITIGATE AND BRIDGE THAT GAP BETWEEN GRADUATES. UH, AND THEN ALSO EMPLOYMENT FROM THERE, I WENT AND WORKED AT THE KENTUCKY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE FOUNDATION, STANDING UP THEIR LEADING WORKFORCE INITIATIVE. WE WERE SELECTED AS ONE OF THREE STATES IN THE NATION TO PILOT A NEW PROGRAM. UM, AND WITHIN THAT, IT WAS VERY BE AROUND, BRINGING TOGETHER INDUSTRY LEADERSHIP TO ADDRESS COMMON WORKFORCE ISSUES. FOLLOWING THAT I WAS ACTUALLY SELECTED AS ONE OF A HANDFUL OF LEADERS NATIONALLY TO GO ACROSS AND WORK WITH GOVERNMENT AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ENTITIES IN OTHER AREAS OF THE COUNTRY TO REPLICATE THE MODEL THAT WE STOOD UP IN KENTUCKY, UM AND THEN HELP THEM STAND IT UP AS WELL. AND THEY'RE THEIR LOCAL ECONOMY. UM, FROM THERE, I ALSO WENT AND WORKED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUIS, UH, DESIGNING CURRICULUM AND INTEGRATING WORK BASED LEARNING EXPERIENCES. UM, AND THEN I I'M GONNA WAIT THE CO HEALTHCARE CO. COUNCIL THANK YOU AS VICE PRESIDENT OF STRATEGIC INITIATIVES FOR THE CEO COUNCIL, COULD YOU DESCRIBE WHAT YOUR PRIMARY JOB RESPONSIBILITIES ARE ? YES UH, SO MY JOB IS SPECIFICALLY TO SUPPORT TAMMY AND OUR BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND DESIGNING, UH, STRATEGIC INITIATIVES THAT ADVANCE THE 
          [01:15:05]
MISSION OF OUR ORGANIZATION, WHICH IS PRIMARILY TO LEVERAGE THE COLLECTIVE OF THIS INDUSTRY, UH, TO ADDRESS NATIONAL HEALTH CARE CHALLENGES AND AT THE SAME TIME PROMOTE REGIONAL ECONOMIC VIBRANCY. OK? AND SO WE'VE HEARD FAIR AMOUNT OF, UH, TESTIMONY ABOUT THREE GRANT PROPOSALS THAT ARE RELATED IN ONE FORM OR FASHION TO THE CEO COUNCIL AND JUST AT AT A HIGH LEVEL SUMMARY A $9.2 MILLION GRANT APPLICATION. THAT THE CEO COUNCIL SUBMITTED UNDER THE, UH FOR AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN FUNDS, A $50 MILLION GRANT APPLICATION AT AN ENTITY KNOWN AS THE HEALTH CARE WORKFORCE INNOVATION COALITION SUBMITTED TO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATION PURSUANT TO THE BUILD BACK BETTER PROGRAM AND A $40 MILLION GRANT AWARD TO THE HEALTHCARE WORKFORCE COALITION UNDER, UH, THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN FUNDS. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THESE THREE? GRANT? UH, PROJECTS. I AM. UM HOW ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THOSE GRANTS AUTHORED THE FIRST ONE. IT PLAYED A LEADING ROLE IN THE WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT COMPONENT OF THE SECOND ONE AND THEN SERVED AS THE COALITION LEAD. UH, FOR THE THIRD. AS THE COALITION LEAD FOR THE THIRD. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE $40 MILLION A RP GRANT. YES, SIR. OK SO IN THAT ROLE, WHERE YOU ESSENTIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR IMPLEMENTING EXECUTING THE $40 MILLION AWARD THAT IS CORRECT, OK? UM MISTER WILLIAMS. UH, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF BINDERS TO YOUR SIDE. THERE IS ONE THAT SAYS, UH, EITHER RESPONDENTS, EXHIBITS OR COUNCILMAN PINI'S EXHIBITS. DO YOU SEE THAT BINDER? YES, OK. IF YOU WOULD, WOULD YOU, UH, OPEN THAT BINDER TO A TAB 41. LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE THERE. IT'S A LITTLE BULKY, SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. 
          YES. AND ARE YOU LOOKING AT A DOCUMENT THAT IS LABELED RESPONDENTS EXHIBIT 41 IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT HAND CORNER, AND COULD YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT? WHAT THE DOCUMENT IS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT? YES THIS IS A VISUAL BREAKDOWN AMONG THE THREE GRANTS THAT YOU JUST REFERENCED IT, UH, AT THE TOP, YOU'RE SEEING THE LABEL FOR THE GRANT? UM AND THEN THE BOTTOM BOX. YOU'RE SEEING THE PROPOSAL ITSELF, WHO SUBMITTED IT THE AWARD AMOUNT AS WELL AS SOME OF THE KEY ELEMENTS OF EACH OF THE RESPECTIVE GRANTS. AND DID YOU PREPARE THIS SUMMARY? UH BASED UPON YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE THREE GRANT PROJECTS I CHAIR WINKLER. I MOVED TO ADMIT RESPOND. THIS EXHIBIT 41 INTO EVIDENCE. PUBLISH THAT THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. I WANT TO TAKE MRS ME. WE GET A COPY TO THE CLERK, PLEASE. I PROMISE. BY THE TIME THIS IS OVER, I WILL HAVE THIS DOWN. APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. ALL RIGHT. LET LET'S WALK THROUGH THIS, UH, THIS CHART. IF WE CAN, UM BRIEFLY. SO THERE ARE ARE THERE THREE COLUMNS EACH COLUMN. 
          DESCRIBES ONE OF THE THREE GRANTS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY. IT IS OK, LET'S TAKE THEM ONE BY ONE. FAR LEFT. UNDER THE DESCRIPTION. AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ONE. WHAT IS THIS? COLUMN, UH, DESCRIBING UH, YES. THIS IS, UH, REPRESENTATIVE OF, UH, OUR GRANT PROPOSAL THAT WE SUBMITTED FOR FUNDING. OK AND YOU SAY WE ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE CEO COUNCIL? I AM OK, AND THAT IS TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM OTHER PROPOSALS THAT INVOLVED OTHER STAKEHOLDERS. PART OF A HEALTH CARE COALITION. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY THAT IS CORRECT, RIGHT? AND IT AND THIS IS THIS, UH, RELATED TO A NINE POINT MILLION $9.2 MILLION APPLICATION? IS THERE OK ? AND UNDERNEATH THAT IT SAYS SINGULAR COMPONENT PROJECT. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UM, THE SUBSEQUENT, UH GRANTS THAT WE PURSUED HAD DIFFERENT COMPONENTS AS PART OF THE PROPOSAL. UH, THIS ONE ONLY HAD ONE SO JUST TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THOSE OTHERS, OK AND UNDERNEATH THAT IT SAYS, ESTABLISH A CENTER FOR HEALTHCARE WORKFORCE. INNOVATION, DOES IT NOT? IT DOES. COULD YOU JUST AT A HIGH LEVEL DESCRIBE. WHAT IS THAT ASPECT OF THIS COMPONENT? UM, WE , THROUGH THE CEO COUNCIL HAVE WORKED DIRECTLY WITH THE LARGEST HEALTH CARE ORGANIZATIONS IN THE REGION. UM WHO ARE VERY UM AND AS A RESULT OF THAT PROXIMITY TO THEM, WE ARE SPECIFICALLY 
          [01:20:03]
POSITIONED TO BE ABLE TO CHARACTERIZE WHAT ARE THE MOST NECESSARY AND NEEDED HEALTH CARE JOBS AND THEN TO USE THOSE INSIGHTS TO DESIGN AND, UM, RECRUITMENT EFFORTS TO FILL THOSE POSITIONS AND PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS SO AT THE END OF THE DAY WE HAD A GROUP OF HEALTH CARE EMPLOYERS WHO WANTED TO ADDRESS HIS HEALTH CARE CHALLENGE. UM BY FILLING THESE POSITIONS, PROVIDING TRAINING IN A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS, OK, AND UNDERNEATH THAT IT IT LOOKS LIKE IT. UH, IT LISTS SOME GOALS OR OBJECTIVES FOR THAT PARTICULAR PROJECT. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY THAT'S CORRECT. IT WAS THE GOAL TO RECRUIT AND FILL 1500 HEALTH CARE POSITIONS. 
          YES AND AN UPSCALE 500 PARTICIPANTS INTO HIGHER PAYING ROLES THROUGH CAREER PATHWAY TRAINING. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? YES. SO DOES THAT MEAN YOU'RE YOU'RE, UH RECRUITING AND HIRING , BUT THEN YOU'RE ALSO PROVIDING A PATHWAY FOR THEM TO MOVE UP THE LADDER IN THEIR RESPECTIVE PROFESSION. THAT IS CORRECT. AND THEN, UH, THE NEXT BULLET POINT IS TO TRACK 750 HEALTH CARE EMPLOYEES WHO LIVE AND WORK IN LOUISVILLE. WHAT WHAT DID THAT ENTAIL? THAT'S ESSENTIALLY SAYING IF WE'RE DOING THIS PARTICULAR ACTIVITY OF RECRUITMENT, AND UPSKILLING RECOGNIZES THAT THAT TAKES TIME. UM AND WHAT WE WANTED TO DO AS A FULL IMPLEMENTATION STRATEGY THAT FOCUSED ON NOT ONLY BUILDING OUR OWN TALENT THROUGH THESE CAREER PATHWAYS THAT YOU REFERENCED BUT ALSO, UH, IDENTIFYING KEY TALENT OUTSIDE OF KENTUCKY AND, UM, BRINGING THEM HERE TO LIVE AND WORK IN LOUISVILLE AND LOT OF US HAS FOCUSED ON HEALTH CARE JOBS AT ALL LEVELS. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? YEAH UM, TRADITIONALLY, WHENEVER WE THINK ABOUT HEALTH CAROLINA FOLKS GO TO THE TRADITIONAL ROLES, NURSES, DOCTORS, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, AND WHILE THAT CERTAINLY WAS A COMPONENT OF THIS PARTICULAR WORK, WE WERE FOCUSED ON ALL POSITIONS WITHIN HEALTH CARE. UM ON THE CLINICAL SIDE, THE NON CLINICAL SIDE AND WHAT WE WOULD TYPICALLY SAY IS FROM ENTRY LEVEL TO EXECUTIVE. I'M SORRY FROM WHAT ENTRY LEVEL TO EXECUTIVE. OK, SO NOT JUST ENTRY LEVEL NURSES, AS I GUESS IS WHAT I'M HEARING FOR YOU. THAT'S A PART OF IT. BUT THAT'S NOT THE ENTIRETY OF THE FOCUS OF THAT PARTICULAR PROJECT. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY THAT IS FAIR. ALL RIGHT, LET'S TAKE A LOOK NOW AT THE CENTER COLUMN, WHICH IS UNDER THE HEADING, BUILD BACK. 
          BETTER REGIONAL CHALLENGE. BBB. COULD YOU, UM UH, THIS IS A COALITION PROPOSAL. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. AND WHO ARE THE MEMBERS OF THAT COALITION? UH, IT WAS THE COC IS THE LEAD, UM, AND NO PARTICULAR ORDER OR A GREATER LEVEL INK AND METRO UNITED WAY. KIP TO THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE, THE W URBAN LEAGUE. I BELIEVE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN ONE OTHER AND IT SAYS THAT THIS IS THIS IS A PROPOSAL FOR $50 MILLION IN FUNDING. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT, OK? NOW I DESCRIBES FIVE COMPONENT PROJECTS. SO AGAIN. IS THIS TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM THE PREVIOUS, UH, GRANT UNDER THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ONE COLUMN THAT THIS HAS FIVE ESSENTIAL COMPONENTS TO THIS GRANT. THAT IS CORRECT. THAT'S THE WAY THE BILD BANK BETTER. 
          GRANT WAS STRUCTURED. OK LET'S TAKE A MINUTE JUST SO WE CAN GET AN UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHAT EACH OF THESE FIVE COMPONENT PROJECTS WERE THE FIRST ONE, SAYS RUSSELL STATION, TECH AND LEARNING CENTER TO SCALE HEALTH TECH TRAINING WHILE ANCHORING CON, UH , ECONOMIC ACTIVITY IN WEST LOUISVILLE. DID I READ THAT CORRECTLY? YOU DID. OK. COULD YOU EXPLAIN WHAT WHAT THE RUSSELL STATION TECH AND LEARNING CENTER WAS AND WHAT IT WAS, UH, PROPOSING TO DO? YES, THIS WAS A PRIMA EQUITY BASED WORKFORCE INITIATIVE. UM ON THE ONE HAND, WE HAD A SIZABLE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS, PRIMARILY IN WEST LOUISVILLE, WHO DID NOT HAVE OR UNEMPLOYED OR UNDEREMPLOYED AT HIGHER RATES THAN IN OTHER PLACES, AND ON THE OTHER HAND, WE HAD A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF JOBS THAT NEEDED TO BE FILLED. AND SO IN ORDER FOR US TO BE ABLE TO BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS. OUR GOAL WAS TO BUILD A, UH, A TECH AND LEARNING CENTER, WHERE TRAINING DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES WOULD OCCUR, AND WE WOULD ANCHOR THAT IN IN THE RUSSELL, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD, AND IT SAYS TECH TRAINING. WHAT DOES HEALTH TECH TRAINING MEAN? HEALTH TECH TRAINING IS PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON TECHNOLOGY, JOBS OF ALL SHAPES AND SIZES, SPECIFICALLY ORIENTED TOWARDS WORK WORKING WITHIN THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY. COULD YOU GIVE SOME EXAMPLES AS TO WHAT THAT MIGHT BE? ABSOLUTELY BE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT. UH, DATA SCIENCE, CYBER SECURITY, AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF OTHER EMERGING PROFESSIONS AS WELL. OK? THE NEXT BULLET POINT SAYS DIGITAL HEALTH, ENTREPRENEURSHIP , INNOVATION AND COMMERCIALIZATION. WHAT DID THAT COMPONENT? UH MEAN THAT SPECIFICALLY IN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF OUR HEALTH CARE INNOVATION ENGINE AT THE CO, WHICH IS DESIGNED TO, UH, UNDERSTAND THE GREATEST CHALLENGES THAT ARE FACING THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY AND THEN TO IDENTIFY SOLUTIONS, PRIMARILY IN THE FORM OF START UP TECHNOLOGY AND PROCESS IMPROVEMENT. BRING THOSE IN AND, UH TO TEST AND VALIDATE THOSE WITHIN A PAID ENVIRONMENT AND THEN TO SCA SOLUTIONS NATIONALLY, IF THEY IF THEY'RE EFFECTIVE, THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF THAT WOULD SCALE THAT WORK TREMENDOUSLY AND WAS SPECIFICALLY FOCUSED ON THOSE ACTIVITIES. OK AND THE VERY BEGINNING OF THAT REFERENCE IS DIGITAL HEALTH. WHAT IS DIGITAL HEALTH MEAN? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION? UM, SO PRIMARILY AS WE 
          [01:25:04]
MOVE MORE AND MORE TO WHAT WE WOULD CALL A MODERN HEALTH CARE ENVIRONMENT TECHNOLOGIES, PLAYING AN INCREASINGLY MORE IMPORTANT ROLE WITHIN THAT, AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DIGITAL HEALTH, THAT'S ALL THE DIFFERENT, UM, APPLICATIONS. A DIFFERENT TOOLS AND TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE USED THAT ENABLE AND IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF DELIVERY OF CARE. COULD YOU GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT TYPES OF, UM TECHNOLOGIES OR OTHER FACTORS WOULD MIGHT CONSTITUTE DIGITAL HEALTH. ABSOLUTELY PRIMARILY IN THE LONG TERM CARE SPACE. A BIG ISSUE IS REALLY UNDERSTANDING. 
          HOW DO YOU ENGAGE WITH RESIDENTS AND PRIMARILY UP UNTIL THIS POINT, THAT'S BEEN HIGHLY MANUAL PROCESS, BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN AND WHAT WE'RE WORKING WITH, OR THINGS LIKE THAT SENSORS AND AN EXAMPLE THAT ALLOW NURSES ON THAT FLOOR TO GET A VERY ACCURATE PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THOSE RESIDENTS AND ABLE TO FOCUS THEIR EFFORTS, WHERE BEST NEEDED AS AN EXAMPLE. OK, THE NEXT, UH THE NEXT BULLET POINT IS WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT WITH WRAPAROUND SUPPORTS PARENTHESES FOCUSED ON DIGITAL HEALTH CAREERS. I READ THAT CORRECTLY, YOU DID AND AGAIN, COULD YOU EXPLAIN WHAT WAS, UH, INTENDED BY THAT COMPONENT? ABSOLUTELY THIS WAS PRIMARILY TO, UH, DESIGNED TO RECRUIT FILL AND UPSKILL, UH, POSITIONS PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON DIGITAL HEALTH ROLES. SO THE SIMILAR POSITIONS I TALKED ABOUT EARLIER , OK, JUST JUST FOR MY BENEFIT AS SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T LIVE IN THE HEALTH CARE SERVICE. SO WHAT ARE THE DIGITAL HEALTH ROLES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? AGAIN WE'D BE TALKING ABOUT, UM SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS, DATA, ANALYSTS, DATA SCIENTISTS, DATA ENGINEERS, UM CYBERSECURITY TECHNICIANS, THOSE SORTS OF ROLES. UM AND SINCE IT HAD A FOCUS ON WRAPAROUND SUPPORTS THAT ARE AN EQUITY COMPONENT TO THAT COMPONENT AS WELL, YES, IN ORDER TO REMOVE BARRIERS TO EMPLOYMENT AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. OK THE FOURTH COMPONENT IS DIGITAL HEALTH APPLIED RESEARCH PROGRAM. WHAT WAS THAT COMPONENT ABOUT? AND THAT WAS PRIMARILY LOOKING AT. HOW DO WE BETTER GROW PARTNERSHIP WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE AND LAUNCHED APPLIED RESEARCH PROJECTS FOR THE PURPOSES OF ADVANCING ALL THE WORK WITHIN ALL OF THESE COMPONENT PROJECTS, AND THAT WAS A WAS THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE. THE LEAD, UH, MEMBER OF THE COALITION TO, UM, IN CHARGE OF THAT COMPONENT. YES, SIR. THEY WERE ALL RIGHT, AND THE FIFTH ONE IS NEWLY BUILDING BOOK INTO INNOVATION CORRIDOR. WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT? UH, THAT WAS A SECOND CONSTRUCTION PROJECT. UH, THAT WAS GOING TO BE, UM, SIDES IN THE NEW AREA. AND WHAT WAS THAT BUILDING GOING TO DO? UH, THE CONCEPT BEHIND THIS WAS THAT WE WERE CREATING WHAT IS KNOWN AS A REGIONAL INNOVATION CORRIDOR. SO THE IDEA OF BEING THAT WE WOULD BE BRIDGING THE GAP BETWEEN ACTIVITIES THAT ARE HAPPENING IN WEST LEVEL WITHIN RUSSELL ALL THE WAY OVER TO THE NEW, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD. YEAH. LET ME BACK UP FOR A SECOND, UH, FOR THE RUSSELL STATION. WAS THERE A MEMBER OF THE COALITION THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY ALIGNED WITH OR I GUESS RESPONSIBLE FOR IS ANOTHER WAY OF PUTTING IT WITH THAT PARTICULAR COMPONENT. AND WHAT IS AMPED FOR THOSE OF US WHO MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH IT. IT'S A NONPROFIT, UH, IN THE WEST LOCAL AREA THAT DOES MUSIC PROGRAMMING . UM, TECH TRAINING, UM, INNOVATION AND ENTREPRENEURIAL SUPPORT. I THINK THEY DO SOME OTHER THINGS WHILE THEY'RE PRETTY COOL ORGANIZATION, OK? LET'S TURN NOW TO THE THIRD COLUMN UNDER THE, UH, HEADING AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN TWO. IT SAYS THAT THIS IS ALSO A COALITION PROPOSALS THAT CORRECT THAT'S CORRECT. IS IT THE SAME MEMBERS OF THE COALITION THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THE BUILD BACK? BETTER COALITION? THIS IS A THIS WAS A $40 MILLION PROJECT. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. 
          AND INSTEAD OF FIVE COMPONENTS, WE WENT TO THREE COMPONENTS. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. 
          OK, AND I'LL TRY TO MOVE THROUGH THIS QUICKLY, BUT IT ALSO HAS THE RUSSELL STATION. AND TECH AND LEARNING CENTER. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. WAS THAT ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS WHAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE IN THE BUILD BACK? BETTER PROPOSAL? YES. AND IT ALSO HAS DIGITAL HEALTH, ENTREPRENEURSHIP, INNOVATION AND COMMERCIALIZATION . IS THAT CORRECT? UH, THAT IS CORRECT. IS THAT COMPONENT ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS WHAT WAS IN THE BUILD BACK BETTER. THE MINOR DISTINCTION ON THIS WAS THAT THIS WAS FOCUSED ON THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A VENTURE STUDIO MODEL. UH, WHICH ENSURE IS INSTEAD OF US IDENTIFYING SOLUTIONS. UM AND PILOTING THOSE WOULD BE ACTUALLY THE DEVELOPMENT OF NEW COMPANIES WHERE THE GAPS EXIST. OK AND THEN THE THIRD COMPONENT IS WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT WITH WRAPAROUND SUPPORTS FOCUS ON HEALTH CARE CAREERS AT ALL LEVELS VIA THE HEALTH. CAREER LAB. UM, HOW DOES THAT COMPARE OR CONTRAST TO THE WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT WITH WRAPAROUND SUPPORTS IN THE BUILD BACK, BETTER PROPOSAL. IT TAKES SIMILAR PREMISE FROM THAT, UH FROM THE SECOND PROPOSAL. THE KEY DISTINCTION BETWEEN THIS IS THAT WE WERE NOT SOLELY FOCUSED ON DIGITAL HEALTH CAREERS AS MUCH AS LOOKING AT HEALTH CARE OCCUPATIONS BROADLY WAS, UH, DIGITAL HEALTHCARE CAREERS INCLUDED IN THAT OVERALL CATEGORY. IT WAS SO IT WAS JUST A BROADER CATEGORY. AND SO WHAT ELSE WOULD IT INCLUDE, BESIDES DIGITAL HEALTH CAREERS? THAT IS PRIMARILY WE'RE LOOKING AT UM, 
          [01:30:04]
CAREGIVING ROLES. ALLIED HEALTH ROLES, UM, MANAGEMENT AND SUPERVISORY ROLES. UM THERE'S A BROAD FAMILY OF ROLES THAT WERE TARGETED WITHIN THIS WORK, OK, AND WHAT I DON'T SEE LISTED UNDER THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN TWO COLUMN IS THE DIGITAL HEALTH APPLIED RESEARCH PROGRAM OR THE NEW BUILDING? IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. SO IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THOSE TWO COMPONENTS CAME OUT OF THE, UH, AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN TO PROPOSAL IT IS. YOU MENTIONED, UH, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS. THE NEWLY BUILDING AND THE BUILD BACK BETTER GRANT. UH IN YOUR ROLE AS A VICE PRESIDENT FOR STRATEGIC INITIATIVES FOR THE CEO COUNCIL. DID YOU GENERALLY PARTICIPATE IN MEETINGS WITH THE PARTNERS OF THIS COALITION ABOUT FORMULATING THE BUILD BACK. BETTER GRANT. UH COMPONENTS. I'M SORRY. COULD YOU REPEAT THAT? YEAH I'M SORRY. THAT'S NOT A NOT A GREAT QUESTION AS VICE PRESIDENT FOR STRATEGIC INITIATIVES FOR THE CEO COUNCIL, DID YOU GENERALLY PARTICIPATE IN MEETINGS WITH THE OTHER COALITION PARTNERS ABOUT THE BUILD BACK? BETTER GRANT? YES, RIGHT. AND WAS THE N OO PROJECT, THE NEW BUILDING CONTROVERSIAL AMONG THE COALITION PARTNERS. IT WAS AND WE'VE HEARD TESTIMONY FROM GRACE C ALL THAT THE DISPUTE OVER THIS BUILDING WAS NOT ABOUT WHETHER TO INCLUDE THE NEW BUILDING IN THE BUIL BUILD BACK BETTER APPLICATION, BUT RATHER ABOUT WHETHER TO USE A REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL OR PROCUREMENT PROCESS TO ACQUIRE THIS BUILDING IS THAT IS THAT ACCURATE? COULD YOU REPHRASE? THAT WAS THE CONTROVERSY OVER THE NEW BUILDING? TO INCLUDE THE NEW BUILDING IN THE PROPOSAL, OR WAS IT A DISPUTE OVER TO USE A PROCUREMENT PROCESS? IT WAS THE ROLE AND INCLUSION OF THE NEW BUILDING AND THE PROPOSAL. WHICH COALITION PARTNERS WERE CHAMPIONING THE NEW BUILDING. 
          UH, LOUISVILLE METRO GOVERNMENT, OK AND DID THE CEO COUNCIL TAKE A POSITION WITH RESPECT TO THE NEW NEW BUILDING? WE DID. AND WHAT POSITION DID IT TAKE? WE WERE OPPOSED TO THE INCLUSION OF THIS BUILDING IN THE PROJECT PROPOSAL, AND WHY WAS THE CEO COUNCIL OPPOSED TO INCLUDING THE NEW NEW BUILDING? UM, THERE ARE ALL THIS ACTIVITY. UM EVERYTHING ELSE WITHIN THE OTHER COMPONENT PROJECTS WERE VERY MUCH MISSION FOCUSED AND ALIGNED WITH OUR BROADER GOALS AND THE NEW STATION. WE COULDN'T NECESSARILY IDENTIFY THE, UH, THE KEY ROLE THAT THAT BUILDING WOULD PLAY. 
          UM AND ON TOP OF THAT, WE DIDN'T HAVE A PATH TO SUSTAINABILITY FOR IT. THAT WAS CRYSTAL CLEAR. 
          AS WITH THE REST OF THE OTHER COMPONENT PROJECTS. AND HOW IS THIS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOME PROPONENTS OF THE NEW BUILDING ON THE ONE HAND AND OPPONENTS ON THE OTHER HAND, RESOLVED. WE ACTUALLY CALLED THIS TO A VOTE WITHIN THE COALITION AND OBVIOUSLY THE, UH, THE PROPONENTS OF THE NEW BUILDING, INCLUDING THE NEWER BUILDING PREVAILED IN THAT VOTE. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. WAS IT A CONCERN THAT THE NEW BUILDING MIGHT, UH UNDERMINE THE CHANCES OF SUCCESS IN APPLYING FOR THE BUILD BACK? BETTER GRANT? YES. AT WHAT POINT DID YOU LEARN THAT THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATION HAD UH, MADE A DECISION WITH RESPECT TO THE APPLICATION FOR THE BUILD BACK. BETTER APPLICATION. I DON'T HAVE THE SPECIFIC DATE. UM IT WAS ROUGHLY IN THE SUMMER. IT WAS I BELIEVE IT WAS IN THE SUMMER OF 2020. THREE MAYBE IF I WERE TO REPRESENT THAT IT WAS IN LATE AUGUST OR EARLY SEPTEMBER. WOULD YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO DISAGREE WITH THAT? I WOULD NOT. NO, I'M TERRIBLE WITH TIME. UH, DID YOU AFTER THEY ANNOUNCED THAT THE, UH THE ED A WOULD NOT BE AWARDING, UH, FUNDS FOR THIS PRO, UH PROJECT. DID YOU EVER GET ANY FEEDBACK FROM THE ED A ON WHY, UH, THAT PROJECT WAS NOT SUCCESSFUL AT THAT LEVEL. YES UM, AFTER WE RECEIVED THE NOTIFICATION, WE ALSO RECEIVED AN INVITATION FROM THE ED A THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATION TO SPECIFICALLY TALK ABOUT THE PROPOSAL. UM FEEDBACK ON WHAT WOULD MAKE IT MORE COMPETITIVE THINGS THAT THEY LIKE THINGS THAT THEY DIDN'T AND WHAT DID THEY WHAT FEEDBACK DID THEY PROVIDE, IN PARTICULAR AS TO WHY THEY ULTIMATELY DECIDED NOT TO AWARD THIS GRANT THAT THE DRIVING FACTOR IN THAT DECISION WAS PRIMARILY BASED ON THE FACT THAT WE HAD TWO CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS THAT WERE INCLUDED WITHIN IT, AND THERE WAS FEEDBACK FROM THE ED SPECIFICALLY THAT SAID THAT THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE CONTINUITY OR THE CONNECTEDNESS BETWEEN THE NEW BUILDING IN THE SAME WAY THAT THEY DID FOR THE RUSSELL STATION BUILDING. LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, UM THE $40 MILLION PROJECT 
          [01:35:08]
AND I GUESS IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS, UM, LOOKING AT THIS CHART AGAIN, THE, UH, THE COLUMN ON THE RIGHT HAND. SIDE THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN TWO WAS AT THE GRANT THAT WAS ULTIMATELY AWARDED $40 MILLION BY METRO COUNCIL IN IN LATE 2022. THAT IS CORRECT. AND I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED, UH, A MINUTE AGO THAT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY WAS ESSENTIALLY TO IMPLEMENT OR EXECUTE THE $40 MILLION AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN. GRANT IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. SO YOU ULTIMATELY OVERSAW THE FASTEST OF THAT GRANT EXECUTION. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY THAT IS FAIR, OK? DID THE CEO COUNSEL AND ITS PARTNERS IN THE COALITION ESTABLISH A FORMAL ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE TO IMPLEMENT THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN. AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN GRANT YES, WE DID OK, IF YOU COULD TURN TO, UH, TAB 38 IN YOUR BINDER, THE BINDER OF THE COUNCIL P ARGENTINA EXHIBITS LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE THERE. THE, UH ARE YOU LOOKING AT A DOCUMENT THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS RESPONDENTS EXHIBIT 38 IN THE BOTTOM, RIGHT HAND CORNER? YES AND COULD YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT? WHAT THIS DOCUMENT IS, UM IN ESSENCE, THIS IS WAS A PRETTY COMPLEX PROJECT THAT INVOLVED MULTIPLE ORGANIZATIONS WORKING IN LOCKSTEP WITH ONE ANOTHER. AND UM, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS CAME DOWN TO PROJECT MANAGEMENT, MAKING SURE THAT WE HAD CLEAR ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES AND UNDERSTANDING WHO FROM WHICH ORGANIZATION WAS INVOLVED AND ENGAGED. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THIS IS AN ORGANIZATIONAL CHART? DESCRIBING THE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE VARIOUS PARTNERS IN THIS COALITION AND IN IMPLEMENTING THIS, UH, $40 MILLION GRANT. THAT IS TRUE CHAIR WINKLER HAD MOVED TO ADMIT , UH EXHIBIT RES RESPONDENTS EXHIBIT 38 INTO EVIDENCE. SORT OF IT. AND I WILL NOW REMEMBER, MADAM CLERK. ALL RIGHT, LET'S TAKE A MINUTE TO WALK THROUGH THIS, UH, ORGANIZATIONAL CHART, MR. WILLIAMS, UM I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARD TO SEE. THERE'S ACTUALLY THERE'S MULTIPLE PAGES IN THIS, UH, ORGANIZATIONAL CHART. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY THERE IS SO THIS FIRST PAGE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT? I MEAN, WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THIS AS SORT OF THE GLOBAL ORGANIZATIONAL CHART? IS THAT A FAIR DESCRIPTION? AND THEN IF YOU IF WE, YOU KNOW, MOVE FORWARD IN THE DOCUMENT, DOES IT? UM DOES IT SORT OF ZOOM IN ON VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURES WITHIN THE OVERALL? UH, COALITION? IS THAT FAIR TO SAY THAT IS FAIR. OK? ALL RIGHT. AND AGAIN JUST COULD YOU EXPLAIN WHY WHY WAS THIS DOCUMENT CREATED? THIS DOCUMENT WAS CREATED SIMPLY JUST TO ORGANIZE THE VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE PART OF THE COALITION TO UNDERSTAND THE REPORTING LINES. UM, AND TO UNDERSTAND AGAIN, WHO FROM EACH ORGANIZATION WAS INVOLVED IN WHAT THEIR ROLE SPECIFICALLY WITHIN THE COALITION WAS. OK? DOES THIS ORGANIZATIONAL CHART INCLUDE THE POSITIONS OF EVERY PERSON WHO WORKED FOR THE CEO COUNCIL TO IMPLEMENT OR EXECUTE THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN. GRANT THAT'S CORRECT. OK LET'S SEE. MAYBE YEAH, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT HEALTH CAREER LAB. THAT'S THE BOX AT THE VERY TOP OF THE GLOBAL. UH CHART. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. JUST WE'RE ALL GETTING OUR BEARINGS HERE. SO WE IF WE TURN TO PAGE TWO, IT ACTUALLY DOES. IT ACTUALLY SHOWED THE HEALTH CAREER LAB THERE. IT DOES. OK WHAT? UH WHAT IS THE HEALTH CAREER LAB? THAT WAS THE, UM, ESSENTIALLY THE SUB ORGANIZATION THAT WE'VE CREATED. THAT WOULD BE THE CONDUIT FOR ALL THIS ACTIVITY. UM SIMPLY PUT ON THE ONE HAND AGAIN. WE HAD A SET OF HEALTH CARE ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE ORGANIZED AND WILLING TO WORK TOGETHER TO ADDRESS THESE WORKFORCE ISSUES. THEY WERE COMMITTED TO HIRING FOLKS AND DEVELOPING THEM. AND ON THE OTHER HAND, UH, WE HAD A SIZABLE GROUP OF COMMUNITY PARTNERS THAT UP UNTIL THIS POINT HAD IN MANY CASES WORKED IN SILOS, SO THE HEALTH CARE LAB WAS DESIGNED TO ORGANIZE THOSE COMMUNITY PARTNERS AND CONNECT THEM IN THE PARTICIPANTS, UH, TO THE ACTUAL EMPLOYMENT WITHIN HEALTHCARE ORGANIZATIONS. FAIR TO SAY THAT THE HEALTH CARE LAB IS, UM FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM SORT OF A ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE WITHIN THE CEO COUNCIL. YES, SO I SEE. UH AT THE TOP OF THAT, TAMMY 
          [01:40:01]
TAMMY YOUR DAY PRESIDENT CEO OF THE CEO COUNCIL. UH, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. AND THEN ON THE LINE, SORT OF BENEATH IT. YOU'RE LISTED THERE WITH A DOTTED LINE TO BREA HENSON, WHO IS BRIA HENSON. SHE WAS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HEALTHCARE LAB. OK, AND THEN TO THE SIDE OF THAT, AND ANOTHER REPORTING LINE IS KENDRICK NORRIS, WHO IS KENDRICK NORRIS. 
          SHE IS THE VICE PRESIDENT OF OPERATIONS WITH THE CEO C, OK? ON THE FAR LEFT. THERE'S A LINE DIRECTOR OF INNOVATION TBD. WHAT WAS THAT? THAT WAS A VACANCY, UM, SPECIFICALLY HIRING AN INDIVIDUAL TO OVERSEE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE VENTURE STUDIO COMPONENT. OK AND UNDERNEATH THAT THERE'S A THERE'S A POSITION PROJECT MANAGER. WHAT IS THAT? THAT IS A PROJECT MANAGEMENT POSITION THAT WOULD BE PROVIDING SUPPORT TO THE VENTURE STUDIO, OK? IN THE NEXT UH, REPORTING LINE TO THE RIGHT. THERE'S A IT SAYS PROGRAMMATIC. IS IT? NOT IT DOES OK, AND THERE'S AN INDIVIDUAL ERICA, DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION AND TRAINING. WHAT WAS THAT POSITION? HE WAS PRIMARILY RESPONSIBLE FOR DESIGNING THE CAREER PATHWAY MODELS AND IMPLEMENTING THE TRAINING RUNNING POINT ON, UH, INTERFACE WITH THE EDUCATION PROVIDERS, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE TWO PEOPLE THAT REPORTED TO HIM UNDERNEATH HIS ORGANIZATIONAL LINE. BRANDON HUNTER, CAREER ADVISOR AND LETICIA AKIN AIKENS CAREER ADVISORS THAT CORRECT THAT IS CORRECT. WHAT DID THEY DO? UH, THEY ACTUALLY HAD A REALLY COOL JOB THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY FOCUSED ON SUPPORTING INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE HAVE BEEN PLACED INTO EMPLOYMENT WITHIN THE HEALTH CARE SETTING AND WHAT THEIR JOB WAS, TO ESSENTIALLY ONE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT IF THEY NEEDED ANYTHING IN TERMS OF BAR REMOVAL, WRAPAROUND SUPPORTS THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO MAKE THOSE CONNECTIONS. THE SECOND PIECE WAS TO PROVIDE ONGOING TAILORED CAREER DEVELOPMENT SUPPORT. SO WHAT ARE YOU INTERESTED IN DOING NOW THAT YOU'RE IN HEALTH CARE? IS THAT STILL VIABLE AND THEN DEVELOPING A VERY PERSONALIZED CAREER DEVELOPMENT PLAN? AND TO ENABLE THAT INDIVIDUAL TO BE ABLE TO GROW THEIR CAREER. OK AND THEN AGAIN ON THE S ON THE PROGRAMMATIC LINE. THERE'S A PERSON TO THE RIGHT. SIMONE BROWN RECRUITER. WHAT WHAT WAS THAT POSITION? SIMONE WAS THERE AND TRACY BOTH WERE RECRUITERS FOR THE HEALTH CARE LAB, WHICH WAS ESSENTIALLY WORKING WITH OUR COALITION PARTNERS AND OTHER CHANNELS TO RECRUIT PARTICIPANTS INTO THE HEALTH CARE LAB. OK, AND THEN TO THE RIGHT OF THAT IS TRACY ROBERTS, RECRUITER. WHAT WAS THAT POSITION? SAME RIGHT? TO THE RIGHT OF THAT UNDER SORT OF REPORTING TO KENDRICK NORRIS WAS JUDY COP CONTROLLER. WHAT? WHAT WAS THAT SHE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR HANDLING THE FINANCES OF ALL OF US. OK TO THE RIGHT OF THAT CAITLIN GREENWELL, DIRECTOR OF MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS. WHAT WAS THAT SHE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR SUPPORTING THE INITIATIVE FROM A MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS PERSPECTIVE BUT ALSO LEADING POINT ON THE OUTREACH CAMPAIGN ASSOCIATED WITH THIS WORK, OK, AND THEN TO THE RIGHT OF THAT DIRECTOR OF DATA AND ANALYTICS TBD. WHAT IS THAT? THAT WAS THE ALL THAT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DATA INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH WAS ANOTHER COMPONENT OF THE VENTURE STUDIO PROJECT, OK? ALL RIGHT, SO THAT THAT WAS SORT OF AN ORGANIZATION STRUCTURE WITHIN THE CEO COUNCIL. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY THAT IS THIS IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT HARD TO DO BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT THE DOCUMENT BREAKS DOWN WHEN YOU PRINT IT OUT. BUT MIKE, LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PAGE ONE AND SEE IF YOU CAN ZOOM IN RIGHT THERE ON THE MIDDLE OF THAT. UNDERNEATH THE HEALTH CAREER LAB. ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT MORE. OK UNDERNEATH THAT. IT SAYS THAT SORRY. THE HEALTH CARE WORKFORCE INNOVATION COALITION HW IC. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT AND UNDER IN THAT BOX IT HAS YOU AND THEN JUDY BRISTOW. 
          IS THAT SO? IS THAT A REFERENCE TO THE YOU IN IN CHARGE OF OVERALL IMPLEMENTING AND EXECUTING THIS COALITION GRANT THAT IS CORRECT. AND THEN UNDERNEATH THAT, AND YOU KNOW, SORT OF REPORTING AND STRUCTURES OR IN SILOS. UM ARE THERE ALL OF THE DIFFERENT PARTNERS WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE COALITION? THAT IS CORRECT. AND WITHIN THOSE, UH, BOXES DOES IT LIST THE POSITIONS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE TO SUPPORT THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE AR GRANT WITH REGARD TO THE COMPONENTS THAT THEY WERE INVOLVED IN? THAT IS CORRECT, OK? NOW. I DON'T SEE COUNCILMAN PAGE'S NAME OR HIS POSITION, UH, LISTED ANYWHERE IN THE HEALTH CARE CAREER LAB ORGANIZATIONAL BOX. UM IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. WHY IS HIS NAME NOT LISTED IN THIS BOX? ANTHONY DIDN'T HAVE, UM, ANY ROLE OR RESPONSIBILITY WITHIN THIS WORK, AND I DIDN'T SEE HIM IN SPECIFICALLY IN THE HEALTH CARE WORKFORCE INNOVATION COALITION BOX. WHY IS THAT? HE WAS NOT INVOLVED WITH THIS WORK. HE WASN'T INVOLVED IN EXECUTING OR IMPLEMENTING THIS GRANT. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY THAT IS FAIR. IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THE POSITION THAT COUNCILMAN 
          [01:45:10]
PIACENTINI HAD WITH THE CEO COUNSEL IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IN THIS ORGANIZATIONAL CHART. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. IS THAT AGAIN BECAUSE HIS JOB RESPONSIBILITIES WERE NOT TO IMPLEMENT OR EXECUTE THE GRANT? THAT'S CORRECT. AND AS THE PERSON THAT WAS OVERALL IN CHARGE OF THAT, WOULD YOU KNOW THAT TO BE THE CASE? I WOULD. 
          FROM YOUR FROM YOUR OBSERVATIONS. DID YOU SEE COUNCILMAN PITI AND THE CEO COUNCIL OFFICES, PERFORMING HIS JOB RESPONSIBILITIES AND, UM DID YOU HAVE BASIS FOR, UH ESTIMATING IF HE WAS WORKING, UH SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF HOURS AND, UH, IN HIS POSITION. I DID, UM I WOULD BE AVERAGING AROUND 60 HOURS A WEEK DURING THIS TIME PERIOD, AND ANTHONY WOULD BE IN LOCKSTEP, IF NOT MORE, AS EVIDENCED BY THE FACT THAT I'D BE RECEIVING EMAILS AT REALLY LATE HOURS. AND DID YOU WORK WITH HIM IN SOME CAPACITY ON SOME OF THE GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS WORK THAT HE WAS DOING? I DID. DID YOU WORK WITH HIM ON SOME CAPACITY ON SOME OF THE INNOVATION WORK THAT HE WAS DOING? I DID. WE'VE HEARD SOME TESTIMONY ABOUT A COUPLE OF MEETINGS THAT COUNCILMAN PITI, UH, ATTENDED, UH, IN THE JANUARY 2023 TIME FRAME BETWEEN REPRESENTATIVES OF THE CEO COUNCIL, OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COALITION IN LOUISVILLE METRO GOVERNMENT, UM WERE YOU PRESENT DURING THOSE MEETINGS. I WAS, UM AND WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THOSE MEETINGS? THOSE WERE TO INITIATE THE STRUCTURE FOR THIS AWARDED GRANT SO FOLLOWING, UM THE VOTE IN TW LATE 2022. THIS WAS TO BEGIN WORKING OUT THE COMPLIANCE REVIEW ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. AND, UM DO YOU KNOW HOW COUNCILMAN PAGNI CAME TO BE INCLUDED IN THOSE MEETINGS. YES UH ANTHONY WAS JUST STARTING AT THAT POINT OR RELATIVELY NEW WITHIN HIS ROLE WITHIN THAT ART ORGANIZATION. WE ESSENTIALLY CROSS TRAIN EVERYONE , UM, SO WE INCLUDE THEM IN AREAS EVEN IF IT'S NOT DIRECTLY RELATED TO THEIR DAY TO DAY JOB JUST SO THAT THEY'RE AWARE OF THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION. SO WE HAVE SOME AWARENESS AND FAMILIARITY WITH WHAT WAS GOING ON. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY THAT IT IS FAIR TO SAY. 
          MORE QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME. THANK YOU, MR SMITH. MR WICKER. IN. 
          [01:50:17]
ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, MR WILLIAMS. GOOD MORNING. NOW YOU WERE THE VICE PRESIDENT OF STRATEGIC INITIATIVES FOR THE CEO. IS THAT RIGHT? THAT IS CORRECT. DID MR PAGE REPORT TO YOU? UH, NO. HE DID NOT. DID HE REPORT TO DAY IS THAT THE LINE? THAT IS CORRECT? DID YOU ALSO REPORT TO MISS DAY? I DO. UM IS HIS SALARY HIGHER OR LOWER THAN YOURS. UM I'M NOT SURE IF I KNOW WHAT HE MADE $240,000 A YEAR. UH HIS WAS HIGHER THAN MINE WAS HIGHER. SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER. 
          UH, I DON'T BELIEVE SO. WERE YOU PART OF THE DECISION TO HIRE MR PIAGET? I WAS NOT UM WERE YOU PART OF AN INTERVIEW FOR HIM FOR THE JOB? I WAS NOT UH, DID YOU REVIEW ANY PART OF HIS WORK PRODUCT? UH, HOW DO YOU MEAN? WORK THAT HE HAD DONE PREVIOUSLY THAT HE MIGHT SUBMIT TO SHOW THAT HE WAS GOOD. IT'S A JOB HE WAS APPLYING FOR. I DID NOT. DID YOU CHECK HIS REFERENCES? I DID NOT. DID UM, DID YOU OR ANYONE ELSE AT THE CEO C INTERVIEW ANYONE ELSE FOR THE JOB? I'M NOT SURE. WAS THERE ANY KIND OF SEARCH? UM CONDUCTED EITHER LOCALLY OR NATIONALLY TO FILL THE POSITION. UM, I WOULDN'T BE SURE I DON'T HANDLE OUR HR OPERATIONS WITHIN THE CC. OK WELL, YOU CERTAINLY KNOW THERE ARE OTHER HEALTH CARE CONSULTANTS IN LOUISVILLE AND AROUND THE COUNTRY. RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT, AND SOME OF THEM WEREN'T ACTUALLY THE METRO COUNCILMAN WHO WAS ADVOCATING FOR THE GRANT. THAT YOUR ORGANIZATION RECEIVED RIGHT? I'M NOT SURE OK? NOW WE'VE HEARD TESTIMONY FROM THE PRIOR WITNESS THAT THE BOARD OF THE CEO C DIDN'T ACTUALLY APPROVE HIS HIRING. WERE YOU AWARE OF THAT? AND THAT PART I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT YOU CAN DO YOU ATTEND BOARD MEETINGS. I DO. OK, LET'S LOOK AT EXHIBIT EIGHT. AND THAT'S IN YOUR BINDER. YES. AND DO YOU HAVE THAT BEFORE YOU SIR, I DO AND ARE THOSE THE MEETINGS OF THE, UM THE LOUISVILLE HEALTH CARE CEO COUNCIL. I'M SORRY. ONE MORE TIME. ARE THOSE THE MINUTES OF THE CEO HAPPILY, SO YES. OK, UM MOVE THE ADMISSION OF EXHIBIT EIGHT. NO OBJECTION. WOULD YOU LOOK AT THE NOVEMBER? CAN WE GET A COPY TO THE OH, I'M SORRY. YES. 
          AND MR WILLIAMS, WOULD YOU TURN IN INTO THAT EXHIBIT THAT'S ABOUT A YEAR'S WORTH OF MEDICINE AND TURN TO THE NOVEMBER 2022. MEETING MINUTES. WHERE MIGHT THAT BE AT IN THIS BINDER? I THINK THEY'RE CONSECUTIVE, SO JUST KEEP TURNING. DECEMBER 6TH 2021 THAT'S WHERE IT STARTS. AND WOULD YOU TURN FORWARD? TO NOVEMBER 2022. NOVEMBER 7TH 2022 IN FACT. OK AND WOULD YOU WOULD YOU READ THROUGH THAT AND VERIFY FOR ME THAT MR PAGE'S NAME DOESN'T APPEAR ANYWHERE? IN THE MINUTES OF THOSE OF THAT MEETING. DO YOU WANT ME TO READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY? I JUST WANT YOU TO BE SATISFIED WITH THE PROPOSITION THAT I'M OFFERING YOU THAT HIS NAME DOES NOT APPEAR. I'M NOT SAYING OK. NOW. WANT TO TURN TO A DIFFERENT SUBJECT. YOU WERE PART OF THE TEAM THAT WROTE THE GRANT IN JANUARY. 2022 FOR $9.2 MILLION YES, OK. AND WERE YOU AWARE THAT THE GRANT SCORED, UH, 29TH OUT OF 30 THAT WERE EVALUATED BY THE ACCELERATOR TEAM? NO, I FOUND OUT ABOUT THAT IN THE NEWS. UM DID YOU? DID YOU? LEARN EITHER AT THE TIME OR LATER IN THE NEWS 
          [01:55:07]
WHY IT SCORED SO LOWLY IN THEIR OPINION? UH, NO. WE'VE HEARD SOME TESTIMONY THAT PART OF THE REASON WAS THAT THE CEO C TEAM DIDN'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE WITH WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT THAT A LOT OF THE OTHER COMPETING AGENCIES HAVE. WERE YOU AWARE OF THAT? I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT, OK? AND ANOTHER REASON THAT WE HAVE HEARD IS THAT THE 1500 POSITIONS THAT WERE YOU WERE TRAINING FOR WOULD NOT BE HIGHER WAGE, FAMILY SUPPORTING JOBS. HAVE YOU HEARD THAT CRITICISM OF THE PROPOSAL? HAVE NOT. LET'S PULL UP. UM THEY'RE 40. THIS IS AN EXHIBIT THE RESPONDENTS 41 AND WE JUST LOOKED AT UM AND YOU SEE THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ONE COLUMN ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE RECRUIT AND FILL 1500 HEALTH CARE POSITIONS. YES OK, THOSE WERE, UH, TO BE PAID AT MEDIAN SALARY OF $31,200, RIGHT. THAT IS INCORRECT. IT WAS A MINIMUM AVERAGE IS WHAT THE LANGUAGE IN THE PROPOSAL STATED MINIMUM AVERAGE, OK? UM AT 31 200 IS $15 AN HOUR, RIGHT? I BELIEVE SO. 
          OK, THAT'S NOT A REGISTERED NURSE. REGISTERED NURSES MAKE CONSIDERABLY MORE THAN THAT, RIGHT? UH, REGISTERED NURSES DO. YES THAT'S A NURSE'S AID POSITION. IS THAT FAIR? UM IT'S CERTIFIED NURSING ASSISTANT. THERE ARE OTHER POSITIONS THAT ARE ENCOMPASSED WITHIN THAT, RIGHT, RIGHT. AND A $31,000. NURSES AID POSITION. UH, THE CRITICISM WAS WAS NOT A FAMILY SUPPORTING JOB. HAD YOU HEARD THAT? UH NO. THAT METRIC WAS ACTUALLY BASED OFF OF A LIVING WAGE CALCULATOR DEVELOPED BY MIT. OKAY? UM. YOU HAVE THE 1500 HEALTH CARE POSITIONS. LISTED ON THE LEFT HAND COLUMN. RIGHT? BUT THAT'S ALSO PART OF THE RIGHT HAND COLUMN, RIGHT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT WITH WRAPAROUNDS OR WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT IS IN BOTH OF THOSE. YES OK, SO THE 1500 JOBS AT A MINIMUM. AVERAGE OF 31 200 WAS IN BOTH PROPOSALS. I BELIEVE THAT IS CORRECT. AND ALSO THE 500 PARTICIPANTS IN THE HIGHER PAYING JOBS THROUGH CAREER PATHWAYS. UM, THAT WAS ABOUT INCREASING SOMEONE FROM 31 TO $15 AN HOUR JOB TO A $20 AN HOUR JOB, RIGHT? UH REAL QUICK JUST TO CLARIFY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MINIMUM AVERAGE AND WHAT THAT MEANS. THAT IS SIMPLY PUTTING A FLOOR ON THE LOWEST WAGE THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE WITHIN THIS. A LOT OF THE OCCUPATIONS THAT WE'RE TARGETING , UM, WERE CLOSER TO THE 17 AND $18 HOUR, UH, STARTING WAGES. 17 YES, SIR. AND THE, UM THAT WAS PART OF THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN TO COLUMN AS WELL RIGHT AND THAT I BELIEVE SO. YES, OK. NOW AS IT AS IT DEVELOPED IN, UM IN MARCH OF 2023 YOU YOU, UM SIGNED THE CONTRACTS. FOR THE GRANT PROPOSAL THAT HAD BEEN VOTED ON IN DECEMBER. IS THAT RIGHT? I? I BELIEVE IT WAS, UM APRIL. 1ST IS WHEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT THAT THE SAME DAY MY DAUGHTER WAS BORN. 
          UM SO MAR END OF MARCH EARLY APRIL TIME FRAME. IS WHEN THE CONTRACTS GOT FINALIZED, I. I BELIEVE SO. YES AND THERE WERE THREE CONTRACTS. I IS THAT RIGHT? YES, SIR. UM ONE WAS FOR RUSSELL STATION PROPOSAL. THAT WAS THE AMPED PROPOSAL, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT, AND THAT WAS FOR ABOUT $9 MILLION ROUGHLY AND THE SECOND CONTRACT WAS FOR, UH, VENTURE STUDIOS. THOSE WERE NEW BUSINESSES TO BE DEVELOPED. UM AND THAT WAS IN THE AMOUNT OF ABOUT $11 MILLION ROUGHLY, YES, OK, AND THE CEO C WAS ADMINISTERING BOTH OF THOSE CONTRACTS. RIGHT? YOU'RE THE BILLING AGENT. WE WERE THE FIDUCIARY LEAD ON ALL THREE OF THESE, UM, BUT THE RUSSELL 
          [02:00:02]
STATION PROJECT, ALTHOUGH YOU WERE THE, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE LEAD, REALLY? THE SUBSTANTIVE WORK WAS GOING TO BE DONE BY A ANT THAT THAT IS CORRECT. IS THAT RIGHT AND THE SAME WAY WITH THE SECOND CONTRACT FOR THE VENTURE STUDIOS? YOU WERE THE ADMINISTRATIVE LEAD, BUT THE SUBSTANTIVE WORK WOULD BE DONE BY, UH, THE URBAN LEAGUE AND OTHER PARTICIPANTS. I'M SORRY FOR THE VENTURE STUDIO. YEAH. THAT IS INCORRECT, OK? I. I ACTUALLY WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE THIRD ONE, THE LARGEST CONTRACT OF THE BUNCH FOR $19 MILLION THAT WAS THE ONE IN WHICH CEO C WAS THE ADMINISTRATIVELY BUT ALSO DOING THE WORK RIGHT? THAT WAS WHERE THE MAJORITY OF ACTIVITY FELL, THEN. OK, AND THE CONTRACTS THAT YOU THAT YOU SIGNED. LIST. WHAT THE PERFORMANCE. OBJECTIVES ARE FOR THE CONTRACTS. IS THAT RIGHT? YES, SIR. 
          AND THEY HAVE. NOW PUT PERFORMANCE INDICATORS. IS THAT RIGHT? YES SIR. OK, AND ONE OF THOSE WAS 1500 CANDIDATES RECRUITED. FOR HIGH DEMAND ENTRY LEVEL JOBS THAT EARN AN AVERAGE ANNUAL SALARY OF $31,200 OR $15 PER HOUR. IS THAT RIGHT? I? I BELIEVE SO BECAUSE THAT IN HERE AS WELL, IT IS. IT'S A EXHIBIT. UM, 35, IF YOU'D LIKE TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. 
          AND THE FORMAT. I THINK YOU'RE PROBABLY FAMILIAR WITH. THERE'S SOME BOILERPLATE. UM LANGUAGE IN THE CONTRACT FOR THE 1ST 10 PAGES OR SO AND BEHIND THAT ARE THE WORK PLANS THAT TALK ABOUT WHAT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE DONE. RIGHT? UH, YES, SIR. OK. UM MOVE THE ADMISSION OF EXHIBIT 35. 
          NO OBJECTION. ADMIT IT. SO WE'RE LOOKING HERE AT THE, UM PERFORMANCE INDICATOR, LOGIC MODELS AND A LITTLE FUR FURTHER DOWN ON THE PAGE AND ACTUALLY THE TOP OF THE NEXT PAGE. 
          WELL, WHILE WHILE WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THE RIGHT PAGE. YOU SEE THE OUTCOME OUTPUT PERFORMANCE MEASURES FOR 31,000 1500 JOBS AT AN AVERAGE SALARY OF 31,200. HERE WE GO. IS THAT RIGHT? UH, YES, OK. AND THEN, UM THIS IS NUMBER TWO IS PARTICIPANTS WHO COMPLETE UPSKILLING TRAINING PROGRAMS INCREASE EARNINGS TO AN AVERAGE OF 41 600 OR $20 PER HOUR. YES, AN AVERAGE OF AND WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME? THAT THOSE ARE NOT REALLY FAMILY SUPPORTING. INCOME LEVELS. NO, SIR. WHENEVER YOU THINK ABOUT FAMILY WAGES, AND, UH, LIFE SUSTAINING WAGES, THOSE ARE VERY MUCH MOVING TARGET DEPENDENT UPON A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT VARIABLES OF THE INDIVIDUAL. HOW MANY MEMBERS ARE IN THEIR HOUSEHOLD? HOW MANY INDIVIDUALS ARE WORKING THOSE SORTS OF THINGS? FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR IN KENTUCKY. THE POVERTY LEVEL IS $31,200 YOU AWARE OF THAT, SIR? I BELIEVE SO. YES, OK. SO YOU WERE TRAINING 1500 PEOPLE TO GET TO THE POVERTY LEVEL. THAT'S AN ARGUMENTATIVE. THIS IS CROSS EXAMINATION. THEY OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER. UH, WOULD YOU MIND 
          [02:05:04]
REPEATING THE QUESTION? WE'RE TRADING 1500 PEOPLE TO GET TO POVERTY LEVEL. UH, NO, SIR. WE WERE TRAINING INDIVIDUALS TO EARN AT LEAST A MINIMUM OF $31,200 A YEAR. WERE THERE OTHER JOBS THAT WERE GOING TO BE CREATED BY THIS GRANT? WE WOULD HOPE SO. IN FACT, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF JOBS THAT WOULD BE CREATED FOR PEOPLE EMPLOYED BY THE CEO. ISN'T THAT RIGHT? I NOT RE I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION. WELL, WE LOOKED AT A COMPLITED OANIZIONA CHART, AND THOSE WERE ALLEO WE HIREDOLKS FOR THE HEALTH CARE LAB AT THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS WERE NOT A PART OF THE CEO C. THEY WERE PART OF THE COALITION. OK SO COULD YOU LOOK TO ABOUT ANOTHER 10 PAGES INTO THE DOCUMENT. AND WE SEE THE BUDGET FOR THE FOR THE GRANT. 
          YOU SEE WHAT I'M LOOKING WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE, SIR. YES OK, AND IT IS THE BUDGET FOR WHAT THE MONEY IS GOING TO BE SPENT FOR. RIGHT YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT, AND THE FIRST CATEGORY IS PERSONNEL. IS THAT RIGHT? IT IS AND THE FIRST ONE THERE IS AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR. RIGHT? UH, YES. UM, AND IT TELLS THAT PERSON'S TITLE AND ALSO EXPLAINS THE SALARY THAT'S GOING TO BE PAID TO THAT PERSON. RIGHT IT DOES. SO YOU'RE GONNA CREATE AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR POSITION AND THAT PERSON IS GOING TO BE PAID 324,812 OVER THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE PROGRAM. IN HEALTH CARE. 
          RECRUITER THERE ARE GOING TO BE TWO OF THOSE, RIGHT? YES, SIR. THAT PERSON IS GOING TO BE PAID 263 961? NO SIR. THAT WOULD BE TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO WOULD BE EARNING THAT ANNUAL OR THAT SALARY OVER THE LIFE OF THE GRANT. OK, SO OVER $100,000 FOR EACH OF THEM OVER THE LIFE OF THE GRANT. AND THEN CAREER ADVISORS. DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION AND TRAINING. CONTROLLER DIRECTOR OF MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS. AND THEN A MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS SPECIALIST. IS THAT RIGHT? UH, YES, SIR. SO ABOUT A MILLION FIVE. WE JUST YOUR EMPLOYEE SALARIES, RIGHT? YES, SIR, WITH THE AGAIN THE DURATION OF THE GRANT. AND THEN ANOTHER. 
          $379,000 FOR FRINGE BENEFITS FOR THOSE PEOPLE. TRUE. THAT IS I BELIEVE THAT IS CORRECT. AND THEN IF YOU LOOK TO THE THIRD PAGE. HERE. WE HAVE LINE ITEMS THAT ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO DO WORKFORCE MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS, HEALTHCARE, WORKFORCE TRAINING AND UPSKILLING. THOSE YOU'RE GOING TO OUTSOURCE. IS THAT RIGHT? UH, YES, SIR. YOU'RE GOING TO HIRE OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THE ACTUAL TRAINING THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. WE WOULD BE HIRING AN ENGAGING OTHER ORGANIZATIONS WHO ALREADY HAVE DEMONSTRATED SUCCESSES IN THESE AREAS. YES WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE AND SUCCESS IN TRAINING PEOPLE FOR WORKFORCE IMPROVEMENTS. ONE OF THE THEMES FOR THIS ENTIRE WORK IS THAT, UH, WE HAVE A VERY ESTABLISHED WORKFORCE ECOSYSTEM AT A REGIONAL LEVEL, AND THE CHALLENGES IS THAT MANY CASES THOSE ORGANIZATIONS WORK IN SILOS, WHICH OFTEN TO REPEAT AND DUPLICATED EFFORTS. INSTEAD OF DOING THAT. WE WANTED TO ENGAGE THOSE ORGANIZATIONS AND ORIENT THEM TOWARDS THE SHARED VISION. 
          WE'VE SEEN DOCUMENTS, MISTER, UM WILLIAMS THAT YOU RECEIVED A BONUS IN MARCH. 2023. I DID. IN THE AMOUNT OF $35,000 YES. AND THIS YORK DAY HAD A BONUS OF 100 AND $50,000. I'M NOT SURE WHAT HER BONUS IS, AND WAS THAT FOR YOUR PERFORMANCE IN THE PRIOR YEAR? UH, YOU'RE UP TO MARCH. 
          [02:10:04]
UH, YES, SIR, INCLUDING OBTAINING A $40 MILLION GRANT. NO SIR. THE ACQUISITION OF THIS AGREEMENT WAS NOT RELATED TO MY BONUS. MHM. YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU GOT THE LARGEST GRANT IN THE HISTORY OF THE CEO. AND YOUR BONUS DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT. UH NO, SIR. THOSE ARE MY ANNUAL BONUSES DETERMINED BY OUR PRES AND CEO. THAT IS THE SAME BONUS THAT I NEGOTIATED BACK IN 2021. AND IT HAD NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH GETTING A $40. MILLION GRANT. NO, SIR. THAT'S ALL MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, MR SMITH READER. 
          MR WILLIAMS. I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FOR YOU, MR WICKER. WALKED YOU THROUGH. ONE OF THE, UM I THINK THE FORMAL NAME OF IT IS A SUB SUB GRANT AGREEMENT IS SOMETHING THAT SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES THAT THE CEO COUNCIL ENTERED INTO WITH THE CITY TO IMPLEMENT THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN. GRANT IS THAT ACCURATE? THAT IS ACCURATE, AND HE WALKED YOU THROUGH SOME OF THE BUDGETING COMPONENTS OF THAT $19 MILLION GRANT. DID METRO GOVERNMENT APPROVE AND SIGN THAT AGREEMENT WITH THE CEO COUNCIL. YES, OK. AND YOU MENTIONED THAT, UH, SOME OF THE, UH, SOME OF THE COMPENSATION THERE WAS A BUDGET IN THOSE GRANTS WAS FOR THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE PROJECT. UH DO YOU REMEMBER THAT TESTIMONY I DO AND IN SOME CASES WAS THAT OVER THE COURSE OF 22 OR THREE YEARS THAT THAT WAS OVER THE COURSE OF, UH, TWO FULL YEARS? YES, OK. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, UM WE HAVE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE IN Q AGAIN, COLLEAGUES JUST A REMINDER. IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO UNCOVER NEW EVIDENCE, MAKE EITHER SIDE'S CASE FOR THEM OR STATE POSITIONS OR OPINIONS. A ROLL IN QUESTION IS TO CLARIFY ANYTHING THAT, UH, MAY BE UNCLEAR THAT MR WILLIAMS HAS TESTIFIED TO. UM MR ROSE. I'M GONNA START WITH A QUESTION, ACTUALLY, UH, THIS IS RELATED TO THE ORG CHART. IF YOU COULD JUST CLARIFY, UM THERE'S A DIRECTOR OF INNOVATION THAT'S LISTED. CAN YOU SPEAK TO HOW THAT WE HEARD EARLIER TESTIMONY THAT IN HIS CONSULTANCY ROLE, COUNCILMAN ARGENTINA PLAYED THE ROLE AS CHAIRING. UM I'LL FORGET THE EXACT NAME OF IT, BUT SOMETHING TO THE EXTENT OF THE INNOVATION COALITION ARE LEADING, UM, INNOVATION EFFORTS. CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE IS THAT THE SAME ROLE OR THOSE DIFFERENT ROLES IF THEY'RE DIFFERENT? WHAT WHAT ARE THEY? UM IF YOU COULD JUST HELP PROVIDE SOME CLARITY THERE, PLEASE. ABSOLUTELY UH, SO IN ANTHONY'S ROLE HE WAS THE STAFF LEAD ON WHAT IS KNOWN AS OUR INNOVATION COMMITTEE, WHICH SIMPLY PUT IS ENGAGING ALL OUR CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICERS, CHIEF STRATEGY OFFICERS, CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICERS THROUGHOUT ALL OF OUR ORGANIZATIONS, UH, IN HIS ROLE AS A FACILITATE THAT THOSE GROUP MEETINGS SPECIFICALLY TO OVERSEE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF OUR INNOVATION EFFORTS. UH, THE HEALTH CARE INNOVATION ENGINE MODEL I TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. UH, AS A COMPONENT OF THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, WE ARE LEVERAGING THESE GRANT FUNDS AS STATED IN THE AGREEMENT TO ESTABLISH A VENTURE STUDIO AND SO IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT AND EXECUTE ON THAT VENTURE STUDIO, WE WERE HIRING AN ADDITIONAL PERSON TO SPECIFICALLY OVERSEE THOSE EFFORTS. UM, THEY WERE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROLES. 
          THANK YOU, COUNCILOR REED. THANK YOU, MR PRESIDENT. UH, JUST TO CLARIFY THE $31,000 THAT THAT WAS MENTIONED THAT THAT STARTED ENTRY LEVEL SALARY CORRECT THAT DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT. VERY SIMILAR. I WOULD SAY TO SOMEBODY STARTING ON AT THE POLICE FORCE AT THE ENTRY LEVEL SALARY, CORRECT. YES, SIR. IT IS. OK, THANK YOU. COUNCILOR H. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'VE JUST GOT ONE SIMPLE QUESTION. UM AT WHAT POINT DID YOU FIRST HEAR MR PINI'S NAME BROUGHT UP AS A POSSIBLE? UH, MEMBER OF THE EOC. UH, I BELIEVE THAT AND AGAIN TERRIBLE WITH DATES AND IT WAS A LITTLE BIT AGO, BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS RIGHT BEFORE HE STARTED. LIKE RIGHT? I THINK NOVEMBER MAYBE THANK YOU. THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DON'T SEE ANYBODY IN QUEUE IN THE ROOM. ANYBODY ONLINE IF YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO QUEUE IN, IF YOU WANT TO RAISE YOUR HAND SEEING NO ONE, MR WILLIAMS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OH, I'M SORRY. BECAUSE OK, MR WILLIAMS. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY. THANK YOU ALL HAVE A GOOD DAY. MR SMITH, YOUR NEXT WITNESS. CHAIR WINKLER. 
          COUNCILMAN P ARGENTI RESTS. THANK YOU, MR SMITH. COLLEAGUES. WE AT THIS POINT HAVE REACHED 
          [02:15:07]
THE CONCLUSION EXCEPT FOR PEN. UH, CLOSING ARGUMENTS. HOWEVER BEFORE WE CAN DO CLOSING ARGUMENTS, THERE ARE SOME MATTERS BEFORE THE COURT THAT NEED TO BE DECIDED, PARTICULARLY RELATED TO JURY INSTRUCTIONS, UM , GIVEN SOME BACK AND FORTH LAST EVENING. IT'S MY BELIEF THAT WE WILL NEED TO SOME TIME TO ARGUE THOSE POSITIONS AND THEN THE COURT WILL NEED TO CONSIDER THOSE ARGUMENTS. UM AND RENDER A DECISION ON JURY INSTRUCTIONS, AND THOSE HAVE TO BE PRIOR TO CLOSING ARGUMENTS. IT'S UNCLEAR HOW LONG THAT WILL TAKE, AND I DON'T WANT TO ASK YOU TO SORT OF STICK AROUND FOR THE NEXT TWO OR THREE HOURS. AND MAYBE WE GET TOGETHER. MAYBE WE DON'T. UM SO I WILL ADJOURN YOU. I WON'T ADJOURN THE COURT BECAUSE WE WILL CONTINUE THESE ARGUMENTS. 
          BUT I WILL ADJOURN YOU FOR TODAY . UM WE WILL THEN WORK. UM WITH THOSE WHO HAVE FIRST OF ALL, LET ME THANK EVERYBODY FOR PRIORITIZING THIS. UH, I KNOW IT'S NOT EASY TO COME DURING THE WORK DAY. UM WE WILL HAVE THE CLERK REACH OUT TO THOSE THAT HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO ATTEND, UH, TO WORK ON THE ATTESTATIONS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. UM, IT IS THE COURT'S DESIRE TO SCHEDULE CLOSING ARGUMENTS AND DELIBERATIONS AS QUICKLY AS IS REASONABLY POSSIBLE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL MEMBERS THAT NEED TO WATCH, YOU KNOW, GIVE. LET'S CALL IT 14 HOURS. 12 HOURS OF, UM, HEARINGS OVER THE LAST TWO DAYS, SO, UM, WE WILL REACH BACK OUT AS QUICKLY. UH, LATER THIS WEEK OR TOMORROW. HOPEFULLY UH, WITH A FINAL DATE FOR CLOSING ARGUMENTS AND DELIBERATIONS, I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR I WOULD REMIND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT THAT YOU ARE NOT TO READ NEWSPAPERS, LISTEN TO RADIO ACCOUNTS OR WATCH ANY TELEVISION ACCOUNTS PERTAINING TO THIS HEARING. DO NOT CONDUCT YOUR OWN INVESTIGATION PERTAINING TO THIS HEARING, DO NOT UNDERTAKE ANY CASE RELATED RESEARCH, INCLUDING THE USE OF INTERNET AND ANY SOCIAL MEDIA, UH, BUT NOT LIMITED SOCIAL NETWORKING SITES. THAT'S UH YES, COUNCILMAN. MR. PRESIDENT IF I COULD JUST AND I KNOW YOU DON'T HAVE A SCIENTIFIC ANSWER. OF THE HOUR. BUT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WE WILL WRAP THIS UP THIS WEEK? I CANNOT ANSWER THAT IN THIS MOMENT. SO I SO THE ANSWER IS THAT YOU DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THIS WEEK OR NEXT WEEK, AND WE'RE WRAPPING UP RIGHT NOW. ON TUESDAY, I. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA BE THURSDAY, FRIDAY OR MONDAY. THAT'S CORRECT AND THAT I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE REMAINING ATTESTATIONS THAT NEED TO BE DONE. WHEN CAN PEOPLE REASONABLY DO THOSE? UM, SO I JUST DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER. EXACTLY UH, BUT IT IS OUR GOAL TO GET IT DONE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TO CONTINUE. LET ME JUST FOLLOW UP, PLEASE. SO IN MY HEARING THAT MONDAY WOULD PROBABLY BE WORST. CASE SCENARIO , AND WE AND I SAY WORST CASE SCENARIO IN IN A TIMING FRAME. I THINK THERE IS IT. IT I THINK THERE IS NO CHANCE IT IS ANY LATER THAN THAT. I THINK THAT THAT GIVES THEM LIKE BY THAT POINT, YOU HAVE REASONABLY HAD ENOUGH TIME TO WATCH ANYTHING. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT'S NECESSARILY GOING TO BE THAT LONG. BUT IT IT IS UNFATHOMABLE THAT IT WOULD BE ANY LATER. MR PRESIDENT. I HAVE A QUESTION AS WELL. NOT TO QUESTION YOUR JUDGMENT. I TOO HAVE, UM CONCERNS AROUND OUR SCHEDULING, AND I REALLY MOVED A LOT OF THINGS AROUND TO BE ABLE TO BE PRESENT. I WANTED JUST TO UNDERSTAND THE REASONING FOR ENDING SO EARLY TODAY. AND AS TOMORROW I FOR OVER A MONTH AND A HALF, WE'VE HAD A SCHEDULE FOR, UH, A PRESS CONFERENCE FROM 10 TO 12, WHICH I AM PREPARED TO LEAVE HERE AT 10 TO GO DO THAT PRESS CONFERENCE, WHICH IS ON THE FIRST FLOOR. AND COME BACK, BUT I ALSO AM COMMITTED. I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT WHAT WAS THE REASONING FOR TODAY TO AT LEAST GET THE CLOSINGS NOT GET THE CLOSING STATEMENTS? SURE SO THE REASON WE'RE ENDING NOW IS BECAUSE BOTH SIDES HAVE WRAPPED, UM AND THERE WAS NO WAY OF KNOWING HOW LONG AND HOW MANY WITNESSES, UH, THE DEFENSE WAS GONNA CALL SO I MEAN, THAT IS UP TO THE DEFENSE. THE REASON THAT WE CANNOT ARGUE CLOSING ARGUMENTS IS BECAUSE THERE IS SIGNIFICANT DISCUSSION THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN RELATED TO THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS. THERE ARE MATTERS OF LAW THAT NEED TO BE CONSIDERED BY THE COURT BEFORE FINALIZING THOSE INSTRUCTIONS. UH AND IT IS UNCLEAR AT THIS MOMENT. WILL THAT TAKE US 30 MINUTES? WILL IT TAKE US THREE HOURS? WILL IT TAKE US SIX HOURS TO FIGURE THAT OUT? UH, AND SO I CANNOT PROVIDE YOU ADDITIONAL DIRECTION AT THIS MOMENT. UM I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT WE WILL NOT MEET TOMORROW. JUST GIVEN, UM THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO ATTEND THE LAST TWO DAYS AND THE NEED FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO WATCH. YOU KNOW, 12 TO 13 HOURS OF TESTIMONY, SO WE'RE CONFIDENT YOU WILL NOT BE NEEDED TOMORROW. UM, AGAIN, MY 
          [02:20:02]
OFFICE WILL REACH OUT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE TO FIGURE OUT UH WHAT WE CAN DO AND PART OF THAT RELATES TO TALKING TO THE CLERK. UNDERSTANDING WHAT ATTESTATION I GET OUT OF STATE. SO I. I JUST DON'T HAVE THAT SUMMARY IN FRONT CHAIR WINKLE. I DO NEED TO JUST STATE. UH, STATE AN OBJECTION FOR THE RECORD, AND WE ADVISED YESTERDAY THAT WE WOULD IN ALL LIKELIHOOD BE WRAPPING UP THIS MORNING AND WE'D BE PREPARED TO, UH TO, UH, PRESENT OUR CLOSING STATEMENTS. UH, I HAD ASKED FOR JURY INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE COURT AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS HEARING AND NOT GOTTEN ANY UNTIL LAST NIGHT. UM SO WE HAVE TAKEN THE POSITION AND WE HAVE STATED REPEATEDLY THAT WE WOULD LIKE FOR THIS PROCESS TO BE BROUGHT TO A CONCLUSION AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, IN PART BECAUSE IN LARGE PART, BECAUSE, UH, THIS MATTER CONTINUES TO HANG OVER COUNCILMAN PINI'S HEAD, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PUSHED TO TRY TO GET THIS DONE. UH AND I JUST WANT TO STATE FOR THE RECORD THAT WE OBJECT TO PUSHING THIS INTO NEXT WEEK BECAUSE WE HAVE TRIED TO GET IN A POSITION TO WHERE EVEN AS SOON AS TODAY, WE COULD WE COULD DELIVER OUR CLOSING STATEMENTS. AFTER BEING HEARD ON THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS, WHICH WE DO HAVE SOME ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS. UM BUT WE WOULD BE PREPARED TO DO SO TODAY. THE COURT SHARES YOUR DESIRE. COUNCILOR KNIGHT. THANK YOU, MR PRESIDENT. WOULD IT BE SAFE TO SAY WE WON'T BE HERE THURSDAY BECAUSE OF COUNSEL. I CAN'T ANSWER THAT DEFENDANT. I MEAN, WE CERTAINLY HAVE COUNSEL, RIGHT? UH, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION DEFINITIVELY, I. I THINK WE WILL HAVE MORE DIRECTION LATER TODAY OR TOMORROW. THANK YOU, SIR. COLLEAGUES THANK YOU AGAIN, UM, COUNCIL IF WE COULD MAYBE RECESS FOR NINE MINUTES FOR A BIO BREAK , AND THEN, UH, WE CAN GET BACK TOGETHER AND HEAR ARGUMENTS ON JURY INSTRUCTIONS, OK? MR WICKER . THESE WERE HANDED TO US. IN ADDITION BUT NOT ENTERED INTO SO YOU CAN HAVE YOUR BACK. 
          SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, EVERYONE ON VIDEO CAN LOG OFF AND GO ABOUT THEIR DAY. YES, MA'AM. OK? HAVE A GOOD ONE. Y'ALL. THE. 
          DID YOU GET THE NEWS? OH, OK. WE LIKE TO WATCH AND I WAS ONLY ABLE TO WATCH LIVE. I COME BACK. 
          [02:25:09]
I. YOU. 
          THAT. YES, WHETHER OR NOT THEY RIGHT? THANK YOU. 
          UM. 
          NO. 
          [02:38:35]
OK? I THINK. 
          [02:41:35]
YEAH. 
          [2. ID 24-0106     Discussion of Other Matters]
          [02:52:04]
CALL US BACK TO ORDER AGAIN. APPRECIATE UH, YOUR PATIENCE AS WE SORT OF DISCUSSED THE SOME 
          [02:52:08]
PIECES HERE. UM MISTER WICKER. YOU HAVE TO GUT THE BURDEN SO I WILL START WITH YOU ON, UM ANY 
          [02:52:18]
ARGUMENTS RELATED TO, UH, THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS. I KNOW YOU SENT A BRIEF UM, I KNOW MR SMITH ALSO FILED. UM I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO ADDRESS BOTH OF THOSE PIECES. YES, SIR. YOUR MIC'S NOT ON. I THOUGHT THE CHAIRS JURY INSTRUCTIONS WERE GENERALLY FINE. UM AND THE PROPER WAY TO SET THE QUESTION TO THE COUNCIL. UH, THE ONE THING THAT WAS MISSING WAS AN INSTRUCTION ON UM, HOW TO UNDERSTAND AND EVALUATE. THE AMENDMENT. AND THAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE COUNCIL'S INSTRUCTIONS. UM I'M ON THE SIXTH CIRCUIT PATTERN JURY INSTRUCTION COMMITTEE AND HAVE BEEN FOR TWO TERMS AND WHAT WE DO IS WRITE JURY INSTRUCTIONS FOR CRIMINAL CASES. AND AN IMPORTANT PART OF THAT IS TO EXPLAIN TO THE JURY ANY UNUSUAL EVIDENTIARY ISSUES. SO WE EXPLAINED TO THE JURY HOW TO EVALUATE EXPERT TESTIMONY HOW TO EVALUATE TESTIMONY OF A COOPERATING WITNESS ANYTHING THAT'S KIND OF OUTSIDE THE NORM OF WHAT A JURY MIGHT KNOW ALREADY, AND THIS IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT UM, MAY NOT BE VERY WELL UNDERSTOOD BY THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. WE ARE ENTITLED TO AN ADVERSE INFERENCE AND WE'RE ENTITLED TO TELL THE JURY WHAT THAT MEANS. SO THAT'S WHY WE ASKED FOR THAT INSTRUCTION. THE CHAIR ON THAT, MR SMITH SORRY. ON THAT ISSUE. I THINK THAT THE, UM THE INSTRUCTIONS IS DRAFTED. I THINK THEY TRY TO ADDRESS THAT HERE, UH, ON PAGE THREE. UM I MEAN, BEGINNING WITH THE PARAGRAPH IS THE SPECIAL DUTY OF THE COUNSEL COURT. THE VERY END OF THAT, PARAGRAPH SAYS. LIKEWISE WHILE YOU MAY CONSIDER THE FACT THAT A PARTY CHOSE NOT TO TESTIFY, YOU MAY NOT BASE YOUR DECISION SOLELY ON THAT FACT. I THINK THAT'S GETTING TO WHAT MR WHIPPER IS ESSENTIALLY ADDRESSING ITS REALLY POSSIBLE, UH, FACTOR FOR THE JURY, BUT, UH, BUT NO FRING THEM TO MAKE ANY ANY INFERENCE. UH, SO I THINK IT'S ALREADY INCORPORATED INTO THE INSTRUCTIONS AS DRAFTED. WILL THE ADVERSE INFERENCE IS DIFFERENT. IT'S VERY DIFFERENT. IT'S NOT UM, IT'S ACTUALLY THE OPPOSITE. UM CAN YOU PULL YOUR MICROPHONE CLOSER, MR. THE, UM THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY THAT THAT PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE HAVE TO, UM TO TESTIFY. UM I'M TRYING TO FIND THAT SECTION. BUT THE ADVERSE INFERENCE IS DIFFERENT. 
          [02:55:04]
IT MEANS THAT THE FACT THAT SOMEBODY DID NOT TESTIFY. AND DID NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS ON THAT BASIS OF 1/5 AMENDMENT PRIVILEGE . UH, IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THEY CAN CONSIDER. THEY CAN CONSIDER IT AS, UM, A YES ANSWER TO ALL THOSE QUESTIONS. THAT'S THE LAW. AND WE OUGHT TO TELL THEM THAT I THINK IT ALREADY SAYS THAT YOU MAY CONSIDER THE FACT THAT PARTY CHOSE NOT TO TESTIFY. I THINK THAT'S ALREADY REFLECTED IN THE IN THE INSTRUCTIONS. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY MORE. THAT'S BUT IT NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED. BUT IT DOESN'T SAY HOW YOU CONSIDER THAT AND WHAT WHAT THE LAW IS THAT YOU CONSIDER IT BY YOU CAN TAKE AN ADVERSE INFERENCE AND AN IN, UM ASSUME THAT THE ANSWER WOULD HAVE BEEN YES TO ALL THE QUESTIONS. THAT'S THAT'S NOT IN THERE, AND WE NEED TO TELL THE JURY THAT AND I GUESS WHAT I WOULD RESPOND TO THAT IS THAT IS CERTAINLY AN ARGUMENT THAT MR WICKER CAN MAKE IN HIS CLOSING ARGUMENT. THERE'S CERTAINLY ENOUGH IN THIS INSTRUCTION TO ALLOW HIM TO MAKE THAT ARGUMENT ALL HE WANTS IN HIS CLOSING ARGUMENT. I DON'T BELIEVE IT NEEDS TO BE SAID ANYMORE. AND YOU KNOW, AS A GENERAL MATTER THAT CAN YOU KNOW KENTUCKY FOLLOWS THE BARE BONES APPROACH TO JURY INSTRUCTIONS. SO AGAIN, I THINK THAT THIS ADEQUATELY AND SUFFICIENTLY UH YOU KNOW, LAYS OUT THE LAW FOR THE JURY TO CONSIDER, AND IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO EMBELLISH ANYMORE THAN WHAT IS ALREADY IN THESE JURY INSTRUCTIONS. IT'S A POINT OF LAW. THAT THE JURY SHOULD KNOW ABOUT. IT'S NOT IN THE INSTRUCTIONS, IT'S IMPORTANT. 
          AND IT SHOULD BE IN THE IN THE INSTRUCTIONS. OTHERWISE THEY DON'T KNOW HOW THE LAW WORKS. 
          YEAH, MR SMITH. IT IS THE COURT'S OPINION THAT WE SHOULD BE GUIDED BY CASE LAW TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS. YOU KNOW, MR WICKER IS SORT OF CITED A NUMBER OF EXAMPLES. DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTARY? OTHER THAN YOU THINK IT'S SUFFICIENT? UH, THAT WOULD REFUTE HIS ARGUMENT. I MEAN, WE'VE STATED OUR POSITION AND OUR OBJECTION IS ON THE RECORD. BUT THERE'S NO CASE LAW THAT YOU WOULD POINT TO THAT SUPPORTS YOUR POSITION. I DON'T HAVE ANY CASE LAW TO SAY TO YOU NOW. 
          THANK YOU. MR WICKER. DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL ARGUMENTS OUTSIDE OF, UM WHAT YOU JUST PRESENTED NOT RELATED TO THIS SPECIFIC PIECE, BUT AROUND THE INSTRUCTIONS GENERALLY, UM SO I'VE HAD ONLY A LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME TO REVIEW THE INSTRUCTIONS SUBMITTED BY THE RESPONDENT, UM SO I'VE NOT HAD A CHANCE TO GO THROUGH THEM CAREFULLY AND SEE IF THERE ARE DIFFERENCES THAN WHAT THE CHAIRS, INSTRUCTIONS PROVIDED CERTAINLY THE FORMATTING AND THE DIVIDING INTO PARAGRAPHS IS DIFFERENT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S SUBSTANTIVE DIFFERENCE. 
          SO MAYBE WE'LL LET THE RESPONDENT MAKE HIS ARGUMENT ON THE CHANGES TO THE INSTRUCTIONS AND THEN YOU CAN RESPOND. I WAS REALLY ASKING. DO YOU HAVE ANY ANY OTHER PROACTIVE INSTRUCTION? OK, PERFECT. MR SMITH, SO THERE'S ONE I THINK, F FOUNDATIONAL OR FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE THAT THAT WE HAVE, UH, WANT TO POINT OUT, UH, IN OBJECTING TO THE INSTRUCTIONS AS THEY ARE DRAFTED, AND THEN THERE ARE A COUPLE OF, UH, ISSUES THAT ARE RELATIVELY, UM I DON'T WANNA SAY MINOR BUT NOT AS CONSEQUENTIAL BUT IN IN OUR VIEW IS STILL IMPORTANT. BUT LET ME LET ME ADDRESS THIS THIS FIRST ISSUE, UH AND IT I THINK IT GOES TO THE BASIC APPROACH THAT THE INSTRUCTIONS FOLLOW. AND IN THE IN KENTUCKY UH, AND I'M QUOTING FROM WEBSTER VERSUS COMMONWEALTH , 508 SOUTHWEST 2ND 33. THAT'S THE KENTUCKY COURT OF APPEALS CASE FROM 1974. THE COURT THERE SAID THE FUNCTION OF INSTRUCTIONS IN THIS JURISDICTION IS ONLY TO STATE WHAT THE JURY MUST BELIEVE FROM THE EVIDENCE IN ORDER TO RETURN A VERDICT IN FAVOR OF THE PARTY WHO BEARS THE BURDEN OF PROOF. THAT'S THE BASIC APPROACH THAT COURTS IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY FOLLOW WHEN INSTRUCTING JURIES IN BOTH CRIMINAL AND CIVIL MATTERS. AND SO IT'S ALMOST UNIVERSALLY THE CASE WHEN YOU REVIEW YOUR INSTRUCTIONS. THAT THE COURT WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, FOR YOU TO FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY ON OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. LET'S JUST TAKE SOMETHING OUT OF YOU KNOW AN EXAMPLE HYPOTHETICAL. YOU MUST BELIEVE FROM THE EVIDENCE THE FOLLOWING AND THEN IT WOULD LAY OUT THE ELEMENTS OF THAT CHARGE SO THAT THEY KNOW WHAT STANDARD THEY ARE EVALUATING THE EVIDENCE FROM AND THEN YOU GO TO THE VERDICT FORM, AND IT SAYS, DO 
          [03:00:02]
YOU? YOU KNOW, WE BELIEVE YOU KNOW THAT THAT THEY PROVE THAT THAT CHARGE, BUT IT PROVIDES SPECIFIC GUIDANCE TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT THE LAW IS THAT THEY'RE BEING ASKED TO APPLY. 
          AND WHAT THESE WHAT THESE INSTRUCTIONS DON'T DO. IS ACTUALLY PROVIDE ANY INSTRUCTION AS TO WHAT IS THE LAW THAT THE MEMBERS OF THE JURY ARE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW WHEN DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT COUNCILMAN PITI? UH IS GUILTY OF ANY OF ANY MISCONDUCT. I THINK IT'S BUT IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF FORM. I DON'T WANT TO SUGGEST THAT THIS IS SIMPLY A MATTER OF FORM OVER SUBSTANCE, THE SUBSTANCE AND THE WAY THAT THE INSTRUCTIONS AS DRAFTED. ARE PROBLEMATIC. IS IT? IS IT ACTUALLY THERE IS AN ABSENCE OF ANY STANDARD. BY WHICH THE MEMBERS OF THE JURY ARE MEANT TO EN ENGAGE, ENGAGE IN ANALYSIS. AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE CHARGING COMMITTEE HAS PROVEN MISCONDUCT. THE ONLY DEFINITION THERE'S ONLY TWO DEFINITIONS OF LAW IN THESE INSTRUCTIONS, MISCONDUCT. AND WILLFUL NEGLECT. THAT'S IT. THE CHARGING COMMITTEE HAS HAS ALLEGED THAT COUNCILMAN PAGNI ENGAGED IN MISCONDUCT BY VIOLATING CERTAIN STANDARDS OF CONDUCT SET FORTH IN LAW. THOSE ARE NOWHERE REFERENCED IN THIS, BUT LET ME AND I AND I KNOW THAT I KNOW YOU GOT A COMMENT ON THAT. BUT JUST TO COMPLETE THAT THOUGHT, THE PRO THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM AND THE PREJUDICE TO COUNCILMAN PIERINI HERE IS NOT ONLY THE ABSENCE OF ANY LEGAL STANDARD, BUT WHAT THIS DOES IS THE INSTRUCTIONS ACTUALLY RECITE THE ALLEGATIONS. OF THE CHARGING COMMITTEE. THAT WERE SET FORTH IN THE COMPLAINT. AND THEY NOT ONLY CITE THEM ONCE THEY CITE THEM AGAIN, AND THEN THEY ESSENTIALLY THEY ESSENTIALLY TELL THE JURY IF I READ IT CORRECTLY, IT'S THE WAY THAT I READ IT IS THEY TELL THE JURY, YOU KNOW, DO YOU? YOU KNOW, DO YOU BELIEVE FROM THE EVIDENCE THAT THOSE THAT THAT THE ALLEGATIONS AS OUT THE COUNCIL PENTTI COMMITTED COMMITTED MISCONDUCT AS OUTLINED IN THAT INTERROGATION, IT ALMOST PRESUMES. THAT THE THAT THE CHARGING COMMITTEE HAS PROVEN THAT CASE. AS I READ IT, THAT'S PROBLEMATIC IN AND OF ITSELF, BUT THE GREATER PROBLEM WELL, AT LEAST AN EQUAL PROBLEM IS THAT IT IS ESSENTIALLY PARODYING. THE COMPLAINT. IT'S ALMOST NEVER THE CASE. WHERE THE ACTUALLY IN NO CIRCUMSTANCE. DOES THE JURY EVER GET TO TAKE THE COMPLAINT INTO THE JURY ROOM WITH HIM, NEVER, PERIOD NEVER HAPPENS. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. THEY CAN MAKE ANY ARGUMENT IN CLOSING CLOSING STATEMENT, BUT FOR ESSENTIALLY TO COPY AND PASTE THE ALLEGATIONS INTO THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS. WHAT I THINK I THINK WOULD BE A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF PREJUDICING COUNCIL PIN BY SUGGESTING THAT THOSE ALLEGATIONS HAVE ANY WEIGHT IN AND OF THEMSELVES AND THAT'S WHY AGAIN, I. I COME BACK TO THIS NOTION THAT, UM, THE INSTRUCTIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO INSTRUCT THE LAW. NOT INSTRUCT THE ALLEGATIONS. INSTRUCT THE LAW. YOU'RE TO DETERMINE WHETHER YOU KNOW. LET'S TAKE COUNT ONE WHETHER THE CHARGING COMMITTEE HAS SHOWN FROM THE EVIDENCE THAT COUNCILMAN TINI COMMITTED MISCONDUCT BY VIOLATING A CERTAIN YOU KNOW, STANDARD SET FORTH IN THE CODE OF ETHICS AND THEN LAY OUT. WHAT ARE THE ELEMENTS THAT HAVE TO BE SHOWN? OTHERWISE THIS IS A STANDARD LESS AND ARBITRARY EXERCISE THAT WE'RE ENGAGING IN. AND THAT'S FUNDAMENTALLY WHAT MISCONDUCT IS . I MEAN, THIS GETS A LITTLE BIT BACK TO THE DEFINITION OF MISCONDUCT AND MISCONDUCT HAS TO BE TETHERED TO A VIOLATION OF SOME KNOWN AND OBJECTIVE STANDARD OF CONDUCT IMPOSED BY LAW. SO MR SMITH, LET ME ASK YOU AND I GUESS THERE'S SORT OF TWO QUESTIONS THAT I WOULD ASK NUMBER ONE. THE LAW THAT THE COUNCIL COURT WILL BE DECIDING ON IS 67 C 0.1 43 RIGHT, WHICH IS THE QUESTION OF MISCONDUCT OR WILLFUL NEGLECT. THE SECOND POINT OF THAT IS IN THE ARGUMENTS THAT YOU SENT TO THE COURT. UM YOU KNOW, YOU MADE SUGGESTIONS ON WHAT TO ADD, RIGHT. BUT YOU DID NOT SUGGEST ADDING THAT SAME LANGUAGE FOR THE PERJURY STANDARD AND THE HONEST SERVICES LAW. UH AND I ALSO BELIEVE YOU DIDN'T ADD IT FOR COUNTS THREE AND SEVEN. SO UM, I COULD BE MISTAKEN, BUT I THINK THAT YOU JUST JUST FOR THE RECORD, I DID. AT LEAST WHAT I COPIED. AND I THINK THIS IS WHAT I SENT YOU ALL LAST NIGHT DOES INCLUDE AN INSTRUCTION FOR COUNT EIGHT MISCONDUCT FOR PERJURY, WHICH TRACKS YOU KNOW THE CRIMINAL STATUTE THAT IS CITED IN THE COMPLAINT. UM WITH REGARD TO THE OTHER TWO CHARGES, COUNT THREE. IS IT NOT SHOWING WAS IT NOT IN THERE? LIKE, BUT IT'S NOT I. I GUESS THE A COPY BECAUSE WHAT I HAVE IS LIKE A ONE SENTENCE YOU MAY MAKE A. NO THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID. BUT THAT IS NOT THE CRIMINAL STANDARD, IS 
          [03:05:05]
IT? I MEAN, YES, THAT'S THE PERJURY IS THAT IS ACTUALLY THE DEFINITION OF PERJURY IN THE STATUTE ITSELF. I CAN BRING IT UP. LIKE THAT SETTING THAT ISSUE ASIDE AND WE CAN BRING UP THE KENTUCKY REVISED STATUTE THAT WAS CHARGED WAS PERJURY. I BELIEVE IN THE FIRST DEGREE WHICH REQUIRES FALSE STATEMENT THAT IS MATERIAL AND THAT WAS THAT THE PERSON WHO'S WHO SPOKEN DID NOT BELIEVE TO BE TRUE. THOSE ARE THE THREE FOUNDATIONAL ELEMENTS FOR PERJURY IN THE FIRST DEGREE. SO WITH REGARD TO THE OTHER TWO. AND AGAIN. I MEAN , I WAS PUTTING THIS TOGETHER LATE LAST NIGHT, BUT THE OTHER TWO CHARGES AND I DID NOT INCLUDE WAS COUNT THREE AND COUNT. UH EIGHT OR SEVEN. THE HONEST HONEST SERVICES, FRAUD AND, UH, THE I THINK IT WAS THE OBJECT, UH, IMPAIRMENT OF OBJECTIVITY. THOSE WERE BOTH, UH SUBJECTS OF OUR MOTION TO DISMISS OUR SECOND MOTIONS TO DISMISS AND QUITE FRANKLY, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO CRAFT THOSE. 
          UH THOSE, UH, INSTRUCTIONS BASED UPON WHAT'S IN THE STANDARD ITSELF IN THE CODE OF ETHICS, WHICH AGAIN OUR ARGUMENT WAS IS NOT IS NOT COMPREHENSIBLE. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ACTUALLY CRAFT THAT AND NO NO PROPOSAL HAS BEEN MADE ON. TO DO THAT. SO I. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT YOU KNOW, AT LEAST AT FIRST BLUSH THAT I HAVE UM I DON'T HAVE A WAY OF DOING THAT, UH, I'D BE HAPPY TO LOOK IF THERE'S SOME PROPOSAL THAT JEFFERSON COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS THAT WANTS TO SUGGEST TO TRY TO MAKE SENSE OF THAT. OF THAT STANDARD, AND IT SORT OF THE SAME THING. THE HONEST SERVICES FRAUD, YOU KNOW, IS BASED UPON A FAILURE TO DISCLOSE WHICH YOU KNOW, WE'VE SAID, WELL, THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY A COGNIZABLE. UH, STANDARD UNDER THE APPLICABLE AND I UNDERSTAND THE COUNCIL COURTS RULED ON THAT . BUT I, I GUESS I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHERE TO GO WITH THAT. CONSIDERING THAT THERE'S ACTUALLY NO STANDARD THAT I'M AWARE OF THAT I COULD ACTUALLY DRAW FROM TO ARTICULATE WHAT IS THE LEGAL STANDARD THAT COUNCILOR PINI IS BEING HELD TO SO THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T INCLUDE. AND THAT WAS UNDERSTANDABLY THAT WE'D HAVE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT. I WASN'T TRYING TO HIDE THE BALL OR ANYTHING I WOULD, BUT I JUST I'M IN A POSITION WHERE I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO, YOU KNOW, DIVINE FROM THE STANDARDS AS I AS I READ THEM. WHAT EXACTLY TO SAY IT, UH, OR TO SUGGEST AT THIS POINT AND ONE OF MY QUESTION THAT REALLY THE LAW THAT THE COUNCIL COURT HAS DECIDING IS 67 C 0.143. RIGHT IT IS AND THAT IS MISCONDUCT AND AGAIN, IT GETS BACK TO THE DEFINITION OF MISCONDUCT, WHICH IS AND WE'VE YOU KNOW, WE'VE PROVIDED A DEFINITION THAT WAS BASED UPON THE INSTRUCTION THAT WAS PROVIDED DURING, UM A PREVIOUS, UH, REMOVAL HEARING, AND THAT WAS THE TRANSGRESSION OF SOME ESTABLISHED INDEFINITE RULE OF ACTION. A FORBIDDEN ACT, A DERELICTION, A DERELICTION FROM DUTY, UNLAWFUL BEHAVIOR, WILLFUL AND CHARACTER, IMPROPER OR WRONGFUL BEHAVIOR SYNONYMOUS WITH MISDEMEANOR MISDEED, MISBEHAVIOR, DELINQUENCY, IMPROPRIETIES, MISMANAGEMENT OFFENSE. NOT NEGLIGENCE OR CARELESSNESS. AND WHEN I WOULD SUBMIT IS THAT THAT SO THAT PROVIDES THE OVERALL FRAMEWORK FOR UNDERSTANDING MISCONDUCT AS A GENERAL CONCEPT, BUT WHAT IT ACTUALLY DOES, IS IT ACTUALLY YOU HAVE TO POINT TO A PARTICULAR DUTY. THAT HAS BEEN VIOLATED. SOME WERE SET OUT IN LAW THAT HAS BEEN VIOLATED IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH WHAT MISCONDUCT IS. AGAIN OTHERWISE THIS GETS BACK TO AN ARGUMENT THAT WE'VE MADE BEFORE. OTHERWISE WE'RE JUST ARBITRARILY CREATING A STANDARD TO SUIT A PARTICULAR SET OF FACTS THAT THE CHARGING COMMISSION CHARGING COMMITTEE EXCUSE ME WANTS TO REMOVE COUNCIL P ARGENTINIANS, AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, IT'S COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. IT'S COMPLETELY ARBITRARY. AND SO WE HAVE. WE HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL OBJECTION TO THAT. YOU'VE GOT TO ACTUALLY POINT TO A DUTY. THAT IS OBJECTIVE THAT IS KNOWN HAS BEEN PROMULGATED. IN ORDER TO IN ORDER TO APPLY THE FACTS TO SEE WHETHER THERE HAS BEEN MISCONDUCT. AND THEN I WOULD ADD, BY THE WAY. I MEAN THE COMPLAINT ITSELF. IN EVERY IN EVERY COUNT. SAYS THAT YOU KNOW, ALLEGES THAT THE FOREGOING ACTIONS CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF METRO ORDINANCE SECTION 21 02 A AND THEREFORE CONSTITUTES MISCONDUCT. IT'S IMPLIED. IT'S IMPLICATED IN THE COMPLAINT ITSELF THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE BASING. THAT'S THE STANDARD THAT WE'RE APPLYING. AND I HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WITH IF WE'RE GONNA JUST THROW ALL THAT OUT THE WINDOW AND WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS, WHICH BASICALLY JUST SAYS THE CHARGING COMMITTEE ALLEGES XY AND Z. AND ARE YOU SATISFIED FROM THE EVIDENCE THAT COUNCILOR P ARGENTINA'S CONDUCT AS ALLEGED 
          [03:10:03]
IN XY AND Z CONSTITUTES MISCONDUCT? WHAT IS THE STANDARD THAT WE ARE USING TO JUDGE THE FACTS AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THERE HAS BEEN MISCONDUCT? THERE IS NONE IN THESE IN IN MY OPINION IN THESE INSTRUCTIONS MR. WE? I THINK YOU'VE WRITTEN THEM JUST THE WAY THEY SHOULD BE WRITTEN. 
          THERE'S ONLY ONE STATUTE AT ISSUE IN THIS CASE. 67 C 143. THAT'S THE ONLY STATUTE AT ISSUE. SAYS THE COUNCIL MAY REMOVE HIM FOR MISCONDUCT. IT DEFINES MISCONDUCT. THAT'S ALL THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO DECIDE. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO DECIDE ABOUT THE INTRICACIES OF THE ETHICS ISSUES. THE ETHICS COMMISSION HAS ALREADY DECIDED HOW THAT COMES OUT. YEAH, THAT'S THEIR PROVINCE, NOT THE PROVINCE OF THIS COUNCIL. THIS COUNCIL HAS TO DECIDE ONLY ONE QUESTION. 
          WHETHER IT WAS MISCONDUCT OR WILLFUL NEGLECT, AND THEN WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE SHOULD BE, SO THAT'S THE WAY TO CHARGE IT. THOSE ARE THE LEGAL QUESTIONS THAT ARE COMMITTED TO THIS BODY. AND I THINK THE WAY THAT YOU'VE WRITTEN IT. IS JUST THE WAY TO DO IT. SO M WORKER IF I COULD ASK, UM AND I IN NO WAY. TELEGRAPHING A POSITION HERE. I'M SIMPLY ASKING GIVEN THAT, UM , EVIDENCE THAT YOU PUT ON YOU KNOW, I. I COULD PICK ANY ONE OF THE CHARGES, AND I WOULD SAY YOU SPENT SUBSTANTIAL TIME PROVING THAT ATTEMPTING TO PROVE THE CHARGE RIGHT? SO IF WE USE LET'S USE THE OPTIMIZED CONFERENCE AS AN EXAMPLE, RIGHT? IF THOSE AREN'T QUESTIONS BEFORE THE COURT WHY DID WE SPEND TIME? ARGUING THEM. BECAUSE THEY ARE QUESTIONS BEFORE THE COURT, BUT THE QUESTIONS ARE DID THESE ACTS CONSTITUTE MISCONDUCT? NOT THAT THESE ACTS VIOLATE THE ETHICS ORDINANCE. THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION BEFORE THIS COUNCIL. NOW. WE HAVE TO PROVE THE SAME SET OF FACTS BECAUSE THAT SET OF FACTS IS BOTH A VIOLATION OF A AN ETHICS ORDINANCE AND MISCONDUCT. BUT THE QUESTION ONLY THE ONLY QUESTION FOR THIS COUNCIL IS MISCONDUCT. AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO CONFUSE THE ISSUE BY SUGGESTING TO THEM THAT THEY'RE THEY'RE HERE TO DECIDE A DIFFERENT QUESTION. I WOULD JUST TAKE THAT PARTICULAR EXAMPLE THE OPTIMIZED CONFERENCE, RIGHT? UM THE COMPLAINT ITSELF, YOU KNOW, ALLEGES THAT YOU KNOW, IT'S CHARACTERIZED IN THE TERMINOLOGY OF COUNCILMAN P ARGENTI USED HIS OFFICIAL OPPOSITION TO OBTAIN, UH, IN AN UNWARRANTED BENEFIT OR PRIVILEGE IN THE FORM OF GOING TO THIS CONFERENCE, RIGHT THE ALLEGATION ITSELF. IS ACTUALLY DIFFERENT THAN THAT. RIGHT BECAUSE THE STANDARD UNDER THE METRO COUNCIL ORDINANCES, YOU KNOW, USE YOUR POSITION TO OBTAIN THIS UNWARRANTED. BENEFIT OR PRIVILEGE. THAT ENTAILS SHOWING THAT HE ACTED WITH THE INTENT. TO OBTAIN AN UNWARRANTED PRIVILEGE, BUT THEY ACTUALLY DON'T ALLEGE THAT IT'S THAT HE ACCEPTED IT WHILE HE WAS CONSIDERING. A GRANT PROPOSAL. 
          IT'S NOT THAT HE ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING IN ORDER TO OBTAIN AN UNWARRANTED PRIVILEGE SO AGAIN. 
          IT'S CONFLATING, OR IT'S CONFUSING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE STANDARD THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO HOLD COUNCIL. PINI TO THERE IS NO STANDARD THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO HOLD THEM TO. SO AGAIN , JUST STAYING ON THAT EXAMPLE RIGHT IS THE DECISION FOR THE COURT. OR I TRY TO ASK IT NOT AS A DOUBLE NEGATIVE, RIGHT? BUT ISN'T THE QUESTION FOR THE COURT? UM SORT OF ONE. DID COUNCILMAN P ARGENTINA EXCEPT AN INVITATION TO THE CONFERENCE, RIGHT AND THAT I GUESS, WITH THE ALLEGATION THAT HE WOULD NOT OTHERWISE RECEIVE, UM AND IF SO, DOES THAT RISE TO MIS MISCONDUCT? I THINK SO. THERE ARE FACTUAL QUESTIONS THAT HAVE TO BE DETERMINED BY THE COURT. 
          DID COUNSEL PAGNI ENGAGE IN CERTAIN ACTS? DO CERTAIN ACTS. UH YOU KNOW, IS THAT PROVEN BY THE EVIDENCE, BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO FILTER THOSE FACTS THROUGH AN ACTUAL LEGAL STANDARD TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT HE HAS VIOLATED A DUTY THAT COULD CONSTITUTE MISCONDUCT. AND THAT'S THAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT WE'RE WE'RE ESSENTIALLY OPERATING A RUDDERLESS SHIP. CAN I INTERRUPT YOU IN YOUR FILTER? IS THE ETHICS CODE RIGHT? BECAUSE YOU WOULD. PRESUMABLY IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR ARGUMENT, YOU WOULD ARGUE IF THE ETHICS CODE SAYS YOU CAN ACCEPT THINGS THAT 
          [03:15:02]
ARE WORTH $5000 RIGHT, THEN THIS WOULD NOT BE MISCONDUCT. IS THAT SORT OF A. I KNOW THE ETHICS CODE DOESN'T SAY YOU COULD ACCEPT THINGS FOR $5000 RIGHT, IT SAYS. WHATEVER IT SAYS, UM IS. WOULD THAT BE A I SO MY POSITION ON THAT IS THAT YOU HAVE TO EVALUATE THE CONDUCT THROUGH THE STANDARD THAT IS ACTUALLY CITED IN THE COMPLAINT WHERE THAT STANDARD IS, IS ACCURATELY STATED TO MAKE A DETERMINATION AND THIS COURT HAS THE ABILITY TO DETERMINE FOR ITS OWN, WHETHER OR NOT THERE HAS BEEN A VIOLATION OF THE OF THOSE STANDARDS, AND THERE'S SOME OF THEM ARE ETHICS STANDARDS. SOME OF THEM ARE, YOU KNOW, CRIMINAL STANDARDS. AND SO IT'S BECAUSE THE THIS COUNCIL COURT IS SITTING INDEPENDENTLY. IT CAN MAKE THOSE DETERMINATIONS ON ITS OWN, BASED UPON THE EVIDENCE THAT IT IS HEARD IN THESE PROCEEDINGS. MR WICKER. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT NOT TO GET PAST OUR SKIS HERE. UM, THE STATUTE. IS VERY SIMPLE. IT SAYS WILLFUL MISCONDUCT IN TWO OTHER, UH IT SAYS, MISCONDUCT OR WILLFUL NEGLECT. UM AND THERE'S NO STATUTORY BASIS TO IMPOSE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS OF PROOF. SO I THINK IT WOULD BE UM BEYOND THE CHARGE OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY. TO IMPOSE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS BEYOND WHAT THE STATUTE SAYS SO, MR WICKER IS IT YOUR CONTENTION THAT THE DEFINITION OF WHAT IS MISCONDUCT IS SOLELY AT THE DISCRETION? UM OF THE COUNSEL COURT AND IF 18 MEMBERS DEEM IT MISCONDUCT, THEN IT MUST BE SO. THE DEFINITION IS PROVIDED IN THE INSTRUCTIONS. WHERE IS THE DEFINITION PROVIDED IN THE INSTRUCTIONS. ON, UM. PAGE SIX. SO WE TELL THEM WHAT MISCONDUCT IS AND THEN THEY HAVE TO APPLY IT. WE DON'T GO. WE DON'T GO INTO WE DON'T GO INTO THEIR MINDS AND DECIDE HOW THEY APPLY THE FACTS TO THE LAW. BUT WE'VE WE'VE CITED TO THEM TO THE STATUTE. WE'VE QUOTED THEM TO THE STATUTE. WE'VE GIVEN THE DEFINITION OF THE IMPORTANT WORDS IN THE STATUTE. THAT'S ALL THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING. WE SHOULD NOT IMPOSE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS THAT THE STATUTE DOESN'T I, I THIS IS JUST A FUNDAMENTAL YOU KNOW, DISAGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE UH, AGAIN. I MEAN, IT'S IT SPEAKS TO DERELICTION OF DUTY, UNLAWFUL, DISHONEST, IMPROPER BEHAVIOR BY SOMEONE IN A POSITION OF AUTHORITY OR TRUST. I BELIEVE THAT IS PROVIDES THE GENERAL FRAMEWORK FOR ITS CONDUCT. BUT IT POINTS IT'S ONLY THE BEGINNING. PART OF THE ANALYSIS. 
          YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO POINT TO SOME SORT OF DUTY THAT HAS BEEN VIOLATED OTHER OTHERWISE. WHAT IS TO PREVENT? YOU KNOW THE COUNCIL COURT FROM SAYING, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW COUNCILMAN PIER ARGENTI SAT DOWN WHEN EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ROOM STOOD UP THAT THAT'S MISCONDUCT. 
          I MEAN, WE'RE JUST AND THAT IS ENTIRELY CONSISTENT WITH THE POSITION THAT THE CHARGING COMMITTEE HAS TAKEN THAT THAT THERE ARE ACTUALLY NO LIMITS WHATSOEVER TO GUIDE OR TO LIMIT THE, UH, THE DISCRETION OF THE COUNCIL COURT. I JUST THINK THAT'S FUNDAMENTALLY PROBLEMATIC AS A MATTER OF LAW. SO NOT MY POSITION AT ALL POSITION YOU STATED IN YOUR BRIEFS AGAIN, NOT TO NOT TO BEAT THIS. OPTIMIZE CONFERENCE INTO THE GROUND. OK BUT I FORGET EXACTLY WHAT THE VALUE OF THE TICKET WAS. LET'S SAY IT WAS $350. I THINK THAT'S ROUGHLY CORRECT, RIGHT? IF THE ETHICS CODE ALLOWED. FOR COUNCIL MEMBERS TO ACCEPT UM TICKETS UP TO $351 RIGHT. AND LET'S SAY THE TICKET WAS 350 AGAIN. I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS. IT'S BELOW WHATEVER THE STANDARD WAS WOULD ACCEPTING THE TICKET BE MISCONDUCT. NO. AND HERE'S WHY BECAUSE THE JURORS THE COUNCIL MEMBERS WOULD LOOK AT YOUR DEFINITION OF MISCONDUCT AND TRY TO FIT IT IN THERE. THEY'D SAY WAS THIS A DERELICTION OF DUTY? WAS IT UNLAWFUL, DISHONEST OR IMPROPER BEHAVIOR? NO BUT DOESN'T THAT REQUIRE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE UNDERLYING STANDARD IS? I MEAN, IF I YOU KNOW, I. I THINK IT PRESUMES THAT WE ARE EXPERTS ON THE ETHICS CODE, RIGHT? AND IF I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE STANDARD IS $349 350 DOLLARS OR $375. THAT SEEMS TO GO DIRECTLY AGAINST YOUR ARGUMENT THAT I DO HAVE TO HAVE SOME LEVEL OF, UM, INFORMATION ON WHAT IS THE STANDARD THAT DEFINES WHAT IS MISCONDUCT. I MEAN, IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU JUST MADE CO COUNCILOR SMITH. 
          [03:20:01]
IT'S MY BURDEN TO SHOW THEM WHAT THE DUTY IS. SO IF I'VE NOT SHOWN THEM THAT ACCEPTING THE TICKET WAS A VIOLATION OF THEIR DUTY. AND I'VE NOT PROVEN MY CASE. BUT THE LENS THAT WE VIEW IT THROUGH IS THE ONE THAT'S SET OUT IN THE STATUTE. AND MISCONDUCT IS WELL DEFINED. IN THE INSTRUCTIONS, AND THAT'S THE LENS THAT WE USE. TO EVALUATE THE CONDUCT. AND IF I'VE NOT SHOWN THAT THERE WAS A DUTY AND THAT IT WAS VIOLATED THEN THAT'S AN ERROR. THAT'S A FAILURE OF PROOF. NOT A, UM FOR REASON TO IMPOSE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS. IT IS NOT. IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ONE OF THE PARTIES TO DEFINE. WHAT IS THE LEGAL DUTY THAT A PERSON WHO IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS PROCESS IS SUBJECT TO THAT IS FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG. IT'S NOT FOR MR WICKER TO SAY WHAT WAS THE DUTY THAT COUNCILMAN PIACENTINI AGAIN? THE DUTY EXISTS SOMEWHERE IN AN OBJECTIVE IN OBJECTIVE AREA THAT HAS BEEN PROMULGATED SO THAT EVERYONE KNOWS IT. BUT WHAT HE WANTS TO DO IS HE GETS TO DETERMINE WHAT THE DY IS, AND THEN HE GETS TO HE GETS TO HOLD COUNCILMAN P ARGENTI TO WHATEVER STANDARD HE WANTS. THAT'S THAT'S FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG. THIS FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG IS AT ODDS WITH WHAT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS ARE, WHICH IS FOR THE COURT TO DETERMINE AND DECIDE WHAT THE LAW IS. AND TO TELL THE JURY. THIS IS THE LAW THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW. AND LET ME TAKE ANOTHER EXAMPLE. THE TWO COUNTS IN THE COMPLAINT ABOUT THE FAILURE TO DISCLOSE AND THE FAILURE TO ABSTAIN. AND THERE'S ACTUALLY ANOTHER ONE. I THINK IT'S COUNT THREE THAT TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ACTING WITH A FINANCIAL OR PRIVATE INTEREST OR FINANCIAL PERSONAL INTEREST, LIKE THOSE ARE TERMS THAT ARE IN THAT ARE IN THE ALLEGATIONS. WHAT IS A FINANCIAL INTEREST? WHAT IS A PRIVATE OR PERSONAL INTEREST? THOSE ARE IN THE ALLEGATIONS. THOSE ARE BORROWED FROM THE CODE OF ETHICS BECAUSE THEY ARE DEFINED TERMS. THEY MEAN NOTHING. UNLESS THEY ARE BORROWED FROM THAT STANDARD. 
          OTHERWISE, WE'RE LITERALLY MAKING IT UP AS WE GO. 01 OTHER POINT THAT I THAT I DO NEED TO MAKE NOT ONLY JUST ARGUING FROM A POSITION OF WHAT THE LAW SAYS, AND THAT IS PRIMARILY OUR OUR POSITION. I'M ALSO ARGUING THAT WITH THE APPROACH THAT WE'RE REQUESTING IS CONSISTENT WITH THE PAST PRECEDENTS OF THE COUNCIL COURT IN CONSIDERING OTHER REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS. IF YOU GO BACK TO THE PROCEEDINGS, THE JURY INSTRUCTIONS THAT WERE ISSUED IN THE PROCEEDINGS REGARDING COUNCILWOMAN SHANKLIN. THEY'D SPELL OUT. THE SECTIONS OF THE CODE OF ETHICS. THAT SHE WAS THAT THAT SHE WAS ALLEGED TO HAVE VIOLATED. TO GUIDE TO TELL THE MEMBERS OF THE JURY. THIS IS THE STANDARD THAT YOU WILL BE APPLYING. AND ALL WE'RE SAYING IS THAT THAT THE SAME THING SHOULD BE DE HERE? YEAH. SO MR WICKER IF I'LL USE THE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, UH OF, UM IS IT? YEAH OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, RIGHT? THE, UH EXAMPLE THAT MR SMITH OPENED WITH IF THIS WERE A CRIMINAL COURT, OK, AND WE HAD A LAYMAN'S JURY AND I WERE A JUDGE WOULD I JUDGE PROVIDE INSTRUCTION OF WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. OR WOULD I ALLOW THE PROSECUTION TO MAKE THEIR ARGUMENT OF WHAT IS OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE AND THE DEFENSE TO ARGUE? WELL THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY THE LAW. HERE'S WHAT'S OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE NOW, JURY YOU FIGURE IT OUT, OR WOULD THE JUDGE PROVIDE GUIDANCE ON THIS IS WHAT THE DEFINITION OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE IS. THE JUDGE WOULD RECITE THE STATUTE. AND FROM THE STATUTE. WOULD IN ELEMENT FORM. SURE WHAT HAS TO BE PROVEN. SO HE DOESN'T GO BEYOND THE STATUTE. TO EXPLAIN IN DETAIL WHAT CONDUCT CONSTITUTION CONSTITUTES OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE OR FIND SOME OTHER DUTY BELOW THAT. HE GOES TO THE STATUTE. AND HE PUTS IN THE JURY INSTRUCTION, THE LEGAL ELEMENTS THAT ARE IN THE STATUTE. WHERE'S THE. INSTRUCTION. 
          [03:27:18]
I APOLOGIZE. WHILE WE'RE SORT OF COMPARING MULTIPLE DOCUMENTS MENT. SO BEAR WITH ME JUST A MR SMITH. THIS WORD IF I COULD DO YOU HAVE THE DRAFT. INSTRUCTIONS THAT WE SENT YESTERDAY IN FRONT OF YOU. IF WE MIGHT LOOK AT JUST AS AN EXAMPLE PAGE 59. AND 60. BECAUSE I THINK THIS GIRL AS I UNDERSTAND, MR SORT OF TO THE HEART OF MISTER SMITH'S ARGUMENT, AS I UNDERSTAND IT SO PAGE 59 INSTRUCTION ON NUMBER 12 THIS DEALS WITH THE PERJURY CHARGE. 
          OK, SO THE INSTRUCTION IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARD TO FOLLOW, BECAUSE IT'S INSTRUCTION NUMBER 12, BUT IT RELATES TO COUNT SEVEN. THAT'S WHY THERE WAS ALL THE SHUFFLING OF THE PAPER TRYING TO FIND WHERE WHAT WAS BUT INSTRUCTION NUMBER 12, THE CHARGING COMMITTEE ALLEGES THE COUNCIL MEMBER AND RESPONDENT ANTHONY PINI, KNOWINGLY AND FALSELY MADE MATERIAL MISSTATEMENTS WHILE TESTIFYING UNDER OATH BEFORE THE ETHICS COMMISSION THAT HE DID NOT ENGAGE WITH THOSE, UH, THOSE WITHIN CEO C, UH, WHO WERE EXECUTING THE GRANT AWARDED BY METRO GOVERNMENT, NOR DID THEY EXECUTE ANY PART OF THE GRANT? AND HE DID NOT KNOW THE REASON WHY CEO COUNSEL TAM YORK SENT HIM THE NO DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT ON NOVEMBER 17TH SO THAT SORT OF LAYS OUT THE ALLEGATION. IT SOMEWHAT TOUCHES ON THE LEGAL STANDARD, RIGHT? IT DOES ADDRESS THAT UM, HE MADE A FALSE STATEMENT IT DOES ADDRESS THAT THE STATEMENT WAS MATERIAL. UM 
          [03:30:03]
IT LEAVES OUT SEA, WHICH IS THAT HE DID NOT BELIEVE THE STATEMENT WHEN HE MADE IT, SO IT'S SORT OF PARTIALLY ADDRESSES IT. BUT SOMEWHAT PROBLEMATICALLY IN MY MIND ON THE NEXT PAGE 60, WHICH IS THE ACTUAL INTERROGATORY FOR THE JURY. UM IT SAYS, DO YOU FIND FROM THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED THAT PURSUANT TO KR 67 143 MR P. ARGENTINA'S ACTIONS AS OUTLINED IN INSTRUCTION NUMBER 12 CONSTITUTE MISCONDUCT, SO IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY ASK. TO CONTEMPLATE. DID HE DO WHAT IS ALLEGED IN 12 OR NOT? IT SIMPLY ASKS. SO IT SEEMS TO LEAVE OUT A PIECE IN MY OPINION. WELL AGAIN. 
          I THINK THIS SORT OF ENCAPSULATES MAYBE I COULD CHARACTERIZE AS THE TWOFOLD PROBLEMS HERE. ONE IS FIRST OFF. WE'RE WE'RE REGURGITATING. WHAT ARE THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST COUNCILMAN TINI IN THIS DOCUMENT ? IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN SENDING THE COMPLAINT BACK INTO THE JURY ROOM, WHICH DOESN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE THEN THAT GIVES UNDUE WEIGHT TO THE COMPLAINT. RIGHT MR MR WICKER CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENTS AS TO WHAT THE ALLEGATIONS ARE AND WHETHER THEY PROVE MISCONDUCT AND WHILE YES, THERE ARE HINTS IN TERMS OF WHAT ARE THE ELEMENTS OF PERJURY? UM I, I TH I THINK THE PRACTICE IS AND BASED UPON THE CASE LAW THAT I STARTED TO, UH, THAT I CITED AT THE TOP OF THIS DISCUSSION WAS THAT YOU IN ORDER TO BELIEVE THAT THE CHARGING COMMITTEE HAS MET ITS BURDEN OF PROOF AND THAT IS ONE COUNCILMAN P ARGENTI MADE A MADE A FALSE STATEMENT TO THAT THAT FALSE STATEMENT WAS MATERIAL RIGHT MATERIALITY IS DEFINED ELSEWHERE IN KS CHAPTER 522 AND THAT HEARD. THAT HE DID NOT BELIEVE THAT STATEMENT WHEN HE MADE IT. 
          THOSE ARE THE THREE ELEMENTS OF PERJURY. AND SO THAT'S THE SORT OF THAT'S THE FRAMEWORK THAT WE'RE USING TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE MET THEIR BURDEN OF PROVING MISCONDUCT BY ALLEGING PERJURY. AND THEN DOES THAT RISE TO THE LEVEL? DOES THAT THEN VIOLATE 67 C 143 CONDUCT THAT CONSTITUTES A TWOFOLD QUESTION. I THINK YOU COULD COLLAPSE THEM INTO A INTO A SINGLE NOTE IS THE LET ME SEE HOW I SAID IT IN MY RIGHT. I MEAN, ONE WOULD ONE WOULD ARGUE THAT IF THE ANSWER TO THE FIRST ONE IS NO, THE ANSWER TO THE SECOND ONE BY DEFAULT HAS TO BE NO, RIGHT. I MEAN, IF THE ALLEGATION IS YOU COMMITTED PERJURY AND PERJURY AND MISCONDUCT IF YOU DID NOT COMMIT PERJURY, THEN CORRECT. THAT'S THE FIRST IT IS A NEGATIVE, RIGHT, UM HOWEVER, THE ULTIMATE QUESTION THAT THE COUNCIL COURT WOULD BE DECIDING. YES YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE STANDARD IS FOR PERJURY TO DECIDE. DO YOU BELIEVE COUNCILOR PIAGET COMMITTED PERJURY? UM MAYBE THAT'S NOT A GREAT EXAMPLE. BUT THE SECOND QUESTION THEN WOULD BE IS PERJURY MISCONDUCT, RIGHT? UM WHICH IS ULTIMATELY THE DECISION THAT THE COURT WOULD UM, I. I AGREE THAT I ROGATORY NUMBER 15 NEEDS TO BE EDITED A BIT TO TAKE AWAY ANY PRESUMPTION THAT THE CHARGES ARE PROVEN BECAUSE THERE ARE CHARGES SO I WOULD WORK WORDSMITH THAT A LITTLE BIT, BUT I THINK THE ULTIMATE FOCUS HAS TO BE ON WHAT'S IN THE STATUTE, AND THAT'S MISCONDUCT. BUT I SEE THE POINT FOR THAT. CONSTRUCTION YEAH, I THINK THAT HOLDS FOR BOTH OF THE CHARGES THAT WERE ADDED THAT SORT OF TO EXPAND ON THE ARGUMENT, MR SMITH, UM SO I THINK I AND LEANING TOWARDS SUPPORTING YOUR ARGUMENT FOR THE TWO CRIMINAL CHARGES THAT WERE ADDED, BECAUSE THOSE HAVE NOT BEEN ADJUDICATED, RIGHT AND, QUITE FRANKLY, MAY NEVER BE ADJUDICATED. I'M NOT MAKING ANY SORT OF ASSESSMENT HERE SIMPLY SAYING THAT THESE ARE NET NEW HAVE NOT PREVIOUSLY BEEN DISCUSSED. I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THE REST OF MR WICKER'S ARGUMENT IS THAT THE OTHER ONES HAVE RIGHT AND THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ADJUDICATED AS MR SWANS AGREED IN FRONT OF THE BODY THAT REALLY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR, AND I KNOW THAT THERE'S A PENDING APPEAL. 
          UM, HOWEVER, THE HEARING HAS HAPPENED, RIGHT? AND SO, UM IS THERE A NEED? SPELL THAT STANDARD OUT AGAIN. UM AND IF SO, WHY, UM OR AS I THINK MR WICKER'S ARGUMENT IS THE QUESTION. WELL, THOSE HAVE BEEN ADJUDICATED YOUR QUESTION. THE QUESTION FOR THE COURT NOW IS SIMPLY TO DETERMINE WHETHER EACH OF THOSE OR ANY ONE OF THOSE, UH, IS MISCONDUCT RIGHT? BECAUSE I THINK IT'S AGAIN. I DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC NEIGHBOR HERE. BUT IT IS CONCEIVABLE THAT SOMEBODY COULD SAY WELL, YES, HE WAS FOUND GUILTY OF THIS, BUT, UH, MAYBE IT'S NOT QUITE MISCONDUCT, RIGHT VERSUS DISCHARGE. OH, YEAH, THIS REALLY IS. MISCONDUCT. NO, ABSOLUTELY I ABSOLUTELY YOU HAVE TO SPELL OUT SPELL THAT OUT, AND THIS BODY GETS TO MAKE THE INDEPENDENT 
          [03:35:03]
DETERMINATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A VIOLATION. THE ETHICS COMMISSION PROCESS IS SEPARATE. IT HEARD EVIDENCE, BUT IT DIDN'T HEAR ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT THE BODY HAS HEARD IN THESE PROCEEDINGS AND ACTUALLY GETS BACK TO YOUR POINT EARLIER, WHICH IS WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? IF WE'RE JUST GOING TO TAKE THE ETHICS COMMISSION'S RUBBER STAMP THEM AND THEN YOU KNOW, SHOVE COUNCILMAN PIN ON HIS WAY. WE ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH A WHOLE PROCESS, IN PART BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WAS REQUIRED BY 67 C 143 TO GRANT HIM A FULL PUBLIC HEARING COUNSEL FOR THE CHARGING COMMITTEE EVEN SAID, I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ADOPT THE FINDINGS. 
          YOU CAN CONSIDER THEM, BUT HE WAS QUITE EXPLICIT BY SAYING YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT. AND HE SAID, I WOULD NEVER SUGGEST THAT YOU HAVE TO DO THAT. THIS BODY SITS AS AN INDEPENDENT BODY. IT CAN IT CAN AGREE WITH THE ETHICS COMMISSION. IT CAN COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH THE ETHICS COMMISSION. THOSE THOSE DETERMINATIONS ARE NOT BINDING ON THIS BODY. AND SO YES, YOU HAVE TO SPELL OUT WHAT ARE THE STANDARDS THAT HE'S ALLEGED TO VIOLATE? AND THEN WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF DETERMINING AND ARGUING, YOU KNOW, DID THE PROOF PROVE A VIOLATION OF THOSE STANDARDS IN THIS PROCEEDING? YEAH SO, MR WICKER, IF I CARRY THAT ARGUMENT, FORWARD, UM WOULDN'T IT BE THE CASE THAT FOR ANY REMOVAL HEARING BEFORE THE COURT . IF I, I THINK IF I SORT OF PIGGYBACK OFF OF, UM MR SMITH'S ARGUMENT THAT IF THE ETHICS COMMISSION FINDS SOMEONE GUILTY, ANY SUBSEQUENT COUNCIL COURT MATTER THE ONLY ARGUMENTS THAT WOULD BE MADE ARE NOT WHETHER THE PERSON VIOLATED IT OR NOT, BUT ONLY WHETHER THAT CONDUCT CONSTITUTES MISCONDUCT OR WILLFUL NEGLECT OR NOT. AND THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY EVIDENCE THAT WOULD BE GERMANE. TO ANY HEARING BEFORE THE COURT. WE I THINK THAT'S THAT'S THE CASE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THERE WAS AN ETHICS COMMISSION HEARING AT ALL. THE ONLY QUESTION THAT THE STATUTE GIVES THE COUNSEL COURT THE AUTHORITY TO ANSWER IS ABOUT MISCONDUCT AND WILLFUL NEGLECT. 
          WHAT HAPPENED IF THE ETHICS COMMISSION UM, DOESN'T ADD NEW ELEMENTS OF PROOF. SAY IT NEVER HAPPENED. UM WE COULD COME IN AND PUT ON THAT PUT ON THE EVIDENCE. AND ARGUE TO THE TO THE COUNCIL THAT WHAT THE RESPONDENT DID WAS MISCONDUCT. WE COULD HAVE LEFT THE ENTIRE ETHICS PROCEEDING OUT OF IT. BECAUSE THERE'S NO THERE'S NO BASIS IN THE STATUTE. TO IMPOSE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS. SO I AGREE THAT YOU COULD COME AND ARGUE IF NO ETHICS ACTION EVER ETHICS COMMISSION ACTION HAD EVER BEEN TAKEN THAT YOU COULD COME AND ARGUE, MISCONDUCT, I GUESS WHAT STRUGGLE WITH IS IF THAT WERE THE CASE. I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU WOULD COME AND ARGUE. 
          SIX COUNTS THAT MIRROR. UM THE ETHICS CODE ETHICS CODE VERBATIM. I. I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. I AGREE. BUT BUT THE QUESTION IS HOW TO HOW TO PUT THIS TO THE COUNCIL COURT. UM, IN A WAY, ONE THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND. UM, AND IT'S NOT SO COMPLICATED AND CONVOLUTED THAT ANY MEANING IS LOST. UM. AND IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T GO BEYOND THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE STATUTE. AND THAT'S THE CHALLENGE IN WRITING ANY INSTRUCTIONS. AND THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT THERE'S ACTUALLY IT'S ACTUALLY ENTIRELY IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE COURT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ALLEGATIONS WHAT THE STANDARD IS OF MISCONDUCT. THAT COUNCILMAN P ARGENTI IS BEING HELD TO BECAUSE IT'S NOWHERE SPELLED OUT OTHER THAN IN A BROAD DEFINITION OF MISCONDUCT. UNTETHERED. TO A STANDARD SET FORTH IN LAW SOMEWHERE. 
          I MEAN AND AGAIN. WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HAPPENED. IN PRIOR PROCEEDINGS. 
          PRIOR PROCEEDINGS DIDN'T JUST COME IN AND SAY. ALL RIGHT ETHICS COMMISSION MADE A DECISION. THIS RUBBER STAMP IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. THIS BODY. RECEIVED EVIDENCE. HEARD ARGUMENTS FROM COUNSEL. AND THEN MADE AN INDEPENDENT DETERMINATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT STANDARDS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED. AND WHETHER SOMEONE SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE. 
          [03:40:11]
ANY OTHER COMMENTS, MR WICKER? NO, I THINK WE'VE GONE OVER THIS, UM IN SOME EFFICIENTLY. 
          UH, MISTRESS SMITH. I THINK THAT'S IT FOR NOW. I MEAN AGAIN. I GUESS IT'S PART AND PARCEL OF THAT IS AGAIN GETTING BACK TO SOME OF THE DEFINITIONS THAT WERE USED. THAT WAS ACTUALLY WHERE THE LAST THING I WAS GONNA GO TO IS, I THINK THEY'RE YOU PRESENTED A DIFFERENT DEFINITION OF MISCONDUCT AND WILLFUL NEGLECT. RIGHT THAT WAS AND THAT WAS TAKEN FROM, UH, AGAIN A PRIOR PROCEEDING. DEFINITION MISCONDUCT. THERE WAS FROM A PRIOR PROCEEDING, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOU KNOW SPECIFIC IN TERMS OF WHAT MISCONDUCT ENTAILS. UM, I MEAN, I THINK THAT I THINK THAT THE DEFINITION THAT WAS PROVIDED. I THINK IT IT DOES PROVIDE THE BASIS TO DETERMINE THAT LOOK. THERE HAS TO BE SOME SORT OF LEGAL STANDARD THAT WE'RE APPLYING HERE IS NOT JUST SOME AIRY, YOU KNOW, PULL OUT OF THE SKY OCEAN. I JUST THINK THAT THIS WAS A MORE PRECISE AND FULSOME DEFINITION OF WHAT OF WHAT WAS CONDUCT MEANS AND IT'S ONE THAT THE BODY HAS USED IN THE PAST. UH SO THAT'S WHY WE PROPOSED IT, UM THERE WERE A COUPLE OTHER ONES THAT WE PROPOSE IN THERE AGAIN BECAUSE OF THE SPECIFIC REFERENCES TO FINANCIAL INTEREST IN KEEP GETTING IT MANGLED BUT PRIVATE INTEREST, WHICH AGAIN ARE TERMS OF ART, DEFINED TERMS FROM THE CODE OF ETHICS. AND IF WE'RE USING THOSE TERMS, THEN WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM THE MEANING THAT THEY ARE DUE IN LAW. ANY OTHER COMMENTARY. AGAIN. JUST JUST WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT AGAIN. WE WOULD, UH, YOU KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STANDARDS, BUT WE WOULD ALSO OBJECT TO THE RECITATION OF THE OF THE ALLEGATIONS IN THE COMPLAINT ITSELF. I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT POINT THAT THAT THOSE SHOULD BE REMOVED. MR. WICKER IS FREE TO ARGUE THOSE IN HIS CLOSING STATEMENT, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE. I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY QUITE PREJUDICIAL FOR THEM TO GET TO THE IMPRIMATUR OF THE COURT IN PRESENTING THOSE ALLEGATIONS TO THE JURY, SO I JUST WOULD MAKE THAT POINT. SO JUST TO SUMMARIZE MY UNDERSTANDING RIGHT IN IN LIEU OF THAT YOU WOULD WANT SO JUST AS AN EXAMPLE. HERE RIGHT COUNT ONE IMPROPERLY SOLICITING OR ACCEPTING PROMISE OF EMPLOYMENT OR OTHER THING OF VALUE. UM AND THEN YOU WOULD WANT THAT TO CITE THE METRO CODE OF ORDINANCE, UM, THAT IT SPECIFICALLY RELATES TO. I MEAN, YOU COULD PROBABLY IMPROVE MY INSTRUCTION. UM IF I CAN BE SO HUMBLE AS TO SUGGEST THAT, UH IF YOU WANNA DECIDE A REFERENCE TO YOU KNOW HE VIOLATED RESPONDENT WAS GUILTY UNDER COUNT ONE OF THE COMPLAINT OF IMPROPERLY SOLICITING OR ACCEPTING A PROMISE OR EMPLOYMENT OF THING OF VALUE. YOU KNOW, IN VIOLATION OF METRO METRO. THERE IS A SPECIFIC ORDINANCE THAT CITED IN THE AND I THINK THAT'S REFLECTED HERE. I MEAN, I GUESS YOU COULD. 
          IF YOU WANTED TO REFER SPECIFICALLY BACK BECAUSE I WE DO INCLUDE THE ACTUAL STANDARD SET FORTH IN THE IN THE, UM THE CODE OF ETHICS SO THAT FOR REFERENCE PURPOSES, THE MEMBERS OF THE COURT COULD SAY OK, WE KNOW WE'RE WE KNOW FOR A FACT THIS IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. 
          WE'RE LOOKING AT 21 02 B HERE, I. I THINK THAT WOULD HELP IMPROVE THE CLARITY. WHAT I TRIED TO DO IN IN THESE IS TO IS TO PROPOSE WHAT I UNDERSTAND TO BE THE ACTUAL ELEMENTS OF THOSE STANDARDS. AND SO AGAIN, THERE IS A NOD TO THE IDEA THAT THE CHARGING COMMITTEE HAS ALLEGED THAT COUNCILMAN PITI HAS, YOU KNOW, UH, HAS HE HAD, UH, IMPROPERLY SOLICITED OR ACCEPTED A THING OF VALUE RIGHT? THAT'S BAKED INTO THE INSTRUCTION WITHOUT RECOUNTING AND AGAIN, I WOULD ARGUE, PLACING THE THUMB ON THE SCALE OF WHAT THE SPECIFIC ALLEGATIONS ARE. THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR COUNSEL TO MAKE IN CLOSING STATEMENT NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THE COURT TO SAY YOU KNOW HERE. HERE ARE THE SPECIFIC FACTUAL ALLEGATIONS. ANYTHING ELSE, MR WICKER? I THINK I'VE MADE MY POSITION CLEAR. THANK YOU. I THANK YOU BOTH. UM, WE WILL. UM FINALIZE THESE INSTRUCTIONS SHORTLY AND SEND THEM BACK OUT. UM WE WILL WORK WITH THE CLERK AND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL COURT TO DETERMINE UM HOW QUICKLY AND WE WILL ENCOURAGE ALL MEMBERS OF THE COURT TO PRIORITIZE, UH, AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. GETTING IN THE ATTESTATION, UH, ANTICIPATE THAT, UM, PROBABLY NO LATER THAN TOMORROW. UH, THAT I WILL HAVE A TIMELINE. UM, GIVEN THOSE RESPONSES AND MR SMITH TO YOUR POINT AND YOUR CONCERNS? UM WE WILL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO GET THIS MATTER RESOLVED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU BOTH, UH ANY FURTHER 
          [Adjournment]
          [03:45:04]
COMMENTARY? NO, JUST TO MAKE SURE WE'RE EXCUSED FOR THE DAY, RIGHT? YOU ARE DONE FOR THE DAY COURT IS ADJOURNED. THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.